AMFA getting it done

[Overspeed]

Wow!! This is the first time I have seen these numbers. I knew they were large but did know it was this large. That's a 65% reduction in members for the TWU. And the reductions and lay-offs in 2003 happend outside of a BK filing. Let's see how he will attempt to spin this one off.

65%? No. The facts are misrepresented again. There are just over 10,000 M&R currently. There was more than 12,000 prior to BK. AA went from approximately 820 aircraft down to the current approximately 600. Park 200 plus old aircraft and you don't need a ton of mechanics. You should know this smart guy. WN has received so many new aircraft over the past ten years they don't require as much maintenance since it takes 5 to 7 years to hit your first heavy. AA does have older aircraft now but as the fleet is replaced with brand new aircraft fewer AMT jobs will be needed at AA and hopefully those HC adjustments will be accommodated through attrition. As the fleet ages however at AA and then aircraft start hitting their heavies 65% of that total labor spend will be in-house.

At AMFA your scope clause is based of fleet size, not age and the bill of work those older aircraft require. In other words, AMFA scope does not protect future work on sliding scale. It is based of a hard number of aircraft, not the work needed to be done on those aircraft. And work volume, not aircraft numbers, drive jobs.

Bottom line, prior to BK all job reductions were driven off of work load reduction, not outsourcing. Any AMT at AA knows that.

 

[1AA]

And how does the twu protect our future work? Lol..

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Again, its very simple. How many lines of airframe overhaul were in-house in SFO when AMFA took over? And how many are there now? Yes AMFA negotiated to give remove more restrictions on outsourcing that the IAM had already put in place. Big win AMFA. Big win.

And yet again you flaunt your ignorance.

Heavy overhaul was lost under the IAM, you cannot refute that yet you persist in you lie which you were caught in yet again by the very article you posted in a pathetic attempt to frame AMFA for the outsourcing.

The widebodies WERE ALREADY OUTSOURCED TO A DOMESTIC MRO.

Again, from your own link...

""...United Airlines said Tuesday that it will outsource heavy maintenance work on the 54 Boeing- 777 aircraft in its fleet to China.
The work has been contracted out to a domestic vendor, Triad International Maintenance Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., in recent years..... ""

Your own article proves you're a liar.

Well Done, Well Done Indeed.

 

[767 mechanic]

And how does the twu protect our future work? Lol..

By having us vote on a contract that was incomplete. with articles left open until after the vote. Overspin still lies to everybody on this board about how many o/h docks there is in Tulsa and DWH. Overspin counts docks in Tulsa that are collecting dust and not used for anything other than drop ins. Anybody from the DFW area knows that there is no o/h at DWH. The only thing that could remotely be considered o/h work was one pylon mod on a 767 that only took a few days. The only reason that it took that long is that they had to wait on two pettibones from California. Overspin continues to try and pit o/h against line by parroting the twu party line by telling people that the AMFA does not care about o/h. Think about it people KC is gone,AFW is on its way to closing, DWH is a hangar that is called o/h,but works out of service a/c,b-checks,engine changes and other various line maintenance work. Bobby Gless gave AA this for free, with nothing given in return to the membership. We were under a concessionary contract since 2003 and we received nothing in return for this. These people in the twu care nothing about you,me or our families. A perfect example of this was revealed at the pres council meeting last week. Twu members overpaid for health insurance last year by 20 million dollars and Don Videtich cut a deal with company to pay 50 cents on the dollar in stock without membership approval. Thats right the membership over pays by 20 million for ins and Phat Don decides on his own that you only deserve 1/2 of the money that the company screwed you out of. Do you think Phat Don and overspin paid 1/2 for there ins? I think not. Lets not forget about those envelopes of money that get passed around the atd on a reguler basis. Tim Mcaninly has bragged about it to numerous people. Now people know were the money goes for using that twu credit card or long term disability ins.

 

[Overspeed]

I was waiting for you or someone like you to try and spin this bit, sorry to say you're both ignorant of what went on at UAL.....and you're a liar.

First did you notice this bit in the article you linked in.......




In recent years......yeah like when the IAM was still on the property.

Allow me to educate you on what AMFA did agree to.

Here is a link to our 2005-2009 agreement

http://teamsterssfo....mfa_UAL_CBA.pdf

The contractual reference in question in this case is Article:II - F which you can see reads....



Up until the AMFA agreement it had no exclusion for any fleet....ALL heavy maintenance had to be performed in the U.S, even when it was already outsourced.

All heavy maintenance had already been farmed out to DOMESTIC MROs, the only thing that AMFA agreed to was to wave the exclusions to the 777 & 747.

For this language modification, AMFA recieved verified and quantified costs savings credit during the second round of bankruptcy proceedings and saved our membership that amount in further wage/benefit cuts.

The work was outsourced under the IAM not AMFA.

Now wait a second, the United IAM 141M membership voted down the TA in 2002. There were 13,000 members when the TA was voted down because the M&R membership wanted to continue fighting. The AMFA organizers campaigned on the premise that they would get a better deal than the IAM. The CBA language in the AMFA "better deal" is no better than the term sheet handed to the IAM on page 4.

http://www.unitedafa...docs/iam141.pdf

So how did the IAM agree to more outsourcing when under the 1113c process of BK the IAM 141M bargained for M&R, the membership voted it down, voted in AMFA, and then AMFA agrees to the terms in the 1113c term sheet and then blames the IAM for outsourcing? Grow some huevos and own that AMFA was the collective bargaining agent that brought back a TA that had the same language that the IAM negotiated previously. Keep lying and blaming others.

When AMFA finally had the TA voted and signed only 6,800 M&R remained. 50% job loss. Sweet!

That professional negotiator philosophy sure showed those industrial union negotiators from the IAM how it's done!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

At UA SFO, IND, and OAK closed all but three overhaul lines due to outsourcing.

The outsourcing at UA did start under the IAM but if you remember AMFA promised they would do better and they didn't. The outsourcing continued as Greg Hall pushed to drop all AO and Mod work while AMFA was there and they did not stop it. You all know that but you continue to lie about it.

O/S

I knew Greg hall when he was a baby faced nothing of a foreman at Eastern Airlines.
He did such a great job hear at AA while he was VP he was able to hone his skills to screw the UAL guys since the TWU Intl is so weak. So if the out sourcing started with the IAM the Fault lies with the IAM. AMFA may have not stopped it but it was the IAM that ALLOWED it. Greg was given the boot from UAL as well and was asked to clear his desk on a Friday, with out notice. I have first hand knowledge from a Guy who I shot/hunted with at UAL. Danny martinez also an X Eastern guy also learned how to screw over employees here at AA, The TWU has been a good teacher.

If the TWU has done such a great job explain why when we gave up the concessions of 2003 there was no snap back claus. DON V. stood in a LAX break room with a room full of mechanics, and mgrs and consultants ans said, (Quote)
"WE the twu intl did not feel it was in the best interest of the company at this time to have that added" I asked him who he works for us or them (the Company)

Now all further negotiation between AA and the TWU will be started from the concessionary point instead of the rates we GOT due to the Company and TWU being scared AMFA was going to get in and because that is what the NWA guys got as well.

Now the tWU has made a deal with the IAM and USAir to further screw the mechanics at AA. Little let it slip but he had a deal with the IBT to slow the drive of AMFA here and now we know all the speculation about it was true.

Give us a break O/S we Don't believe the BULL SH%T you spill. Tell it to the T-Town boys they are the only group here at AA that still believes the TWU is going to save their jobs. BUT You and I know AA and USAir will also close Tulsa like UAL and all the other carriers have, gotten rid of the O/H bases its cheaper to outsource then hav Americans fix americans jets.

 

[Bob Owens]

Compare that to the money OV Delle femme made over his term as leader of AMFA and I would say the numbers just won't compare.

Bobby Gless has already been paid more by us than Delle Femme ever was or will be paid by AMFA

Delle raised mechanics expectations by raising the bar from around $25/hr in 1999 to $40 by 2001, eventually due to threats from the NMB they settled at $35/hr. Everyone followed.

Gless told mechanics they needed to lower their expectations.

Who gave mechanics better value, Delle who helped us get the biggest raise of our careers or bobby who after years of concessions and give backs told us to lower our expecataions even more as he collected his $180k/year?

 

[Bob Owens]

Your right. It can be easily verified. AMFA got in at UA in 2003 right? So if AMFA did not allow any outsourcing of SFO jobs then who was representing UA M&R at in 2005? Probably why AMFA got booted because they lie to their members and they had enough. The craft union failed them.

"United mechanics agreed to allow outsourcing of heavy maintenance on Boeing 777s and jumbo 747s to overseas vendors as part of a recent agreement with the money-losing airline, said Terry O'Rourke, spokesman for Local 9 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association in San Bruno."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/China-to-work-on-United-jets-Airline-to-2613734.php#ixzz2KYe74IGU

I took your advice and read it. Guess you missed the second paragraph where it said.

"The work has been contracted out to a domestic vendor, Triad International Maintenance Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., in recent years. "

Recents years.

The work already was being outsourced for " years". it went from Domestic outsourcing to foreign, we went straight to Foreign.

 

[Bob Owens]

I was waiting for you or someone like you to try and spin this bit, sorry to say you're both ignorant of what went on at UAL.....and you're a liar.

First did you notice this bit in the article you linked in.......




In recent years......yeah like when the IAM was still on the property.

Allow me to educate you on what AMFA did agree to.

Here is a link to our 2005-2009 agreement

http://teamsterssfo.com/items/2005_amfa_UAL_CBA.pdf

The contractual reference in question in this case is Article:II - F which you can see reads....



Up until the AMFA agreement it had no exclusion for any fleet....ALL heavy maintenance had to be performed in the U.S, even when it was already outsourced.

All heavy maintenance had already been farmed out to DOMESTIC MROs, the only thing that AMFA agreed to was to wave the exclusions to the 777 & 747.

For this language modification, AMFA recieved verified and quantified costs savings credit during the second round of bankruptcy proceedings and saved our membership that amount in further wage/benefit cuts.

The work was outsourced under the IAM not AMFA.

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]
[/background]​

So in other words they were able to get their guys money by switching from Domestic MROs to foreign ones?

Heres the kicker for us, we were not given credit for cheaper foreign outsourcing, instead we only got the savings for outsourcing at the Domestic rates (that were inflated because they claimed they would have to pay a premium due to restricted capacity) even though AA decided to send much of the work overseas. So in other words AA was able to maximize what they took from us while also maximizing the savings from outsourcing without giving us credit for it.

 

[Overspeed]

O/S

I knew Greg hall when he was a baby faced nothing of a foreman at Eastern Airlines.
He did such a great job hear at AA while he was VP he was able to hone his skills to screw the UAL guys since the TWU Intl is so weak. So if the out sourcing started with the IAM the Fault lies with the IAM. AMFA may have not stopped it but it was the IAM that ALLOWED it. Greg was given the boot from UAL as well and was asked to clear his desk on a Friday, with out notice. I have first hand knowledge from a Guy who I shot/hunted with at UAL. Danny martinez also an X Eastern guy also learned how to screw over employees here at AA, The TWU has been a good teacher.

If the TWU has done such a great job explain why when we gave up the concessions of 2003 there was no snap back claus. DON V. stood in a LAX break room with a room full of mechanics, and mgrs and consultants ans said, (Quote)
"WE the twu intl did not feel it was in the best interest of the company at this time to have that added" I asked him who he works for us or them (the Company)

Now all further negotiation between AA and the TWU will be started from the concessionary point instead of the rates we GOT due to the Company and TWU being scared AMFA was going to get in and because that is what the NWA guys got as well.

Now the tWU has made a deal with the IAM and USAir to further screw the mechanics at AA. Little let it slip but he had a deal with the IBT to slow the drive of AMFA here and now we know all the speculation about it was true.

Give us a break O/S we Don't believe the BULL SH%T you spill. Tell it to the T-Town boys they are the only group here at AA that still believes the TWU is going to save their jobs. BUT You and I know AA and USAir will also close Tulsa like UAL and all the other carriers have, gotten rid of the O/H bases its cheaper to outsource then hav Americans fix americans jets.

The AMFA CBA at UA was a 6 year, 8 month agreement. It had two, TWO wage concessions in it from BK of 13% and another 3.9%, outsourcing of all airframe overhaul except three lines, and a raise of 7.5% over the nearly 7 year agreement. Is that the snap back you were hoping for? Yeah AMFA, they are awesome. All the AMFA satin jackets in the world can't make up for 50% job loss due to outsourcing, close to 16% wage cut on top, loss of retiree medical, termination of the pension, and a 6% pay raise for a five year contract.

At AA the TWU negotiated no job loss due to outsourcing, a 17.5% wage cut, continuation of retiree medical, and continued accrual of the pension plan. Keeping the pension, retiree medical, and no outsourcing of any work in exchange for 1.5% more of a cut over with a almost two year shorter contract duration is way better than the professional negotiators of AMFA got at UA.

So another AMFA organizer is conceding overhaul jobs so the line can get a raise. Sacrificing overhaul, it's the AMFA way.

 

[Bob Owens]

AMFA sucks plain and simple when it comes to protecting jobs.

Guess it depends on what you mean by "protecting" jobs.
Where we protecting jobs when we became the first legacy carrier to agree to no longer have mechanics do receive and Dispatch?
Mechanics were eliminated at many line stations thanks to that 2003 concession.

Deicing.

SRPs, agreeing to allow the company to displace and replace A&Ps with unlicensed SRPs is protecting our jobs?

Then we had 2003, loss of vacation, Holidays, pilot cap on health benefits, sick time and around 25 more concessions is "protecting Jobs" seems more like in order to keep more people on payroll you destroyed all the jobs.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bobby Gless has already been paid more by us than Delle Femme ever was or will be paid by AMFA

Delle raised mechanics expectations by raising the bar from around $25/hr in 1999 to $40 by 2001, eventually due to threats from the NMB they settled at $35/hr. Everyone followed.

Gless told mechanics they needed to lower their expectations.

Who gave mechanics better value, Delle who helped us get the biggest raise of our careers or bobby who after years of concessions and give backs told us to lower our expecataions even more as he collected his $180k/year?

gless is a sell out!!

O.V. Delle-Femine promoted our entire craft and profession whereas sell out gless promoted only his masters and keepers within the twu.

 

[Bob Owens]

The AMFA CBA at UA was a 6 year, 8 month agreement. It had two, TWO wage concessions in it from BK of 13% and another 3.9%, outsourcing of all airframe overhaul except three lines, and a raise of 7.5% over the nearly 7 year agreement. Is that the snap back you were hoping for? Yeah AMFA, they are awesome. All the AMFA satin jackets in the world can't make up for 50% job loss due to outsourcing, close to 16% wage cut on top, loss of retiree medical, termination of the pension, and a 6% pay raise for a five year contract.

At AA the TWU negotiated no job loss due to outsourcing, a 17.5% wage cut, continuation of retiree medical, and continued accrual of the pension plan. Keeping the pension, retiree medical, and no outsourcing of any work in exchange for 1.5% more of a cut over with a almost two year shorter contract duration is way better than the professional negotiators of AMFA got at UA.

So another AMFA organizer is conceding overhaul jobs so the line can get a raise. Sacrificing overhaul, it's the AMFA way.

So according to you UAL gave up 16.9% in BK while we gave up 17.5% outside of BK, they got back 7.5% in BK over 6 years while we got back 7% over 9 years.

In 1995 , a year of profits we got a 6 year 6% contract.

You shouldn't brag that you negotiated wages so low that it was not cost effective to outsource the work. Workers can expect results like that without paying a union to do that for them. Walmart employs more workers than any other employer, and they are heavily criticized by unions because they offer inferior pay and benefits, they claim the same thing you do, that their low wages allow them to hire more workers and like you they say thats a good thing. Union people disagree with the Walmart philosophy, you obviously do not..

 

[lineguy43]

So according to you UAL gave up 16.9% in BK while we gave up 17.5% outside of BK, they got back 7.5% in BK over 6 years while we got back 7% over 9 years.

In 1995 , a year of profits we got a 6 year 6% contract.

You shouldn't brag that you negotiated wages so low that it was not cost effective to outsource the work. Workers can expect results like that without paying a union to do that for them. Walmart employs more workers than any other employer, and they are heavily criticized by unions because they offer inferior pay and benefits, they claim the same thing you do, that their low wages allow them to hire more workers and like you they say thats a good thing. Union people disagree with the Walmart philosophy, you obviously do not..

Nice one Bob...The Walmart analogy was/is perfect that is EXACTLY what the twu is doing. Except in their case it is more dues paying members so they can keep the twu coffers filled.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The AMFA CBA at UA was a 6 year, 8 month agreement. It had two, TWO wage concessions in it from BK of 13% and another 3.9%, outsourcing of all airframe overhaul except three lines, and a raise of 7.5% over the nearly 7 year agreement. Is that the snap back you were hoping for? Yeah AMFA, they are awesome. All the AMFA satin jackets in the world can't make up for 50% job loss due to outsourcing, close to 16% wage cut on top, loss of retiree medical, termination of the pension, and a 6% pay raise for a five year contract.

At AA the TWU negotiated no job loss due to outsourcing, a 17.5% wage cut, continuation of retiree medical, and continued accrual of the pension plan. Keeping the pension, retiree medical, and no outsourcing of any work in exchange for 1.5% more of a cut over with a almost two year shorter contract duration is way better than the professional negotiators of AMFA got at UA.

So another AMFA organizer is conceding overhaul jobs so the line can get a raise. Sacrificing overhaul, it's the AMFA way.

I am not conceding anything, the TWU has done enough of that over the yrs here at AA. Now AFW is closed, where did all those jobs GO? The twu let AA close AFW forced families lives to be disrupted.

As we replace the fleet here at AA, be honest and tell us all what is going to happen to the work,the heavy checks, as we shed the older aircraft? What about the 757 seats being done outside AA. The work being done in South America. As we shed the MD80's and the 757 and the 767-200.

Where are those jobs going to go? O/s tell us what is the TWU's plan for the rest of us who work the line? Are we going to take another pay cut to make you look good, keep them on payroll but take money and vacation, holidays, medical and what ever else you feel will promote the job saving at aa. I would rather get laid off due to seniority and wait for the recall after a while at least when and if I decide to come back the job would be worth it.

BUT NO YOU and the other TWU Intl Officers and the kiss a$%TWU coolaide drinkers in Tulsa think its better to keep guys on the job cutting $$$$ from the rest of us. That is why we guys who support AMFA and want you Gone.

We don't want the Tulsa guys to loose their job, but we wanted a regional pay to work in the high dollar market cities but NO, NO, it is better for the T-town boys who have a $40k cost of living dictate to the $80K cost of living city mechanics.

"Thats why" , it has NOTHING to do with AMFA, it is all the concessions you guys have given up over all the yrs. The airlines are doing away with O/H bases, and all the unions are now falling to the companies cuts.

So all your spinning that AMFA is at fault, Nothing but a lie. IAM/IBT/TWU and amfa all have failed in this to stop the outsourcing of american jobs.

Why don't you guys get together and use all the power of labor to force the FAA and the DOT to stop the american jobs from going overseas, save the aircraft mechanics.

Don't tell us you are and that you lobbied to make those changes. Show us.. Tell your buddy Hoffa and Little to make that deal instead of selling us short. Oh by the way get the IAM to help and the AFL-CIO. Isn't that why we pay dues, or is it for you and Bobby G. and the others at the TWU Intl to get rich?

None of these cuts effect you,, so you really don't care. That's why we want you GONE.

AMFA at AA​