AWA ALPA thread 10/26-11/1

[EastUS]

We did that already my man, it's called ARBITRATION maybe you've heard, it was over back in May.

Given that "it was over back in May"....All's well for you out west then, and there's no apparent reason for your relentless tirades on these boards.

Given your evident concern over any/all future openings for 2008+ out east; It MAY actually be time for you to perceive that this is an ongoing process, fraught with serious problems, and one that will not be resolved by "righteous" ranting. I've certainly done more than my fair share of such to no avial.

You might wish to reflect on this little pearl of wisdom you recently offered:

"Have you learned nothing my son?? Must you make dumb decision after dumb decision?? I guess you are the type that has to learn life's lessons the hard way..."

 

[AAA73Pilot]

So did you send in your cards today or not?

In answer to your question: FYI



Dear fellow US Airways pilots,

My name is Mark Thorpe and I’m a Charlotte-based 757 First Officer; I am also the interim Vice-President for USAPA. You may recall that I and the other USAPA officers have been described in a Herndon communiqué as having agendas (we do – to gain better representation for US Airways pilots) and “self-appointed.†By their definition ALPA founder Dave Behncke was also “self-appointed,†so we’ll happily accept the slur from the Continental Captain.

I want you to know that USAPA has sufficient cards in hand to force an election. Nine out of ten active East pilots plus many LTD and LOA pilots have submitted their cards. Last month I encouraged my fellow USAPA leaders to commit to an NMB filing this month. While we clearly have the cards, information has found its way to us in the last week suggesting that the existing bargaining agent is delaying a move to place our MEC or one or more of our LECs into trusteeship until we file, as they don’t want to provoke an additional margin of submitted cards. We have also been advised to expect to see an artificially inflated pilot list provided by the Company to the NMB. With these factors in mind, I have asked my fellow officers to delay our filing until next week as I am very interested in seeing what may transpire from the Washington meetings. If you are still sitting on the fence, delay no longer – you are clearly being played by ALPA.

For the Charlotte pilots; please do not be harsh with Marshall, Lance or Lyle for their recent letters to you. I believe they have made personal determinations that trusteeship is not a good idea for them at this juncture and are doing what is required to avoid it. Their actions do not materially affect USAPA’s course.

We encourage our MEC members to hang together. Herndon must know that if one elected rep is “having a problem,†the entire MEC is “having a problem.†We do not want to see our elected reps divided, conquered and then hung separately.

We’ll file soon. In the meantime it will be interesting for all of us to watch events unfold at ALPA’s Washington “loyalty†meetings.

Take care,
Mark Thorpe
USAPA Interim VP

Comment: IMO I disagree with the politics. Told the powers that be it shouldn't matter. But as I've said before "All good things take time", now it also seems timing.

 

[AWA320]

Given that "it was over back in May"....All's well for you out west then, and there's no apparent reason for your relentless tirades on these boards.

You call this a tirade? No I call it presenting you the obvious acceptance and move on east aas you are only wasting your own time!

Given your evident concern over any/all future openings for 2008+ out east; It MAY actually be time for you to perceive that this is an ongoing process, fraught with serious problems, and one that will not be resolved by "righteous" ranting. I've certainly done more than my fair share of such to no avial.

Yes we have and some more than others East.

You might wish to reflect on this little pearl of wisdom you recently offered:

"Have you learned nothing my son?? Must you make dumb decision after dumb decision?? I guess you are the type that has to learn life's lessons the hard way..."

Oh but I have and I see only one way out that avoids more litigation. Accept and move on!!

 

[prechilill]

In answer to your question: FYI
Dear fellow US Airways pilots,

My name is Mark Thorpe and I’m a Charlotte-based 757 First Officer; I am also the interim Vice-President for USAPA. My goal is to capitalize on your emotional state at this time in our effot to lead all of us off a cliff while the opporutnity for significant gains in our quality of life and remuneration through a joint contract quickly fade as the economy enters a severe recession. I think you will accomodate well in living under LOA93 without payraises in face of 10%+ annual inflation over the next five years while we fight a binding arbitrated decision. This is in the best interest for us as a pilot group and the profession as a whole...

What did they say in Forest Gump? "Stupid is as stupid does..."

 

[AWA320]

In answer to your question: FYI
Dear fellow US Airways pilots,

My name is Mark Thorpe and I’m a Charlotte-based 757 First Officer; I am also the interim Vice-President for USAPA. You may recall that I and the other USAPA officers have been described in a Herndon communiqué as having agendas (we do – to gain better representation for US Airways pilots) and “self-appointed.†By their definition ALPA founder Dave Behncke was also “self-appointed,†so we’ll happily accept the slur from the Continental Captain.

I want you to know that USAPA has sufficient cards in hand to force an election. Nine out of ten active East pilots plus many LTD and LOA pilots have submitted their cards. Last month I encouraged my fellow USAPA leaders to commit to an NMB filing this month. While we clearly have the cards, information has found its way to us in the last week suggesting that the existing bargaining agent is delaying a move to place our MEC or one or more of our LECs into trusteeship until we file, as they don’t want to provoke an additional margin of submitted cards. We have also been advised to expect to see an artificially inflated pilot list provided by the Company to the NMB. With these factors in mind, I have asked my fellow officers to delay our filing until next week as I am very interested in seeing what may transpire from the Washington meetings. If you are still sitting on the fence, delay no longer – you are clearly being played by ALPA.

For the Charlotte pilots; please do not be harsh with Marshall, Lance or Lyle for their recent letters to you. I believe they have made personal determinations that trusteeship is not a good idea for them at this juncture and are doing what is required to avoid it. Their actions do not materially affect USAPA’s course.

We encourage our MEC members to hang together. Herndon must know that if one elected rep is “having a problem,†the entire MEC is “having a problem.†We do not want to see our elected reps divided, conquered and then hung separately.

We’ll file soon. In the meantime it will be interesting for all of us to watch events unfold at ALPA’s Washington “loyalty†meetings.

Take care,
Mark Thorpe
USAPA Interim VP

Comment: IMO I disagree with the politics. Told the powers that be it shouldn't matter. But as I've said before "All good things take time", now it also seems timing.

BLA BLA BLA BLA, more USAPA BS, never had it never will!

Next week will come a go but next time Bradford will deliver the "we are waiting speech" I was hoping for the showdown to start today but I guess they once again wussed out.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

AWA320

I guess you're right. Everything out there says USAPA doesn't exist.

Or does it? Maybe it's all an ALPA conspiracy by Prater to solve the problems. Bradford is really a figment of your imagination. Say what you will, believe what you want, the delays won't change the outcome one iota. But thats my opinion.

"All good things take time, now it seems, timing".

 

[AAA73Pilot]

What did they say in Forest Gump? "Stupid is as stupid does..."

Nice parody. I love propaganda, especially coming from an ALPA source. BTW. Nice repost. You think Doug will offer more than $122m? Cause it will take a lot more than that to get anything passed. Maybe even on the west side. Our parity then 3% for all.

 

[Tiger 1050]

In answer to your question: FYI


I want you to know that USAPA has sufficient cards in hand to force an election. Nine out of ten active East pilots plus many LTD and LOA pilots have submitted their cards. Last month I encouraged my fellow USAPA leaders to commit to an NMB filing this month. While we clearly have the cards, information has found its way to us in the last week suggesting that the existing bargaining agent is delaying a move to place our MEC or one or more of our LECs into trusteeship until we file, as they don’t want to provoke an additional margin of submitted cards. We have also been advised to expect to see an artificially inflated pilot list provided by the Company to the NMB. With these factors in mind, I have asked my fellow officers to delay our filing until next week as I am very interested in seeing what may transpire from the Washington meetings. If you are still sitting on the fence, delay no longer – you are clearly being played by ALPA.



Comment: IMO I disagree with the politics. Told the powers that be it shouldn't matter. But as I've said before "All good things take time", now it also seems timing.

Thanks for the info. It's nice to have all available information regarding this ordeal.

However these statements bring up two questions, one of which you alluded to...

1. If there are in fact "sufficient" cards why wait? Trusteeship would certainly lend itself to your cause, would it not? Seems more like the same old politics we currently see with ALPO.

2. Why the suggestion that the company plans to use subversive tactics to alter the outcome of an NMB investigation? More than likely the company would be just fine letting the pilot group rip itself apart (less work for them) over this fight for representation (read cheaper)... This notion of inflated lists is purely inflammatory. More politics...

Granted this is from my point of view which I'll admit is not one of fondness for USAPA, however I am trying to be as fair as possible. I am trying to be prepared for both possible outcomes. One with USAPA at the helm and one with ALPA... Neither of which sounds all that appealing to me...

BTW is USAPA's position still holding firm that they can in fact vacate the Nic? And is USAPA still confident that they can weather the storm of litigation that would certainly be forthcoming?

Thanks again for the info...

Tiger

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Thanks for the info. It's nice to have all available information regarding this ordeal.

That is what came out. All I have at the moment. Seems there is more than meets the eye at this time.

However these statements bring up two questions, one of which you alluded to...

1. If there are in fact "sufficient" cards why wait? Trusteeship would certainly lend itself to your cause, would it not? Seems more like the same old politics we currently see with ALPO.

hmmm Maybe a game of chicken right now between Prater and ALPA, the MEC and USAPA. Kind of interesting, isn't it?

2. Why the suggestion that the company plans to use subversive tactics to alter the outcome of an NMB investigation? More than likely the company would be just fine letting the pilot group rip itself apart (less work for them) over this fight for representation (read cheaper)... This notion of inflated lists is purely inflammatory. More politics...

Probably. But it comes from all 4 sides. Johnny Mac posted some pretty good things a few days ago. LEC in CLT. The MEC and Prater. USAPA leaders might be waiting to watch ALPA eat itself this week. I don't know the details but wow! BTW. Last week it was hinted by Prater that he has been negotiating with Doug and company in private. Like I said, there is more to it than you or I will ever be privy to. Particularly who our next merger partner is.

Granted this is from my point of view which I'll admit is not one of fondness for USAPA, however I am trying to be as fair as possible. I am trying to be prepared for both possible outcomes. One with USAPA at the helm and one with ALPA... Neither of which sounds all that appealing to me...

To me? Anything is better than ALPA and its dirty dealing, now National negotiating with the company. I think we all sue Prater for violating his public neutrality statement. If he really is dealing behind our backs, Whoa!!

BTW is USAPA's position still holding firm that they can in fact vacate the Nic? And is USAPA still confident that they can weather the storm of litigation that would certainly be forthcoming?

Couldn't answer that question. Litigation? Absolutely!

 

[Tiger 1050]

Last week it was hinted by Prater that he has been negotiating with Doug and company in private.

Ya know that would not surprise me these days...

Like I said, there is more to it than you or I will ever be privy to. Particularly who our next merger partner is.

I totally agree. All the politics really wear me out... Heck people if we're gonna merge, let's merge and if USAPA is gonna be our new CBA then let's get on with it!!!!

BTW how do you do that really cool multiple quotes thing?

 

[Tiger 1050]

hmmm Maybe a game of chicken right now between Prater and ALPA, the MEC and USAPA. Kind of interesting, isn't it?

I got to thinking about this particular response and I am left wondering what possible purpose this game of "chicken" could serve? If I understand the east's claim that ALPA has screwed you guys one too many times then why play games? Are you waiting to see if ALPA will "come around?" That, in and of itself, suggests that your loyalties lie with what ever entity will play into your desires. Not exactly the ALPA has to go at all costs mantra now is it? Frankly I believe if you guys really want ALPA gone then you are either gonna get on with the show or you are simply bluffing while you try to extort your desires out of ALPA and the west...

Not exactly a true and just cause from my perspective. JMO

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I got to thinking about this particular response and I am left wondering what possible purpose this game of "chicken" could serve?

That's my opinion. In reality it serves no purpose. It's the only thing I could think of.

If I understand the east's claim that ALPA has screwed you guys one too many times then why play games? Are you waiting to see if ALPA will "come around?" That, in and of itself, suggests that your loyalties lie with what ever entity will play into your desires. Not exactly the ALPA has to go at all costs mantra now is it? Frankly I believe if you guys really want ALPA gone then you are either gonna get on with the show or you are simply bluffing while you try to extort your desires out of ALPA and the west...

Not exactly a true and just cause from my perspective. JMO

I disagreed with the delay. Still do. But from my perspective I wanted to file last month. Like you I am getting tired of the politics and end game. I wish we would file and get on with the campaign. For me, the sooner the better. But thankfully calmer heads prevailed.

 

[AWA320]

I guess you're right. Everything out there says USAPA doesn't exist.

Or does it? Maybe it's all an ALPA conspiracy by Prater to solve the problems. Bradford is really a figment of your imagination. Say what you will, believe what you want, the delays won't change the outcome one iota. But thats my opinion.

"All good things take time, now it seems, timing".

Nope not perfect nor an I correct about everything but I am dead on perfectly correct about this and that's USAPA ain't got the numbers and we all know it! You came you tried and you lost!! If you had it you would have done it by now. USAPA is so transparent we can all see right thru you. Don't worry AAA73 after the union puts your non functional MEC in trusteeship we will get you the pay and benefits you deserve. The only thing USAPA would have gotton you is years of litigation and a certain retirement under LOA93 at $124/hr!!!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The only thing USAPA would have gotton you is years of litigation and a certain retirement under LOA93 at $124/hr!!!

Without ALPA....sign me up! Oh yea, I'm already signed up.

 

[Phoenix]

Nope not perfect nor an I correct about everything but I am dead on perfectly correct about this and that's USAPA ain't got the numbers and we all know it! You came you tried and you lost!! If you had it you would have done it by now. USAPA is so transparent we can all see right thru you. Don't worry AAA73 after the union puts your non functional MEC in trusteeship we will get you the pay and benefits you deserve. The only thing USAPA would have gotton you is years of litigation and a certain retirement under LOA93 at $124/hr!!!

This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Tuesday, October 30th, with two new items.
Item 1. ALPA President Captain John Prater has called a special meeting of the US Airways MEC, to include MEC officers and Local Council secretary-treasurers. The meeting will commence 0900 Thursday, November 1, 2007 and adjourn at 1700 November 1 or upon the conclusion of business.

The meeting will take place at our union offices, 1625 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC.

The agenda of the meeting is: 1. Response to the USAPA raid.

In addition, Captain Prater called special meetings of the US Airways MEC and America West MEC which will take place commencing 0900 Friday, November 9, 2007 and adjourn at 1700 November 10 or upon the conclusion of business.

The meetings will take place together at the Fairview Park Marriott, Tysons Corner, VA.

The agenda of the meetings is:

1. Response to USAPA raid.

2. Developing and staffing a process for resolving issues of importance to both pilot groups in order to develop a common strategy.

Item 2. The Communications Committee would like to make a correction and a clarification concerning item 3 on last night’s code a phone (October 29th ) which discussed new voting procedures. ALPA has only sent the letter describing new voting directions and procedures to pilots that have a ballot open to them at this current time. For instance, pilots in councils 94 and 32 are either currently participating in, or will soon be participating in, a representative election cycle. These pilots have received, or will soon receive, information from ALPA on a voter activation code. Pilots in the other councils will not receive this information until a ballot is open to them, either through a representative election or through a vote that the entire pilot group participates in. At that time, pilots will be sent the new voting procedures information. Eventually, all ALPA Pilots will use the new voting procedures.

Looks like there is possibly an expectation that the MECs will be composed of different people on the 9th...