How long are you really a Reserve in the East?

[WCT]

Most Junior Line Holder Reports

This report is updated after each Primary & Secondary line closing. It is always accessible from the Forms & Publications Menu.
July 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
173
4626
49120
19-Feb-96


CLT
1029
3021
61385
27-Jul-87 Non-Lodo

DCA
283
4150
37359
10-Jul-89

LGA
148
5211
89111
27-OCT-98


PHL
1922
4351
41702
15-Jan-90
Non-Lodo

PIT
258
1312
13210
27-Apr-81


August 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder
BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
173
4587
49073
19-Feb-96


CLT
1016
2998
21923 06-Jul-87
Non-Lodo
DCA
292
4274
39525 18-Sep-89


LGA
150
5194
89072 27-Oct-98


PHL
1983
4475
46224 24-May-93
Non-Lodo

PIT
265
1321
13333 01-Jun-81



September 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
172
4559
49073
19-Feb-96


CLT
1002
2940
63643
29-Jun-87
Non-Lodo

DCA
280
4061
75358
03-Jul-89


LGA
142
5047
84733
12-Jul-98


PHL
1943
4385
45321
16-Nov-92
Non-Lodo

PIT
284
1424
13595
09-Nov-81

WOW!! That sums things up! Why does it take that long to be a Primary block holder?! That is crazy. You would never see things that way in PHX base! And I hope to God it will never be that way either. I only have 10+ years seniority in the West. I can't imagine going back on RSV... Scary, if we negotiate a joint contract that would allow that?! I hope Phoenix remains junior in the long run. :huh: FENCE anyone?

 

[theFLYonthewall]

WOW!! That sums things up! Why does it take that long to be a Primary block holder?! That is crazy. You would never see things that way in PHX base! And I hope to God it will never be that way either. I only have 10+ years seniority in the West. I can't imagine going back on RSV... Scary, if we negotiate a joint contract that would allow that?! I hope Phoenix remains junior in the long run. :huh: FENCE anyone?

It stays this way because their is no movement from the top. There is no growth either. PHL is the only base that has an influx and that is because of all the seaonal flying to Europe beginning APR/MAY ending SEP/OCT.

CLT is getting some additional flying time, however at the expense of PHL. They are moving all of the 757/767 domestic time out of PHL and putting some of it into CLT. PHL will lose primary lines and CLT will gain primary lines.

Instead of a fence, can anyone say BUY-OUT?

 

[Zarah]

How many more lines could be created if there was no open time?

 

[WCT]

It stays this way because their is no movement from the top. There is no growth either. PHL is the only base that has an influx and that is because of all the seaonal flying to Europe beginning APR/MAY ending SEP/OCT.

CLT is getting some additional flying time, however at the expense of PHL. They are moving all of the 757/767 domestic time out of PHL and putting some of it into CLT. PHL will lose primary lines and CLT will gain primary lines.

Instead of a fence, can anyone say BUY-OUT?

So why are we training new fa's in PHX base? Are we trying to set an example, that we really need fa's at US? NO! We are so short staffed is such a farse! We have a lot of attrition, but they are not adding any additional flying out of PHX, so why are we hiring fa's? Add more RSV lines? I say, add more lines, blocks for the remaining fa's.
Makes no sense at all. IF all the additional fliying is being increased in Philly, why are they not hiring there? Good gosh!!? :unsure:

 

[EMBFA]

Again, they cannot hire until they recall thier existing F/As on the east. Technically there are almost twice as many F/As as there are actually active ones. Realisticaly, a few more small recalls might reach the bottom the involuntary furlough list, or April 2001, which if I remeber correctly from MDA was the last class hire date. If and when that happened, they would then have to begin recalling voluntary furlough F/As, which number in the thousands.

Stock up on new hires now, try and make them stay. When the work groups merge there will be no such thing. Any 'growth' will be recalls, all of which have minimum six years seniority. Keep in mind though that the company has stated that even with the aircraft order, a stand-alone US Airways would have the same amount of aircraft it does today- still smaller as a combined airline than pre 9/11 US Airways. Pretty lame, but it's highly doubtful that US Airways will be a stand-alone carrier anyway- something else to think about.

 

[N109UW]

How many more lines could be created if there was no open time?

Alot, but our union would never go for that. That is why most rsv's feel AFA sold us out on the last contract. Pref. Bid would have pretty much dropped all the open time for the bid sheet. So, put the new LTO system in and then let the Pref. Bid issue slide. Jerking all RSV's in the process.. Can you say, Thrown under the bus.

 

[WCT]

Again, they cannot hire until they recall thier existing F/As on the east. Technically there are almost twice as many F/As as there are actually active ones. Realisticaly, a few more small recalls might reach the bottom the involuntary furlough list, or April 2001, which if I remeber correctly from MDA was the last class hire date. If and when that happened, they would then have to begin recalling voluntary furlough F/As, which number in the thousands.

Stock up on new hires now, try and make them stay. When the work groups merge there will be no such thing. Any 'growth' will be recalls, all of which have minimum six years seniority. Keep in mind though that the company has stated that even with the aircraft order, a stand-alone US Airways would have the same amount of aircraft it does today- still smaller as a combined airline than pre 9/11 US Airways. Pretty lame, but it's highly doubtful that US Airways will be a stand-alone carrier anyway- something else to think about.

So why aren't they recalling them?? Why don't they offer a PHX base? We hired furloughs on the West almost 2yrs ago. Why are they hesitating bringing them back to PHL or PHX? What is the wait about?! I cannot believe you would have that many fa's on forlough, that wasn't offered there job back by now?!

 

[EMBFA]

The 1800 involuntary furloughees were offered the MDA division job, about a third took that offer. Two years later, the company outsourced the planes, they were dropped from the property like a hot potato, and the company and the union simply pretended the whole thing never happened.

Next they were offered a new hire position with America West, with thier seniority/dignity reclaimed upon workgroup merger. I think the numbers speak for themselves on this one. 1800 offered, 70 took the offer, I believe less than 20 remain just over a year later. Some did thier time until they were eligible for an east recall, but many simply left.

What is the wait about? Good question! We have had people on furlough for six years now. Mostly because the airline was literally cut in half. I'm not sure HP folks realize how large of an airline US Airways was pre 9/11. They had close to 400 aircraft and 11,000 flight attendants. Today they (east) have just over two hundred aircraft and just over 4000 F/As. Entire hubs have been pulled down- BWI, the Metrojet operation, PIT... The flying previously done by the F100, DC9, 737-200 and the E170 (when it was flown in-house) has now been outsourced to "Express" carriers. Add in the loss of extra staffing for service reasons- four F/As on a Shuttle flight, four on a 737, six on a 757, 14 on an A330 etc... today staffing is FAA minimum with the exception of lo/dos here and there. That lost a lot of positions as well. The company is chronically bad at staffing the airline- they are famous for either paying too many to sit around or cutting so much they have to cancel large parts of the operation. Attrition from retirements has all but stopped because there is no longer anything to retire to. The union has repeatedly shown they will sacrifice scope and thousands of jobs for what they believe benefits the very top percentile. Overall a perfect storm to make industry's most bizarre and pathetic seniority list- 20 year seniority reserves, 8 year seniority 'new hires'.

The east list is convoluted and confusing. The new company either doesn't understand it or is not interested in fixing it. Probably a little bit of both.

 

[WCT]

The 1800 involuntary furloughees were offered the MDA division job, about a third took that offer. Two years later, the company outsourced the planes, they were dropped from the property like a hot potato, and the company and the union simply pretended the whole thing never happened.

Next they were offered a new hire position with America West, with thier seniority/dignity reclaimed upon workgroup merger. I think the numbers speak for themselves on this one. 1800 offered, 70 took the offer, I believe less than 20 remain just over a year later. Some did thier time until they were eligible for an east recall, but many simply left.

What is the wait about? Good question! We have had people on furlough for six years now. Mostly because the airline was literally cut in half. I'm not sure HP folks realize how large of an airline US Airways was pre 9/11. They had close to 400 aircraft and 11,000 flight attendants. Today they (east) have just over two hundred aircraft and just over 4000 F/As. Entire hubs have been pulled down- BWI, the Metrojet operation, PIT... The flying previously done by the F100, DC9, 737-200 and the E170 (when it was flown in-house) has now been outsourced to "Express" carriers. Add in the loss of extra staffing for service reasons- four F/As on a Shuttle flight, four on a 737, six on a 757, 14 on an A330 etc... today staffing is FAA minimum with the exception of lo/dos here and there. That lost a lot of positions as well. The company is chronically bad at staffing the airline- they are famous for either paying too many to sit around or cutting so much they have to cancel large parts of the operation. Attrition from retirements has all but stopped because there is no longer anything to retire to. The union has repeatedly shown they will sacrifice scope and thousands of jobs for what they believe benefits the very top percentile. Overall a perfect storm to make industry's most bizarre and pathetic seniority list- 20 year seniority reserves, 8 year seniority 'new hires'.

The east list is convoluted and confusing. The new company either doesn't understand it or is not interested in fixing it. Probably a little bit of both.

So you are telling me 7000 fa's on the US side lost jobs, or are still furloughed??! Over 11,000 fa's and 400 a/c???????? I think you have your stats a little wrong princess! You guys were so huge, just like United and American, I just suddenly forgot that fact???! You were the biggest and greatest Transalantic carrier too, right? Man I fogot that US Air was so BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Piney, YOU know the real stats, will you please?!!! :blink:

 

[Zarah]

So why aren't they recalling them?? Why don't they offer a PHX base? We hired furloughs on the West almost 2yrs ago. Why are they hesitating bringing them back to PHL or PHX? What is the wait about?! I cannot believe you would have that many fa's on forlough, that wasn't offered there job back by now?!

The company does not think they need all of the invols back in PHL and they could only offer positions for PHX. Every invol was offered the chance to go to PHX. They cannot (at this time) force a recall to PHX. Therefore, PHX hires FAs.

I believe the transition agreement prevents EAST from having a PHX base same as it prevents WEST from having a PHL base.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Over 11,000 fa's and 400 a/c???????? I think you have your stats a little wrong princess!

Nope - the numbers are true......

About 420 mainline airplanes and 11,000 F/A's (and 6,000 pilots) when 911 occured. Down to about 220 planes, 4,000 F/A's and 3,000 pilots. Why did you think we had 18 year pilots on furlough and 20+ year F/A's on reserve?

Jim

 

[AstroLounge]

EMBFA, very good explanation of this convuluted, screwed up Seniority List of The Gulag. Also, what people need to remember prior to 9/11 is the fact that US had an International Division that allowed people to bid TA and lock them into the BID which usually lasted 12months. Essentially US was operating TWO airlines: One Domestic, One Int'l. A setup like this is VERY COSTLY and required a lot of bodies to STAFF it (BLHDR and Reserve). This multi division system allowed the airline to staff the a/c to compete in the Int'l arena against the likes of BA/AirFrance/Lufthansa, and they did a good job doing it. Under Wolf in the late 90's USAirways tied with Swissair (a benchmark of longstanding QUALITY service) for BEST in CLASS. When the Division was dismantled, and the East fleet reduced, Management had no choice to furlough and offer extended VLF along with BUYOUTS. With NO GROWTH in sight THIS Situation will not GO AWAY. Additional BUYOUTS would give some an incentive to leave but MONEY TALKS and for me (as well as others) the $10,000 package wouldn't even get My attention at this point.

 

[WCT]

Nope - the numbers are true......

About 420 mainline airplanes and 11,000 F/A's (and 6,000 pilots) when 911 occured. Down to about 220 planes, 4,000 F/A's and 3,000 pilots. Why did you think we had 18 year pilots on furlough and 20+ year F/A's on reserve?

Jim

With due respect Jim, can you prove the numbers??

 

[Travelpro72]

With due respect Jim, can you prove the numbers??

You are about to look pretty silly here shortly. What's the big deal?
Oh and let's not forget the md-80 in those numbers as well.

 

[lildutchgrl]

Those numbers are accurate. I remember the day I was a blockholder when we still had the aircraft staffed with 2 LODO's. Now we are down to 1. From the end of 1997 until September 2001 we continually had new hire classes, about 8-9 per year with approximately 100 f/a's per class. Many of those f/a's are still furloughed. Original furlough numbers went to about 1999. I'm not sure the exact recall numbers to date, but many are still waiting to come back. Some voluntary furloughs are planning on returning, but I don't know the exact number. I was once seniority number 9945. Now I am around seniority number 5300 (includes active and inactive).