AWA Alpa thread 11/2-11-8

[AAA73Pilot]

I have no answer that'll make both sides instantly happy. ........... I'm convinced that the best thing now possible is to rid the place of Alpo for starters.

Well said. I couldn't agree more!!

 

[cactus099]

Was it Nic's cruel hoax to create a precious list

Is that how EASTUS, Nostradamas, Phoenix, and all you Usapa boys looked after getting your Sept. 30 2005 pay check?

 

[EastUS]

Is that how EASTUS, Nostradamas, Phoenix, and all you Usapa boys looked after he got his Sept. 30 2005 pay check?

In appropriately simple-speak: WTF are you talking about?

 

[exB717Flyer]

I love how USAPA believes the next merger is a done deal. Next, we'll see them believing in the Tooth Fairy. Regardless, if there is a next merger I don't agree with USAPA's policy of DOH. I believe that the current ALPA Merger Policy is the fairest way to integrate two pilot groups, come what may. And yes, I said this long before Nicolau made his decision.

 

[EastUS]

I love how USAPA believes the next merger is a done deal. Next, we'll see them believing in the Tooth Fairy. Regardless, if there is a next merger I don't agree with USAPA's policy of DOH. I believe that the current ALPA Merger Policy is the fairest way to integrate two pilot groups, come what may. And yes, I said this long before Nicolau made his decision.

Then, in the future, be willing to cheerfully give your seat up to a new hire at UAL/Whatever, and always remember your "righteous position" at that time. Since you feel your years of service mean nothing..You may well expect the other group in the merger to fully agree with you.

I'm giving only my own opinion, but; I'd think another merger's a pretty good bet. As for "Alpa merger policy"...Ummm..All ears here: What really IS the "policy"?

PS: Can you even define "Alpa merger policy"? Can ANYONE? Even Alpo Notional seems utterly unable to do such in any clear terms.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Is that how EASTUS, Nostradamas, Phoenix, and all you Usapa boys looked after getting your Sept. 30 2005 pay check?

Say what? You lost me.... :huh:

 

[EastUS]

Say what? You lost me.... :huh:

I had to think a bit on that one. I believe it's another variation on the AWA "We saved you"..."so you owe us everything" theme. It's just been awhile since we've heard that one.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I love how USAPA believes the next merger is a done deal. Next, we'll see them believing in the Tooth Fairy.

Just to keep things in perspective, here again is the whole sentence.....

It is USAPA's belief (shared by many) that there is another merger coming. In fact, we believe the deal's already done.

There are a lot of subtle management moves going on that only come to light after the fact. Such as United people helping ours spec out the new airbus order for one. Why is that? Hey, USAPA can believe in the tooth fairy like you can believe in Santa Claus

Regardless, if there is a next merger I don't agree with USAPA's policy of DOH. I believe that the current ALPA Merger Policy is the fairest way to integrate two pilot groups, come what may. And yes, I said this long before Nicolau made his decision.

ALPA merger policy? What policy? So far its been guidelines, now process(es), it's only policy when it suits nationals whims and desires.

 

[N924PS]

In reviewing a backlog of posts, it occured to me that most of what is offered on these AAA/HP weekly topics is just week after week of the same posters defending their respective positions ad infinitum.

It really has become quite tedious and frustrating. While the same players continue to trade barbs, I will be taking a sabbatical from these topics for a while. At least until "the cards" are presented to the NMB for action or Brother John steps down from Mount Herndon with a cram down contract for all to vote on.

Continue ranting and raving in my abscence, as I know you will.

Regards,
N924PS

 

[traderjake]

Since you feel your years of service mean nothing..You may well expect the other group in the merger to fully agree with you.

Years of service does not mean nothing, but they do mean less than the job you brought to the merger.

Explain to us why you think the years it took you to hold a job means more than the job itself.

 

[nostradamus]

Look at what the east is doing for the other 54,000 airline pilots by doing all they can to perpetuate the lowest pay rates in the industry. I can just hear a managment type at any other airline, "If those USAir guys are willing to forego substantial raises, then that must be all an airline pilot is worth. And look, not a labor action in sight. I want some of what Parker's got!"

Industry-wide negotiating deadlock. Brought to you courtesy of U-SAPS. Where our motto is, "Let's keep the corruption just between U-S"

Your pilots (America West) scabbed, flew drugs and had the lowest pay and benefits in the industry, I guess that really has helped the 54,000 pilots that belong to ALPA.

You and your kind thought these despicable actions were ok when they furthered your pilots careers. We are putting principle before money, something that is not in your company culture. I have answered your very recent pay superiority with the following link quoting your pilots.

"They made their decision to work at USAir; I made mine to work at America West, which, by the way, has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S. The East pilots have been paid far and above what America West pilots have been paid over the same period of time doing the same job."
Click here for article

 

[Phoenix]

Is that how EASTUS, Nostradamas, Phoenix, and all you Usapa boys looked after getting your Sept. 30 2005 pay check?

The "precious" rings obvious effect has a scary similarity to the effect on some who cherish ALPA merger policy. :huh:

 

[700UW]

Your pilots (America West) scabbed, flew drugs and had the lowest pay and benefits in the industry, I guess that really has helped the 54,000 pilots that belong to ALPA.

You and your kind thought these despicable actions were ok when they furthered your pilots careers. We are putting principle before money, something that is not in your company culture. I have answered your very recent pay superiority with the following link quoting your pilots.

Pot meet Kettle.

And US pilots scabbed in 1992, cleaned planes during the 30 day cooling off period and during the Mechanic and Related Strike in October of 1992.

ALPA and US cut a secret deal to pay all pilots if ALPA did not honor the picket line.

So the pilots crossed the picket lines and scabbed. At least the company had to get a court order to order the AFA to come to work.

US grounded all the MD-80s, DC-9s, 737-200s, F100s and F28s, yet all pilots got paid.

If you live in a glass house don't throw stones.

 

[EastUS]

Years of service does not mean nothing, but they do mean less than the job you brought to the merger.

Explain to us why you think the years it took you to hold a job means more than the job itself.

OK: For starters no one "brought a job" to anything. Said jobs existed without any regard to the persons holding them, and were/are entirely dependant on staffing levels at any given moment. You make it sound as if any individual pilot could create, maintain, or otherwise "bring" any job anywhere. That's purely absurd. Ever go on vacation?, become ill? have any reason that prevented you from flying on any given day? Did "your job" that you "brought" evaporate?...Was it's existence even the least bit dependant upon you?.....Didn't think so. Spare me visions of AWA guys heroically dragging "jobs" up desert cliffs, by sheer force of magiificent will and determination. What any/all "brought" were themselves, and their professional skills and experience....period.

"Explain to us why you think the years it took you to hold a job means more than the job itself." Trade work tenure's generally an accepted principle pretty much anywhere outside of Alpo it seems. Regardless; kindly explain to me why years of service should count for nothing at all? There's no such thing as "years it took you to hold a job". The "job" started on day one, and isn't any issue of "holding"...it's an issue of experience and work performed in my mind. That said service and experience should be accorded at least some value's long been a basic tenant of any degree of civilization.

On what reasonable, and hopefully consistent basis, do you believe things should be organized?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Folks, I continue to watch with amusement how the CORE principles of unionism in general, and ALPA in particular have denegrated to unimaginable proportions. Here is how it will pan out at US Airways: (time will prove me right)

1. No international growth in PHX and LAS. (Kirbys latest AWA Pilot meeting)

2. Closure of the LAS base. (cost consolidation, much like PIT)

3. Shrinkage in PHX due to cyclical/leisure market base. (real estate bubble, subprime, high fuel costs)

4. Without a comparable cost contract on West with LOA 93 on East, the company will give flying to the East.

5. New hires will capture East vacancies by being hired on East, promised advancement, attrition, accelerated seniority and growth international while West new hires, if any, fill seats from attrition only, which isn't much.

6. New hires on East will have more value to the company due to business/international growth on Eastern seaboard (captured market PHL and Charlotte business growth).

7. Current East First Officers will be willing to capture pay loss by utilizing their Captain Qualified First Officer training (almost all have ATP, type rating in all equipment, First Class medicals) and can therefore transition from right seat to left seat in a short one week course.

8. East pilots will offer to fly as Captain on any of the equipment in PHX/LAS the AWA pilots will not fly because they are in Section 6 and will not work under LOA 93 as the East pilots will. In short, the East pilots will choose the long term over the short term.

ANY NEW HIRE PILOT WHO IS CONSIDERING WORKING FOR US AIRWAYS DO NOT GO TO WORK OUT WEST IF GIVEN THE CHOICE IN NEW HIRE CLASS. AS LONG AS THE TWO SIDES ARE SEPARATE, WHICH THEY CURRENTLY ARE UNDER ALPA, YOU WILL HAVE A CHOICE. YOU CAN ACCELERATE YOUR CAREER BY WORKING UNDER THE EAST SIDE AND CAPTURING GROWTH AND ATTRITION OVER THE WEST GUYS. THE EAST GUYS WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANY CONTRACT WITH THE SENIORITY AWARD IN IT. WHEN THE EAST COPILOTS ACCEPT CAPTAIN UPGRADES THEY WILL BE ABLE TO FLY WHAT THE WEST PILOTS DO NOT WANT TO FLY AND YOU'LL MOVE UP FASTER IN SENIORITY. EVENTUALLY THE WEST PILOTS WILL WORK FOR LESS TRYING TO KEEP THEIR SENIORITY BUT IT WILL BE TOO LATE....ALL THE GROWTH IS IN THE EAST. IT COMES DOWN TO GEOGRAPHY. BEST IN THE EAST, POOR IN THE WEST.

IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO WORK FOR US AIRWAYS, YOU BETTER NOT VOTE FOR ALPA BECAUSE THEIR MERGER POLICY STRIPS YOU OF YOUR SENIORITY AND YOU WILL GO BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST....GUARANTEED!!! BUT HEY, IT WILL BE YOUR CHOICE.

WHY? BECAUSE THE MAJORITY IS ON THE EAST SIDE AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WORK'S. IT'S SIMPLY A NUMBERS GAME. PLEASE DO THE MATH!

(please excuse the typos)