AWA Alpa thread 11/2-11-8

[hp_fa]

What is important is what's not written. So unless you know him personally or were in on the post award briefing, just keep quoting what you want. It doesn't change opinions.

You lost me on that one. The only thing that really matters is the written award because that is what a court will eventually need to review. Anything conveyed by non-written communication will likely not be considered by any court.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We're not senile, we're just blinded by our own greed and stupidity.


Sound very much like what we told the arbitrator when he told us to "seriously reconsider our position".

Ho hum.

I've always been a Gershwin fan, but lately I can't get one of his songs out of my mind:

"Bidin' My Time."

 

[hp_fa]

I've always been a Gershwin fan, but lately I can't get one of his songs out of my mind:

Rhapsody in Blue? That wasn't intentional was it?

 

[traderjake]

"Bidin' My Time."

"If I only had a Brain" would be more appropriate.

 

[EastUS]

"If I only had a Brain" would be more appropriate.

I suppose venting's good to do, as it dumps some of the anger and frustration. There's plenty of mutual disgust to go around. All the west whining/ranting/insults/etc won't change anything, unless it could somehow magically add large numbers to your current list for voting purposes.

 

[SegmentKing]

hrmmm

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm bidin' my time,
'Cause that's the kinda guy I'm.
While other folks grow dizzy (here Ira Gershwin mystically foresaw the AWA pilot group)
I keep busy
Bidin' my time
Next year, next year,
I'll just keep on nappin' -
This year, this year,
I'll just keep on nappin'
And bidin' my time,
'Cause that's the kinda guy I'm.
There's no regrettin'
When I'm settin'
Bidin' my time.

 

[N924PS]

I suppose venting's good to do, as it dumps some of the anger and frustration. There's plenty of mutual disgust to go around. All the west whining/ranting/insults/etc won't change anything, unless it could somehow magically add large numbers to your current list for voting purposes.

Most of the whining/ranting/insults/etc don't come from the West pilots. With a few notable exceptions, most of the West forum participants seem to engage in real discussion unlike most of the East posters.

A very high price is being paid by both East and West to protect the East attrition right now. In other words, several thousand pilots are foregoing enhancements to their pay and benefits while a few hundred East pilots capture those Captain vacancies.

With oil at unprecedented prices and a tenuous economy, I see the chance of an improvement in the lot of ALL USAirways pilots slipping away while the USAPA/Nicolau issues drag on for years. What a shame.

 

[EastUS]

Most of the whining/ranting/insults/etc don't come from the West pilots. With a few notable exceptions, most of the West forum participants seem to engage in real discussion unlike most of the East posters.

A very high price is being paid by both East and West to protect the East attrition right now. In other words, several thousand pilots are foregoing enhancements to their pay and benefits while a few hundred East pilots capture those Captain vacancies.

With oil at unprecedented prices and a tenuous economy, I see the chance of an improvement in the lot of ALL USAirways pilots slipping away while the USAPA/Nicolau issues drag on for years. What a shame.

"Most of the whining/ranting/insults/etc don't come from the West pilots" You're entitled to your perceptions of course. Try watching the latest PHX pilots' interaction with the company president for an alternative view. None of either side's bombast actually matters in any case.

"A very high price is being paid by both East and West to protect the East attrition right now." Even if true, (which is only a notion based upon some magical assumption of instant, and unprecedented good faith from upper management), that should show the degree to which the east's willing to go to protect the seniority so assaulted in the Nic fiasco.

"I see the chance of an improvement in the lot of ALL USAirways pilots slipping away while the USAPA/Nicolau issues drag on for years. What a shame." Such seems infinitely preferable to continuing down the proven path of professional disintegration via Alpo. Anyone who really believes that the current management team would instantly sign off on any contract, in any circumstances, is unbelievably naeive imho. What is their possible true motivation for willingly tossing out well over a hundred million per year?..and that'd merely gain the east parity with the west for starters...which this same management's been wholly uninterested in doing for 2 years. Unless there's a merger on the near horizon; management's got little to nothing to gain from any combined contract scenario. If there's indeed a merger in the works; the east contingent couldn't possibly do ANYTHING more manifestly self destructive than to sign off on Nic.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Most of the whining/ranting/insults/etc don't come from the West pilots. With a few notable exceptions, most of the West forum participants seem to engage in real discussion unlike most of the East posters.

Not hardly. The most notable westies that fall into your categories have conveniently disappeared altogether. Along with a few of the most notable east guys too.

A very high price is being paid by both East and West to protect the East attrition right now. In other words, several thousand pilots are foregoing enhancements to their pay and benefits while a few hundred East pilots capture those Captain vacancies.

Obviously you can't see that seniority is the only thing left worth protecting. So please don't lecture us on all those benefits when they could easily disappear with a stroke of a pen. Or given away by our leadership operating under the ALPA structure. Even without a vote or input from the very people represented.

With oil at unprecedented prices and a tenuous economy, I see the chance of an improvement in the lot of ALL USAirways pilots slipping away while the USAPA/Nicolau issues drag on for years. What a shame.

Almost right about that. Why is it you always think a new union will be inferior to what we already have? Only this time our new union will have only USAirways pilots to represent. Not a collection of self serving members who would like nothing better than see us disappear. I know what I have had under ALPA, anything would be better than that!

 

[luvn737s]

Almost right about that. Why is it you always think a new union will be inferior to what we already have? Only this time our new union will have only USAirways pilots to represent. Not a collection of self serving members who would like nothing better than see us disappear. I know what I have had under ALPA, anything would be better than that!

Are you being assessed thousands to pay for legal defense of your union currently? How long do you think it will take for USAPA to organize and elect leadership with whom the company will negotiate? I mean after the legal challenges from those they will disenfranchise? And shortly after that is complete, there will be calls for a new representational election, which will cause the company to break off negotiations while they wait for the pilots to decide who their representitives will be.

USAPA will represent the pilots allright. Represent the east in court against the west and those east pilots with buyers remorse.

Does each pilot even make enough gross income to support the legal fees necessary to simultaneously fight the west and the ALPA represented pilots of United when merger time comes?

Suppose Nicoalu stands and United staples? The AAA pilots don't have that great a reputation as card players, no pun intended.

 

[Phoenix]

Are you being assessed thousands to pay for legal defense of your union currently?

Your argument is for USAir pilots to consider how much a union of today costs vs. a union of tomorrow? Given the cumulative cost of ALPO and ALPO expert opinions that we hold near and dear, I can't imagine why on earth you would ask that question.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How long do you think it will take for USAPA to organize and elect leadership with whom the company will negotiate? I mean after the legal challenges from those they will disenfranchise? And shortly after that is complete, there will be calls for a new representational election, which will cause the company to break off negotiations while they wait for the pilots to decide who their representitives will be.

It won't take long after the election. Block rep elections should occur very shortly thereafter. Your first problem is thinking within the confines of ALPA. This will not be anything like ALPA.
The professional negotiators are already on board. So no elections of negotiating committee will be required.
It will be at least one year before a new representational election can be held.

 

[AWA320]

None of which matters in the least, regardless of how one views the Nic mess. Nic's been argued over for half a year now, and whether or not he was snorting heroin at the time whilst dressed in a kilt and swim fins, or acting with the sage wisdom of the ages, means nothing to the current situation. The situation is that a minority's seeking to impose it's will/Nic on the majority, and only a unified contract even opens the door for anything of the sort to ever actually happen.

No east, it matters a great deal!! It shows your continued willingness to LIE!!! Just like the hundreds of positions you claim you would lose to attrition in 2008 only to be slapped with the fact that you only have 77 retirements on the east so yeah it matters, it matters because you feel that you are entitled at the expense of others and will say and do anything to have your way up to and including LIE...

 

[Phoenix]

No east, it matters a great deal!! It shows your continued willingness to LIE!!! Just like the hundreds of positions you claim you would lose to attrition in 2008 only to be slapped with the fact that you only have 77 retirements on the east so yeah it matters, it matters because you feel that you are entitled at the expense of others and will say and do anything to have your way up to and including LIE...

:huh: