AWA Alpa thread 11/2-11-8

[sharktooth]

This is so easy it's almost unfair. Quote from the Nicolau Award:

"Finally I would like to a reaffirm my opinion that the Chairman Nicolau
demonstrated exceptional judgment and wisdom working through many very difficult and

challenging issues including the disparate aircraft types, routes, compensation systems,
and pilot staffing formulas to mention just a few. It has been a privilege to work together with Chairman Nicolau and Captain Gillen on this Opinion and Award.

Dated: May 1, 2007

Captain James P Brucia
Pilot Neutral "


My college degree is in engineering, not English, so perhaps you can point out to me exactly where he called Nicolau senile? I won't be waiting for answer since I already know it.

Aw, darn, the predisposed answer. It seems your college degree was in stupidity. and you "already know the answer"? So, why would you then interpose yourself into a forum where you might be wrong, if you already know you are "correct"?

It has already been codified that the Piedmont dudes were hired without reference to IQ. It seems you A&W types were hired with a complete rejection to IQ.

I can claim one save to a A&W 757 takeoff from BWI, rwy 28, where the captain lined up the aircraft with the right runway edge lights. My yell woke up the FO and second jumpseater, who then joined in and shamed your scab into using the runway centerline lights for takeoff. (Names on request). In fact, the FO confided to me that he was not the worst pilot at A&W, and he inquired about working with US. I told him that I believed in seniority and he should stay with A&W.

 

[EastUS]

No east, it matters a great deal!! It shows your continued willingness to LIE!!! Just like the hundreds of positions you claim you would lose to attrition in 2008 only to be slapped with the fact that you only have 77 retirements on the east so yeah it matters, it matters because you feel that you are entitled at the expense of others and will say and do anything to have your way up to and including LIE...

"The situation is that a minority's seeking to impose it's will/Nic on the majority, and only a unified contract even opens the door for anything of the sort to ever actually happen."


OK; back to the bombast.

I'm worried...I think that you're sugarcoating far too much, and pent up feelings of serious hostility can do one harm, unless properly vented.......

"it matters because you feel that you are entitled at the expense of others" You didn't really say that, did you? :blink: How many hours do you have again?..and what east seat do you feel yourself entitled to? Ummm..words just fail me here.

Do point out to all readers anything that I've personally LIE'd about?

More good chuckles...thanks.

PS: In your ever righteous quest to try and take any seat from people with far more experience and years worked than yourself: You forgot to do any more braying about "HONOR" this time.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No east, it matters a great deal!! It shows your continued willingness to LIE!!! Just like the hundreds of positions you claim you would lose to attrition in 2008 only to be slapped with the fact that you only have 77 retirements on the east so yeah it matters, it matters because you feel that you are entitled at the expense of others and will say and do anything to have your way up to and including LIE...

Wow! Such passion! Yawn.

I believe what was said was that there would be 77 captain seats opening up due to retirements. If you include pilots retiring from the right seat, the retirement number is likely at least double that.

Bidin' my time.

It's so amusing to sit back, relax and watch you westies continue to jump out of your skin at something over which you have no control.

 

[EastUS]

Wow! Such passion! Yawn.

I believe what was said was that there would be 77 captain seats opening up due to retirements. If you include pilots retiring from the right seat, the retirement number is likely at least double that.

Bidin' my time.

It's so amusing to sit back, relax and watch you westies continue to jump out of your skin at something over which you have no control.

Retirements from any seat certainly count as attrition in any case. People improve lifestyles by moving off reserve/getting better blocks/etc.

Some of the posted skin jumping will ultimately prove to be self correcting. There's only so much available space on a given page, and it's only a matter of time before increasingly huge "shouts" evolve into ever larger displays, such that only an enourmous single letter will eventually be viewable At the current rate...I'd give it no more than a week, although some testing of the growth rates of "Accept and move on" versus "LIE" would have to be studied for an accurate forecast.

 

[luvn737s]

It won't take long after the election. Block rep elections should occur very shortly thereafter. Your first problem is thinking within the confines of ALPA. This will not be anything like ALPA.
The professional negotiators are already on board. So no elections of negotiating committee will be required.
It will be at least one year before a new representational election can be held.

You missed the point. The company will be hesitant to begin negotiations with a union when there is the very real chance it won't be around in a year. You can continue to provide amusement for them, or you can begin the real work of negotiating a contract that serves all the membership.

Obviously the east still hasn't lost enough to take the situation seriously. They are still playing with Monopoly money; spending what others in the past earned for them (i.e scope and retirement giveaways). Now they giveaway the opportunity to capture real gains. They let U-SAPS flourish at their expense (literally).

 

[AWA320]

Wow! Such passion! Yawn.

I believe what was said was that there would be 77 captain seats opening up due to retirements. If you include pilots retiring from the right seat, the retirement number is likely at least double that.

Bidin' my time.

It's so amusing to sit back, relax and watch you westies continue to jump out of your skin at something over which you have no control.

Since when do right seat position create capt vacancies?? DO they in your world??? Liers and cheats that describes the east usapa crowd. I would get that resume ready and hope they are looking for 56 plus year old first officers with bad attitudes

 

[nycbusdriver]

Since when do right seat position create capt vacancies?? DO they in your world??? Liers and cheats that describes the east usapa crowd. I would get that resume ready and hope they are looking for 56 plus year old first officers with bad attitudes

Get an effing clue.

I was responding to a post which whined about there only being 77 RETIREMENTS, which is not true. I did NOT say that right seat vacancies create captain slots. I said RETIREMENTS are considerably more than 77.

 

[N924PS]

Since when do right seat position create capt vacancies?? DO they in your world??? Liers and cheats that describes the east usapa crowd. I would get that resume ready and hope they are looking for 56 plus year old first officers with bad attitudes

Talk about bad attitudes AWA 320, I think yours ranks right up there.

You will get your Capt vacancy eventually. It just won't be at the expense of one of those 56 plus year old first officers.

Not knowing exactly how long you have been in this industry, may I suggest you also keep a resume' current. Things can change in an instant and you too may find yourself on the outside looking in.

The individuals at USAPA you disparage are some of the finest individuals you will ever meet. Maybe you should join USAPA and have the privilege of knowing them.

 

[BoeingBoy]

One can count the retirement numbers any number of ways. According to the latest bid results, there are 102 active line pilots retiring within 12 months of the effective date of the bid which is Feb 1, 2008. So those 102 line pilot retirements are for the period starting about Feb 15, 2008 and Feb 1, 2009 since Resourse Planning normally takes the retirees for the 1st half of the bid effective month out of the bid - they'll be flying their position for part of the month (Feb 2008 in this case) but not shown on the permanent bid roster for that month.

I don't have a current list of "supervisory" pilots, but would be surprised if more than 3 or 4 would be retiring in the same timeframe (and need to be replaced, creating vacancies for line pilots). So let's call it 105-110 active pilots retiring in the mid-Feb '08 thru Feb 1 '09 timeframe.

Retirements for the ranks of those out on medical are not worth worrying about. If they don't return to active status, their reaching retirement age won't create any movement for active pilots. If they do return prior to retirement, they'll "displace" into a position, absorbing a vacancy (or bumping another pilot from that position) before they then retire and leave that position vacant (a net wash).

That leaves only two sources of additional retirements - any pilots returning from furlough that aren't included in the bid results (are there any other than a few possibly being held at J4J positions?) and any pilots on leave of absence that could return then retire. Any returnees from furlough (or J4J) would be pretty junior and LOA returnees would be like those returning from medical - absorbing a vacancy first then creating the same vacancy when they retired so ultimately no effect.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

You missed the point. You can continue to provide Now they giveaway the opportunity to capture real gains. They let U-SAPS flourish at their expense (literally).

I'm all ears sir: When/where/on what planet was the last time any Alpo fiasco/"negotiation" resulted in "real gains"? To indulge in any notion that some standard "It's the best we could get" contract via Alpo's amateur "negotiators" would override the Nic factor enough to be ratifiable's extremely naieve. East folks fully know, from long and hard experience, that "contracts" can/do blow away in the wind at the stroke of a pen or event. What possible actual basis there is for the current management to drop tons of gold on the situation escapes me. Their offers to date amount to little more than parity for the east, and small single digits of increases for the west. Exactly what "real gains" are you speaking of? Even magically assuming some awesome "contract"...such would/will evaporate with any future merger, or during the next serious economic down turn. Would you trade your seniority for the duration of your remaining career for any such yourself? Imagine yourself in the position of the east "junior" guys who would never see the left seat...EVER under Nic. What possible reason do they have for ratifying any "contract" that includes undiluted Nic? Extend that upwards to include those of ours who would be less devastated, but suffer irreperable damage through Nic. Again: What possible reason do you think they have to sign off on Nic via some ephemeral contract?

 

[luvn737s]

Who do you suppose got you the pay rates you enjoyed during your "good times"? The arrogant never give credit to those upon whose shoulders they stand.

So now you say your contract got blown away by the wind (jetstream maybe?). The record shows the majority of pilots agreeing to give away their gains (which they never really fought for) so that they wouldn't have to worry about what a judge might do. What wind was that?

So now a group of folks, U-SAPS, bent solely on vengeance plans to build support, when all they have delivered so far is delay; delay in filing for an election and delay in negotiations because they pulll the strings of the AAA MEC (which is all the reason necessary for National to take the wheel and restore order). Please tell me what U-SAPS has done. I can look back at the successful labor fights at Eastern, Pan Am, NWA, and many others whose sacrifices lead to the industry leading pay scales you harvested, but you'll have to fill me in on the accomplishments of U-SAPS and those who promote it.

 

[Phoenix]

Get an effing clue.

I was responding to a post which whined about there only being 77 RETIREMENTS, which is not true. I did NOT say that right seat vacancies create captain slots. I said RETIREMENTS are considerably more than 77.

The one who throws around Lie written for billboards is falling off his rocker. How many there are is not important. If it is ony one from the East, but it is given to the West, that is the problem. The suggestion that there are only 77 from the East being Nicked over to the West, and somehow that is OK, is a non-starter. The number Nicked over only serves to measure the magnitude of the windfall.

 

[EastUS]

Who do you suppose got you the pay rates you enjoyed during your "good times"? The arrogant never give credit to those upon whose shoulders they stand.

The "good times" you speak of for the country's airline pilots were only a temporary residue from pre-deregulation days. Shall we discuss the selling off of the "young" via B scales in abundance?...Or..Perhaps the cowardly, and stupid, nay = clinically insane mass surrender of pensions? "What wind was that?" An Alpo wind.

Alpa, in earlier times, was a functional force in a regulated airline enviornment...That's hardly been the case for decades. Believe whatever you want.

"The arrogant never give credit to those upon whose shoulders they stand" This?...from some person seeking to take the seat of another pilot with more time and work years? One might, just possibly, consider your position to be fully arrogant, and note that you're fine with standing on another's more experienced, and battered shoulders, and..even taking his/her position away for yourself. I'm certain that there must be something that truly makes such a notion fully noble/righteous/etc...I'm just not seeing it.

As for: "when all they have delivered so far is delay" Said "delay" has afforded significant upward mobility out east, recalls from furlough, as well as enhanced life styles via better bidding positions. When's Alpo done anything in the last 20 years to make life for the line pilots it "represents" out here any better in any way?

PS: "So now a group of folks, U-SAPS, bent solely on vengeance" (???) You esteem yourself far too much if you even imagine that "vengeance" against any AWA plays any part in the formative thinking. What's the possible point of any such BS?

 

[AWA320]

Get an effing clue.

I was responding to a post which whined about there only being 77 RETIREMENTS, which is not true. I did NOT say that right seat vacancies create captain slots. I said RETIREMENTS are considerably more than 77.

Ohhh getting a bit testy are we? Well the numbers of active capt retirements for the year you cliam do seen to add up in the companies 5 yr plan, i wonder why??? Right seat retirements don't create capt vacancies period. Stop with the lies already cause you've been busted.

 

[AWA320]

Talk about bad attitudes AWA 320, I think yours ranks right up there.

Yeah right I take my lead from you fine folks!!!

You will get your Capt vacancy eventually. It just won't be at the expense of one of those 56 plus year old first officers.

Ok if you say so...

Not knowing exactly how long you have been in this industry, may I suggest you also keep a resume' current. Things can change in an instant and you too may find yourself on the outside looking in.

Words to live by my friend words to live by!!

The individuals at USAPA you disparage are some of the finest individuals you will ever meet. Maybe you should join USAPA and have the privilege of knowing them.

Naw I don't think so I surround myself with people that understand honoring their agreements and spend time with people that know the importance of being responsible for their actions!!