AMFA getting it done

[swamt]

Any concessions that were made did not result in the loss of more than 80% of the membership.

Agreeing to allow more outsourcing when the majority of your work is outsourced, that's a big concession brother. The AMFA record of "success" is no better than the other unions on the property at WN. Show us where AMFA scored a major win under tough conditions. Was it at AS? No because the OAK base got shutdown and AS wasn't even in BK! How about UA, did you stop further outsourcing of all the airframe at SFO? No because it all ended up in Korea and China.

At UAL the IAM allowed the outsourcing. At SWA the teamsters allowed all the outsourcing for many many years that they were here. AMFA never agreed to more outsourcing OS get it correct. The 4 lines of maint at El Solvador were 4 lines they removed from an MRO they were not happy with in the states. No increase in outsourcing, just changed MRO vendors.

 

[swamt]

Then tell us the truth of why when AMFA was at its peak they had over 20,000 members and now they have 3,000. Tell us the truth about the $500K special one time payment to OV when he retired after almost all his NWA members lost their jobs, half of the AS members lost their jobs (due to outsourcing after they ousted the IBT for AMFA), and the last remaining airframe overhaul was shipped out under AMFA's watch from SFO?Tell us the truth of how the great and mighty AMFA protected all those 15,000 plus members jobs.

Ok, I'll play your little game:
Your first questions answer; The only reason AMFA's numbers have dwindled is because of liers like you, OS, that come on here and post lies after lies just hoping someone will believe you. This is what the teamsters did at UAL, and the UAL membership fell for it, and are now regretting what they did. AMFA's numbers were never dwindled down do to outsourcing or agreeing to concessions. Matter fact they were dwindled by a union finally standing up to their employer that wanted to eliminate well over 53% of the membership. They voted to strike and took a stand for what the pathetic TWU has been agreeing to do with the company for years. The TWU "agreed" to concessions, rifs, lay-offs, pay cuts, bennies reductions, pensions being froze, ect ect...not only in 2012, but in 2003, as well as in the 90's.
Next Q: OV recieved a one time retirement package, yes, so what. It is still less than what your current leader has been paid by the TWU. Way less.
Your last Q: I actually have no idea what took place at AS with AMFA. I don't know if the teamsters agreed to the outsourcing then AMFA had to take over the current contract as they did that very exact thing here, they took over the teamsters language that allowed all the outsourcing in US as well as out of the country. Since it was done here I am sure it was done the same way at AS. But, like I said, I do not know the facts about it at AS.


Now I will throw your exact same question back to you; What happend to all the members that the TWU use to represent at AA? At one time the TWU represented well over 12-15,000 mechanics. I believe they are closer to 8,000 now and will be around 4-6 when this is all said and done. And get this, all of these reductions were agreed to (volenteered) by the TWU, no fight what so ever, "AGREED TO" for well over 3 decades now, explain that OS.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Then tell us the truth of why when AMFA was at its peak they had over 20,000 members and now they have 3,000. Tell us the truth about the $500K special one time payment to OV when he retired after almost all his NWA members lost their jobs, half of the AS members lost their jobs (due to outsourcing after they ousted the IBT for AMFA), and the last remaining airframe overhaul was shipped out under AMFA's watch from SFO?Tell us the truth of how the great and mighty AMFA protected all those 15,000 plus members jobs.

Overspeed

Tell us how much the intl officers of the TWU make annually and what retirement they will get.

They will get money from AA and the TWU and it won't be lost either or frozen along with thier flight bennies either. I bet the TWU insures the medical for them as well. We still don't know what the actual employee that is retired is going to have as of yet or the money that each memeber put in and the match that was theirs. Waiting on 1114 and judge to deside but Ed K is fighting for his Money. What is the TWU doing for my match money????

ASNWER THAT??????

Compare that to the money OV Delle femme made over his term as leader of AMFA and I would say the numbers just won't compare.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Ok, I'll play your little game:
Your first questions answer; The only reason AMFA's numbers have dwindled is because of liers like you, OS, that come on here and post lies after lies just hoping someone will believe you. This is what the teamsters did at UAL, and the UAL membership fell for it, and are now regretting what they did. AMFA's numbers were never dwindled down do to outsourcing or agreeing to concessions. Matter fact they were dwindled by a union finally standing up to their employer that wanted to eliminate well over 53% of the membership. They voted to strike and took a stand for what the pathetic TWU has been agreeing to do with the company for years. The TWU "agreed" to concessions, rifs, lay-offs, pay cuts, bennies reductions, pensions being froze, ect ect...not only in 2012, but in 2003, as well as in the 90's.
Next Q: OV recieved a one time retirement package, yes, so what. It is still less than what your current leader has been paid by the TWU. Way less.
Your last Q: I actually have no idea what took place at AS with AMFA. I don't know if the teamsters agreed to the outsourcing then AMFA had to take over the current contract as they did that very exact thing here, they took over the teamsters language that allowed all the outsourcing in US as well as out of the country. Since it was done here I am sure it was done the same way at AS. But, like I said, I do not know the facts about it at AS.


Now I will throw your exact same question back to you; What happend to all the members that the TWU use to represent at AA? At one time the TWU represented well over 12-15,000 mechanics. I believe they are closer to 8,000 now and will be around 4-6 when this is all said and done. And get this, all of these reductions were agreed to (volenteered) by the TWU, no fight what so ever, "AGREED TO" for well over 3 decades now, explain that OS.

Overspeed doesn't know what he is talking about.

The ibt wasn't at Alaska, AMFA took over from the IAM.

He continues to try and float the same lies about outsourcing at UAL after being repeatedly presented with the truth of what really happened.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The Time has come, for all of YOU non card signers to get with your AMFA Organizers.​

Go to AMFA-AA.com or AMFANational.org​

But sign a AMFA card.​

We are close to being seperated from the ramp and stores​

having our own class and craft union.​

Lets help the TWU and show them the Door.​

Wave Goodbye and say Thanks for Nothing.​

AMFA at American​

 

[CIO]

Amfa members lack the experience or expertise to represent the class and craft at AA. The Organizers here at AA have done nothing but destroy our profession.

All you have to do is look how the Amfa supporters who hold office in the TWU negotiated the last few years. Just think it will be the same individuals, just a different T-Shirt!!!!! But hey! You could be like Bob Owens or his sidekicks who blames everyone else and takes no responsibility for their short comings!!!! Collecting thousands of dollars from the TWU membership while tearing down the same organization they took an oath of office to represent. They are nothing more than pathetic group of individuals.

One thing to remember! The TWU is one of the few Unions who has been successful at retaining more work in-house than any other union/association in the Aviation Industry.

In Solidarity,

CIO

 

[1AA]

Amfa members lack the experience or expertise to represent the class and craft at AA. The Organizers here at AA have done nothing but destroy our profession.

All you have to do is look how the Amfa supporters who hold office in the TWU negotiated the last few years. Just think it will be the same individuals, just a different T-Shirt!!!!! But hey! You could be like Bob Owens or his sidekicks who blames everyone else and takes no responsibility for their short comings!!!! Collecting thousands of dollars from the TWU membership while tearing down the same organization they took an oath of office to represent. They are nothing more than pathetic group of individuals.

One thing to remember! The TWU is one of the few Unions who has been successful at retaining more work in-house than any other union/association in the Aviation Industry.

In Solidarity,

CIO

. Now that's funny. LMFAO. I see your at a new level of desperation to save your twu from extinction. Keep hitting the bottle. That's what you sound like on this board. A drunkin idiot. Twu is history. The teamsters just told little Jimmy to go to hell. They see money at the teamsters. Twu has lost control and it shows by your post. Chill out and enjoy the Amfa ride to success.

 

[comatose]

Amfa members lack the experience or expertise to represent the class and craft at AA. The Organizers here at AA have done nothing but destroy our profession.

All you have to do is look how the Amfa supporters who hold office in the TWU negotiated the last few years. Just think it will be the same individuals, just a different T-Shirt!!!!! But hey! You could be like Bob Owens or his sidekicks who blames everyone else and takes no responsibility for their short comings!!!! Collecting thousands of dollars from the TWU membership while tearing down the same organization they took an oath of office to represent. They are nothing more than pathetic group of individuals.

One thing to remember! The TWU is one of the few Unions who has been successful at retaining more work in-house than any other union/association in the Aviation Industry.

In Solidarity,

CIO

 

[Bob Owens]

Well AMFA must be doing something right. I got the ANTI Teamsters letter (3 pages) from our mighty leader Jim Little. It mentions AMFA once and the rest of the bashing is against the Teamsters. WOW all these months the TWU was quiet about the Teamsters raid and now he speaks volumes about the TWU and the raid from the Teamsters. I guess his plan to cause a diversion from the AMFA drive back fired on him. Hoffa stabbed Little in the back. Hoffa sees $$$ by going forward with the drive. Too bad he won't get enough cards. After all these years Little is getting a taste of what it is like to get screwed.

Think about it, you look at your paycheck, then you look at what your buddies are making over at UAL, Fed Ex even Jet Blue, would the letter really convince you to stay with Little or stop you from signing an IBT card or would it make it more likely that you would?

The IBT claimed they got 50% of Tulsa, the line has been looking to leave the TWU for years, while the letter may appeal to Tulsa why didnt the letter come out before the IBT reportedly collected 50% from Tulsa? Tulsa has always been the TWUs staunchest supporter against raids. It was well known that they were making progress in Tulsa, yet they said nothing.

IMO the letter was to make it appear that they are against the IBT raid. If anything I think the letter was written to get line guys to sign an IBT card because everyone knows that the line voted overwhelmingly against this deal and Littles arguements dont hold any water on the line. If this letter had come out before the IBT reported getting 50% of Tulsa it would have been more convincing, but I think this letter was intended to capitalize on the sentiment of the mechanic from LAX who posted a couple of weeks ago that he would gladly pay the extra $350 a year in dues to get rid of the TWU and he would sign a card for any union.

Nothing in the letter from Little would convince the line mechanics that working under the worst deal in the industry for 15 years was the right path for us or the $700/year they spend every year for the privilege of working under the worst deal is money well spent.

With the TWU on the one hand saying they are a Democratic Union then on the other hand saying that they do not care what the Line mechanics want and they are forcing us all into a Local based out of Dallas its unlikely that they really do not want you to sign an IBT card or expect that anyone on the line would change their minds and not want to see a change.

If Little really wanted us to stay he would allow the elected representatives come up with a plan to prove that the TWU is Democratic (allowing a body of people who the members did not vote for to remove those the members did vote for is undemocratic)and send Bobby Gless and Don Videtich back to the floor to live under the terms they helped put in place. Hey if its good enough for TWU members then it should be good enough for them as well. If they are so concerned about saving jobs then they would be glad to do it.

This letter comes out after the IBT ran into a lot of resistance on the Line as line guys told the IBT organizers that they believed Little and Hoffa were in bed together and AMFA announced they were very close to filing. Well if AMFA was very close to filing then why would the TWU concentrate on making it look like they were battling the IBT?

 

[Overspeed]

"Yes the TWU scales are lower but we also have more jobs in-house. At all those other airlines represented by the IBT and AMFA those airframe jobs that make $35 plus make $25 or less at an U.S. MRO and in El Salvador (where WN gets a big portion of their overhaul done) they make less $5 an hour."

Wrong again OS. The El Salvador maint is not a big portion of our overhaul. They are "restricted" to only 4 lines of maint per the AMFA nego contract. If we were still teamsters they would have unlimited lines of maint there as the teamsters had no such language to prevent it from happening.

I repeat, How many times has AA and the TWU agreed to lay-offs, rifs and concessions?? For well over 3 decades!!

And I repeat, the number one in pay airlines AS and WN are also the highest in outsourcing. Coincidence? No. AMFA has conceded the outsourcing fight. The TWU has not. Concessions? Was rolling over and not enforcing the outsourcing language constitute a concession? Yes. Face it, when it comes to keeping work in house AMFA has failed miserably. Over 15,000 jobs lost to outsourcing at NWA, UA, and AS. That's a MASSIVE concession when your job is now done by someone else for much less. Where all those UA airframes overhauled at? China. Korea. AAR. Yes and for much less pay. The TWU has not given up on keeping work in-house.

AMFA the union that has allowed more outsourcing than any other union period.

 

[swamt]

And I repeat, the number one in pay airlines AS and WN are also the highest in outsourcing. Coincidence? No. AMFA has conceded the outsourcing fight. The TWU has not. Concessions? Was rolling over and not enforcing the outsourcing language constitute a concession? Yes. Face it, when it comes to keeping work in house AMFA has failed miserably. Over 15,000 jobs lost to outsourcing at NWA, UA, and AS. That's a MASSIVE concession when your job is now done by someone else for much less. Where all those UA airframes overhauled at? China. Korea. AAR. Yes and for much less pay. The TWU has not given up on keeping work in-house.

AMFA the union that has allowed more outsourcing than any other union period.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again OS. AMFA has not allowed more outsourcing PERIOD. You can keep repeating your lies all you want. You are still not making a difference. You are only helping the AMFA drive. Again 15,000 jobs were not lost at NWA, UAL and AS do to AMFA allowing outsourcing. Keep trying OS, you will eventually go away just like your little cronies trying to do the same thing. LOL. Gotta love this stuff man.

 

[Overspeed]

Ok, I'll play your little game:
Your first questions answer; The only reason AMFA's numbers have dwindled is because of liers like you, OS, that come on here and post lies after lies just hoping someone will believe you. This is what the teamsters did at UAL, and the UAL membership fell for it, and are now regretting what they did. AMFA's numbers were never dwindled down do to outsourcing or agreeing to concessions. Matter fact they were dwindled by a union finally standing up to their employer that wanted to eliminate well over 53% of the membership. They voted to strike and took a stand for what the pathetic TWU has been agreeing to do with the company for years. The TWU "agreed" to concessions, rifs, lay-offs, pay cuts, bennies reductions, pensions being froze, ect ect...not only in 2012, but in 2003, as well as in the 90's.
Next Q: OV recieved a one time retirement package, yes, so what. It is still less than what your current leader has been paid by the TWU. Way less.
Your last Q: I actually have no idea what took place at AS with AMFA. I don't know if the teamsters agreed to the outsourcing then AMFA had to take over the current contract as they did that very exact thing here, they took over the teamsters language that allowed all the outsourcing in US as well as out of the country. Since it was done here I am sure it was done the same way at AS. But, like I said, I do not know the facts about it at AS.


Now I will throw your exact same question back to you; What happend to all the members that the TWU use to represent at AA? At one time the TWU represented well over 12-15,000 mechanics. I believe they are closer to 8,000 now and will be around 4-6 when this is all said and done. And get this, all of these reductions were agreed to (volenteered) by the TWU, no fight what so ever, "AGREED TO" for well over 3 decades now, explain that OS.

That is the funniest crap ever! Liars like me caused AMFA to fail. No liars like OV and all the other "professionals" like Seham screwed up. They thought that NWA would not even replace them. Give me a break! Liars like me. Look at your leadership at AMFA. They were in charge while I was working at AA. Weak brother, weak. But funny. HA!

Seriously, who was doing all the NWA work after their BK? Not NWA AMTs! They were mechanics at outsourcers not NWA. That means NWA jobs were lost to outsourcing smart guy. What about AS? Those 360 AMT jobs were all outsourced to MROs not AMTs at AS. Again, jobs lost to outsourcing on AMFA's watch.

So let me get this straight "fighting" for a job at AMFA is how those members lost their jobs? So that's called fighting? SO we should join AMFA to get that "fighting" spirit but we should expect the same result as all those other AMFA members whose jobs were lost being represented by a professional craft union. Nice brother. Winning argument there. Maybe you subscribe to the Charlie Sheen version of winning.

The TWU question is easy. In 2001 AA (newly merged with TWA) had over 800 aircraft. Now AA has around 600. M&R totaled around 18,000 after the merger. There were redundancies like most mergers and with the downsizing of the fleet jobs were lost but not due to outsourcing. Up until the BK all but 10% of maintenance spend was done in-house. Now the cap is 35% excluding overhead. The new language will still keep more work in-house than any other labor agreement in the industry. AS I said, AMFA is number one in pay and also the top in outsourcing. AMFA swaps jobs for pay plain and simple.

The new TWU agreement will still keep around 10,000 M&R jobs in-house for an airline of 600 aircraft. Compare that to the AMFA/WN agreement. 3,000 M&R for 600 aircraft at WN. So what's AMFA's plan? Get rid of 7,000 M&R jobs and be just like WN? Or is it some BS that we get to vote on our officers and AMFA will keep the TWU agreement in place? That's what AMFA has done at WN. All AMFA has done is extend the IBT contract. AMFA got their butts kicked since 2004 and has never recovered. So much for AMFA and their team of professionals.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And I repeat, the number one in pay airlines AS and WN are also the highest in outsourcing. Coincidence? No. AMFA has conceded the outsourcing fight. The TWU has not. Concessions? Was rolling over and not enforcing the outsourcing language constitute a concession? Yes. Face it, when it comes to keeping work in house AMFA has failed miserably. Over 15,000 jobs lost to outsourcing at NWA, UA, and AS. That's a MASSIVE concession when your job is now done by someone else for much less. Where all those UA airframes overhauled at? China. Korea. AAR. Yes and for much less pay. The TWU has not given up on keeping work in-house.

AMFA the union that has allowed more outsourcing than any other union period.

I'm just curious how long you're going to continue to lie about AMFA at UAL.

Heavy maintenance was lost under the IAM before AMFA set foot on the property. Anyone with 2 minutes and a search engine can verify this, so why do you continue to try to perpetuate a lie so easily verified as such?

 

[swamt]

That is the funniest crap ever! Liars like me caused AMFA to fail. No liars like OV and all the other "professionals" like Seham screwed up. They thought that NWA would not even replace them. Give me a break! Liars like me. Look at your leadership at AMFA. They were in charge while I was working at AA. Weak brother, weak. But funny. HA!

Seriously, who was doing all the NWA work after their BK? Not NWA AMTs! They were mechanics at outsourcers not NWA. That means NWA jobs were lost to outsourcing smart guy. What about AS? Those 360 AMT jobs were all outsourced to MROs not AMTs at AS. Again, jobs lost to outsourcing on AMFA's watch.

So let me get this straight "fighting" for a job at AMFA is how those members lost their jobs? So that's called fighting? SO we should join AMFA to get that "fighting" spirit but we should expect the same result as all those other AMFA members whose jobs were lost being represented by a professional craft union. Nice brother. Winning argument there. Maybe you subscribe to the Charlie Sheen version of winning.

The TWU question is easy. In 2001 AA (newly merged with TWA) had over 800 aircraft. Now AA has around 600. M&R totaled around 18,000 after the merger. There were redundancies like most mergers and with the downsizing of the fleet jobs were lost but not due to outsourcing. Up until the BK all but 10% of maintenance spend was done in-house. Now the cap is 35% excluding overhead. The new language will still keep more work in-house than any other labor agreement in the industry. AS I said, AMFA is number one in pay and also the top in outsourcing. AMFA swaps jobs for pay plain and simple.

The new TWU agreement will still keep around 10,000 M&R jobs in-house for an airline of 600 aircraft. Compare that to the AMFA/WN agreement. 3,000 M&R for 600 aircraft at WN. So what's AMFA's plan? Get rid of 7,000 M&R jobs and be just like WN? Or is it some BS that we get to vote on our officers and AMFA will keep the TWU agreement in place? That's what AMFA has done at WN. All AMFA has done is extend the IBT contract. AMFA got their butts kicked since 2004 and has never recovered. So much for AMFA and their team of professionals.

And watch what happens at AA. AMFA will prevail, watch and learn. You are still spreading lies and untruths. It all started with the TWU back in the 90's, not 2001 chiefy...

 

[Bob Owens]

And I repeat, the number one in pay airlines AS and WN are also the highest in outsourcing. Coincidence? No. AMFA has conceded the outsourcing fight. The TWU has not. Concessions? Was rolling over and not enforcing the outsourcing language constitute a concession? Yes. Face it, when it comes to keeping work in house AMFA has failed miserably. Over 15,000 jobs lost to outsourcing at NWA, UA, and AS. That's a MASSIVE concession when your job is now done by someone else for much less. Where all those UA airframes overhauled at? China. Korea. AAR. Yes and for much less pay. The TWU has not given up on keeping work in-house.

The TWU has not? Then why did we lose System protection? Which system protected workers are more likely to be impacted Line or OH? You know its OH.

How much do workers at AAR top out at? Don't compare their starting wage with our topped out wage, compare apples to apples. The starting wage at AAR is pretty close to what AA pays. The gap is less than the gap that Line mechanics at AA have with Line mechanics at WN or UPS. It could be argued that UPS got the wages they got by agreeing to outsource but they got $54/hr and nobody lost their job. UPS gives the guys at AAR something worth working towards. There is a $20/hr difference between UPS and AA, closer to $30/hr when you factor in Vacation, Holidays, sick time, work rules and the pension. Its not possible for the gap between Tulsa and AAR to be as big as the gap between AA/TWU Line maintenance and UPS Line maintenance. I say AA/TWU line maint because we should not forget that AA employs mechanics over in Europe that earn a wage thats around $10/hr more than we get, with more Holidays, more Vacation, more sick time and better health benefits.

Your argument is that the line should be happy earning much much less than other line mechanics because it allows guys in Tulsa to make a little more than guys at AAR. If this was really about saving people from RIFS the TWU would have said "ok to outsource but we are keeping system protection. As guys leave the company can outsource and never hire another mechanic but no mechanic with system protection gets riffed" which is what the current deal allows that anyway, however they could even lay off those who had system protection with what we agreed to. So this really wasn't really ever about saving the jobs of the people who are currently paying dues , it was about getting AA such super low wage rates that AA would continue to hire, because it was cheaper to keep it in house, thus keeping the number of people paying dues to the TWU up, but at the expense of lower living standards for all those members, both present and future while still allowing the company the option of laying off as far as they need to while still outsourcing anywhere from 35% to over 50% of maintenance spend. Jim Little and his teaam have as much determination to bring us to the top of the industry in wages and benefits during the next round of negotiations as they did in 2003, 2006, 2008, or 2012.