How long are you really a Reserve in the East?

[SKY HIGH]

A condition with Trump was, if anyone who bought the Trump shuttle, the f/a's would get their Eastern senoirity date. There was only about 260 f/a's and if I am right, they were AFA.

sky high states: I heard about that condition, but it seemed strange. Eastern Airlines Flight Attendants were represented by TWU......NOT AFA.

Under Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in benefits, Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the IAM (International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers), went on strike March 4, 1989. A sympathy strike called by the pilots represented by ALPA (Air Line Pilots Assn.) and flight attendants represented by TWU (Transport Workers Union) effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were cancelled, resulting in lost revenue for the airline.


only stating opinions

 

[SKY HIGH]

<_< You mean YOUR schedule? The bid sheet is doing nothing for us! You have, what, 8 opportunities to change your schedule? We get ours a week before the month starts, and aside from NFL days, what you get is what you get.

I may be unpopular in this opinion, but I actually agree with Corpse Austin on the Shuttle issue. Donald Trump honored thier Eastern seniority, so that's the seniority they brought from Shuttle Inc. to mainline. I'm a strict believer in DOH, whether it's to my benefit or not- I expect DOH for myself so respect everyone else's, regardless of where they came from.

sky high states: And, you have several opportunities to improve YOUR seniority. Why dont you transfer to New York? You can almost hold a block there with your EIGHT years of seniority with this company. See, you have choices, but what your advocating is, taking away mine.

DOH?....Eastern Airlines and Trump Shuttle were two separate airlines. They began accruing THEIR TRUMP pay, TRUMP vacation, etc.........in 1989.



only stating opinions

 

[N109UW]

She had to bid twice? Poor OLD lady!!

Try bidding a rsv line 40 something times after 10 years and still getting NOTHING that you bid for.

And, I don't have 8 different ways to get what I want!!

And they wonder why reserves and others abuse their sick time for vacation!!!

I am only release from the prison yard 11 days a month to go home....yea that might happen!!!!!!!!

SICK CALLLLLLLLLL................bring it on!!!!!!!

Baked, I'm right there with ya. 18+ on RSV. I at least get my first choice of rsv lines. But I only average 45-52 hours a month. Can you say "Minimum guarantee" for the last 46 months. BS, shame on our union and the company.

 

[N109UW]

The integration of the Eastern/TRUMP Shuttle people is probably the breaking point where most people came to the conclusion they HAVE NO USE FOR AFA. There are many former Eastern employees that came to US on their own, started at Day One and EARNED their seniority. The TRUMP people were GIVEN theirs. B-I-G difference. Personally, I don't give a GD what Donald Trump may have stipulated, but AFA didn't need to lay down and sell the majority down river to placate this SELECT group of people. They chose to leave EAL and go with TRUMP.....and their seniority should have reflected a TRUMP date of hire NOT an Eastern D-O-H. Most people see it this way and this is one of the reasons MANY have little regard for the Union. I have no issues with any of the TRUMP people but how this situation was resolved did not help matters.

I saw it first hand, being based in DCA at the time of the aqusition of Trump shuttle. I saw the resignation letters and heard all the complaints from the former Eastern folks who were with US at the time. Those folks did resign from Eastern knowing that they would lose their senoirity and would go to the bottom of the Eastern list, however, they also resigned from Eastern knowing that if someone bought the Trump shuttle, their Eastern DOH would be honored.

 

[beachboy]

View attachment 6311

SUMS UP THE TRUMP SHUTTLE ISSUE. But hey they won the senority lotto fair and square

 

[EMBFA]

See, you have choices, but what your advocating is, taking away mine.

I have choices as a dues paying flight attendant with a vote. And I choose to vote for something that improves many people's work lives, rather than for an industry oddity that puts our quality of life far below our seniority peers at other carriers. I love ya Sky High, but your flexibility is not important enough to me for how it affects the rest of us.

It's pretty much a moot point, the bid sheet is gone no matter what or who our next contract is... talk about favoring a SELECT group of people... the magic of shoving half the airline on reserve is that it's half of the voting power, and the half more likely to vote. Add in HP or any other merger partner (all with a range of seniority, making me and my 'junior' friends mid-level seniority!) and you aren't going to find anyone who wants to switch to our stayem. A system in which only a small group have a schedule, albeit with luxurious flexibility, paid for by an outrageously high reserve staffing under a dranconion reserve system? I don't think so. Enjoy it for now, but I promise you it's gone. Even if the entire East F/A group wanted it- and they don't.

The apathetic, dismissive, even mean-spirited attitude towards "reserves" and the treatment of "junior" flight attendants doesn't help the blockholder's cause. Every flight attendant on this property has been around for at least 8 years, two bankrupcies, three contracts, and four management teams- dismissing them as somehow new or below general human dignity doesn't help the "Save the BidSheet for Sally and Patty" cause.

DOH?....Eastern Airlines and Trump Shuttle were two separate airlines. They began accruing THEIR TRUMP pay, TRUMP vacation, etc.........in 1989.
only stating opinions

Okay, so then using that logic, when we merge with say, United Airlines, will your United seniority start on the day of the merger? Or maybe they will look back and say Piedmont and USAir were two seperate airlines, you began accruing your USAIR pay, USAIR vacation etc... in 1989.

Trump honored thier EAL DOH. That is his business, good for him, and thier union protected that in case of another aquisition. USAir bought Trump Shuttle, and it's employees and contracts, and has honored thier published date of hire as they should.

Do you want a big bully of a merger partner undoing past decisions? If someone can randomly take a DOH away then it can just as easily be done to us. This airline could be pieced out, the Shuttle could be sold, a hub sold here, a fleet sold there... would you want your aquirer to honor your US seniority or would you volunteer to have your seniority start anew, as after all, you would no longer be at US Airways.

The people who resigned from Eastern? Hey, they rolled the dice. They had the same opportunity to go with the Donald and maintain thier seniority. They bet on Eastern, the others bet on the Shuttle. The Shuttle girls won. Sadly this industry is a crapshoot, it's all about the right place and the right time. You attach your car to a train and hope it's the right one. Thirty years ago I bet those Pan Am and TWA F/As looked invincible, and little podunk regional Allegheny Airlines didn't look like it would ever amount to much... funny how things work out.

 

[john john]

sky high states: I heard about that condition, but it seemed strange. Eastern Airlines Flight Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were cancelled, resulting in lost revenue for the airline.
only stating opinions

CWA gave the Passenger Service agents shuttle employees DOH

 

[WCT]

So are your secondary blocks worth bidding on, flying, or is it better to be on reserve? Also, how many years do you need to hold a reserve block in CLT?

Embfa I agree, they really need to bulid more block, and decrease RSV staffing in the East. If not, if you have a chance we welcome you here in PHX, at 8yrs you can hold a good line(block). That is if we keep our way of doing things out west, better schedules and more flexibility!

 

[USstew23]

So are your secondary blocks worth bidding on, flying, or is it better to be on reserve? Also, how many years do you need to hold a reserve block in CLT?

Embfa I agree, they really need to bulid more block, and decrease RSV staffing in the East. If not, if you have a chance we welcome you here in PHX, at 8yrs you can hold a good line(block). That is if we keep our way of doing things out west, better schedules and more flexibility!

A Secondary block is worth bidding on as it is better than being on RSV (unless you need the weekends off and you can't hold them with a secondary). Honestly I have seen the schedules out west and they are really no better (alot of long days and short nights) also every bit of that flexibility comes at the expense of those poor reserves out there who are not paid crap and have to endure a lousy contract (RSV section). I know alot of the people on the East complain about the RSV system but I can assure you that it is alot more liveable than that tragedy of a system out in PHX.

 

[WCT]

A Secondary block is worth bidding on as it is better than being on RSV (unless you need the weekends off and you can't hold them with a secondary). Honestly I have seen the schedules out west and they are really no better (alot of long days and short nights) also every bit of that flexibility comes at the expense of those poor reserves out there who are not paid crap and have to endure a lousy contract (RSV section). I know alot of the people on the East complain about the RSV system but I can assure you that it is alot more liveable than that tragedy of a system out in PHX.

Oh, I totally agree our reserve system is horrible out West. The plus is you aren't on very long compared to the East. We have a lot of sucky trips believe me, but we also have a lot of 2day back to backs. These trips are easy to get rid of in ETB, and a lot of our workforce drops down there hours to 40 a month. You might have to put money on them, but they go usually. Our ETB, and Trip trade with the company (DPU) is first come, first serve. When you want to change a trip it is automatic, instant. If you want to work a lot of hours, ETB, you pick up trips also first come, first serve and it is yours. No waiting. On vacation you can drop to 0 hours a month. And speaking of vacation, we get a HECK of more TIME out West! Something that needs to be addressed in joint negotiations. We aren't giving up our vacation, or 100% DH head pay either. Our payscales are terribly lower in the junior ranks, but a lot of our flexibliity in picking up hours, and days off go a long way!

 

[SKY HIGH]

EMBFA, I think you may be right. The bidsheet is probably gone. Like you, I came from another carrier and when I learned what the bidsheet could do, I was amazed at how flexible it could make your life. Granted, it works for the blockholder. But this airline became stagnant, no one's seniority moved, much less, you did your time on reserve and got off of it.
I gave the company.....my pay, benefits, vacation time, pension, etc.
I gave the west F/A's.......a good portion of my profit sharing.
Now, I'm being asked to give up my flexibility to an extend. And, once it's gone.....<sigh>..those girls who put they're blood, sweat and tears into our contract MANY years ago, put everything in there for the benefit to us. It WAS an industry leading contract. I HATE seeing page after page being RIPPED OUT. And now, sadly, we're watching EACH OTHER fight over the scraps.





Wish PITBULL was still around, would enjoy her take on our scheduling.

only stating opinions.

 

[N109UW]

So are your secondary blocks worth bidding on, flying, or is it better to be on reserve? Also, how many years do you need to hold a reserve block in CLT?

Embfa I agree, they really need to bulid more block, and decrease RSV staffing in the East. If not, if you have a chance we welcome you here in PHX, at 8yrs you can hold a good line(block). That is if we keep our way of doing things out west, better schedules and more flexibility!

Any f/a at US could bid rsv. Even the most senior f/a. There is no qualifier, just bid it and you got it. Rsv in CLT right now is about Mar/Apr 1989. If you think you might be a sec lineholder and you need weekends off, you might be better off bidding a rsv line. There are some who do that, until they can hold a better sec. line. For August, only 19 out of 288 rsv's in CLT broke min. guaranteeof 73 hours. The average is usaually about 45-52 hours, but working lots of days, due to the fact rsv's get 58 minute 1-day trips or 3 1/2 hour 2-day trips. Hopefully, that wil change in our next contract. If not, I'm sure there will be hell to pay. Pertaining to building more blocks, that would require losing the bidsheet. And out union will NEVER do that. They would rather sacrifice the rsv's, than do that(Oh wait, they already did that).

 

[N109UW]

e

 

[USstew23]

Oh, I totally agree our reserve system is horrible out West. The plus is you aren't on very long compared to the East. We have a lot of sucky trips believe me, but we also have a lot of 2day back to backs. These trips are easy to get rid of in ETB, and a lot of our workforce drops down there hours to 40 a month. You might have to put money on them, but they go usually. Our ETB, and Trip trade with the company (DPU) is first come, first serve. When you want to change a trip it is automatic, instant. If you want to work a lot of hours, ETB, you pick up trips also first come, first serve and it is yours. No waiting. On vacation you can drop to 0 hours a month. And speaking of vacation, we get a HECK of more TIME out West! Something that needs to be addressed in joint negotiations. We aren't giving up our vacation, or 100% DH head pay either. Our payscales are terribly lower in the junior ranks, but a lot of our flexibliity in picking up hours, and days off go a long way!

Yeah I've heard about DPU and think that would be the way to go in order to keep some flexibility and get rid of that stupid bid sheet. I know the lineholders and the senior people deserve some flexibility but to the extent that it is now is a bit extreme. Back to back 2 days would be nice, idealy I like a nice 3 day (if I lived in my base) but because of the commute and being on RSV right now I would prefer a 4 day and to be honest because of this lousy LTO system I could care less if the 4 day is only worth 16 hours, a high time 4 day is great but when you get back to base and go on duty again you just sit around until everyone catches up to the high LTO you have because of the high time trip. When it comes to the vacation and DH issue, I'm right there with ya, there is no reason for anyone to give up any of that, in fact the East used to have the same amount of vacation as the West. I looked at the West contract and I would have 24 days a year!!!! Instead due to the cuts I only have like 12 or 13 and as a matter of fact I'm not even sure.

 

[EMBFA]

EMBFA, I think you may be right. The bidsheet is probably gone. Like you, I came from another carrier and when I learned what the bidsheet could do, I was amazed at how flexible it could make your life. Granted, it works for the blockholder. But this airline became stagnant, no one's seniority moved, much less, you did your time on reserve and got off of it.
I gave the company.....my pay, benefits, vacation time, pension, etc.
I gave the west F/A's.......a good portion of my profit sharing.
Now, I'm being asked to give up my flexibility to an extend. And, once it's gone.....<sigh>..those girls who put they're blood, sweat and tears into our contract MANY years ago, put everything in there for the benefit to us. It WAS an industry leading contract. I HATE seeing page after page being RIPPED OUT. And now, sadly, we're watching EACH OTHER fight over the scraps.
Wish PITBULL was still around, would enjoy her take on our scheduling.

only stating opinions.

I understand completely Sky High.

Our contract was unique, it was great as it stood, but does not work with parts missing and replaced. We pretty much need to start from scratch this time.

A few things that need to be kept in mind (not that I think we'll have a USHP contract before another merger), these need to be the priorities:

* Job protection. Die hard merger and fragmentation protection. By far the most important thing. Without it we could go the way of the TWA F/As.

* Scope clause. Protect what we have, try to regain some, ditch the misguided pilots. The smaller the group, the worse our quality of life, and the weaker we are. The group has been decimated, and cannot be any further.

* This has to be a contract for the stagnant. If US remains standalone, there will be no growth. Where you are is where you'll stay. The contract needs to be fair to everyone at every level. The reserve system is antiquated and unrealistic for the year 2007.

* Pay. Pay is unliveable at the lower ends of both contracts. Profit sharing also needs to be stronger, things like 401(k) need to be matching. At the very least we cannot allow parts of our membership to be in poverty, and at least give F/As and opportunity to save for thier future.