AMFA getting it done

[swamt]

Notice how the lies are getting stronger and harder put as the time gets closer to an election? LOL. Gotta love this stuff...

 

[Tex-Mech]

Amfa members lack the experience or expertise to represent the class and craft at AA. The Organizers here at AA have done nothing but destroy our profession.

All you have to do is look how the Amfa supporters who hold office in the TWU negotiated the last few years. Just think it will be the same individuals, just a different T-Shirt!!!!! But hey! You could be like Bob Owens or his sidekicks who blames everyone else and takes no responsibility for their short comings!!!! Collecting thousands of dollars from the TWU membership while tearing down the same organization they took an oath of office to represent. They are nothing more than pathetic group of individuals.

Your experience has cost me more money and benefits than any other mechanic, union or non-union has had to suffer. If speaking the truth to the members of the union is tearing down the organization, well you may want to consider what the organization is doing wrong, and not blame those who speak the truth. I for one have no problem with those in office across the system, except 514. It is 514 and the international that are the problems.

 

[Overspeed]

And watch what happens at AA. AMFA will prevail, watch and learn. You are still spreading lies and untruths. It all started with the TWU back in the 90's, not 2001 chiefy...

Watch what? I know I will have a job either way. If AMFA gets in and pulls a AS deal like they did at OAK and not enforce the scope clause then there will be no more airframe overhaul but I will still be working. Unfortunately many more thousands will suffer job loss at the hands of AMFA professional negotiators.

The TWU has not allowed anyone to lose their jobs to outsourcing all the way back to the 1990s. Even with the BK CBA more work will done in-house at AA than DL, AS, WN, UA/CO, and US period. And that my brother is a fact.

 

[odie01]

Jagoff !! See you next week Bob

 

[Overspeed]

I'm just curious how long you're going to continue to lie about AMFA at UAL.

Heavy maintenance was lost under the IAM before AMFA set foot on the property. Anyone with 2 minutes and a search engine can verify this, so why do you continue to try to perpetuate a lie so easily verified as such?

Your right. It can be easily verified. AMFA got in at UA in 2003 right? So if AMFA did not allow any outsourcing of SFO jobs then who was representing UA M&R at in 2005? Probably why AMFA got booted because they lie to their members and they had enough. The craft union failed them.

"United mechanics agreed to allow outsourcing of heavy maintenance on Boeing 777s and jumbo 747s to overseas vendors as part of a recent agreement with the money-losing airline, said Terry O'Rourke, spokesman for Local 9 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association in San Bruno."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/China-to-work-on-United-jets-Airline-to-2613734.php#ixzz2KYe74IGU

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Your right. It can be easily verified. AMFA got in at UA in 2003 right? So if AMFA did not allow any outsourcing of SFO jobs then who was representing UA M&R at in 2005? Probably why AMFA got booted because they lie to their members and they had enough. The craft union failed them.

"United mechanics agreed to allow outsourcing of heavy maintenance on Boeing 777s and jumbo 747s to overseas vendors as part of a recent agreement with the money-losing airline, said Terry O'Rourke, spokesman for Local 9 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association in San Bruno."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...p#ixzz2KYe74IGU

I was waiting for you or someone like you to try and spin this bit, sorry to say you're both ignorant of what went on at UAL.....and you're a liar.

First did you notice this bit in the article you linked in.......

""...United Airlines said Tuesday that it will outsource heavy maintenance work on the 54 Boeing- 777 aircraft in its fleet to China.
The work has been contracted out to a domestic vendor, Triad International Maintenance Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., in recent years..... ""

In recent years......yeah like when the IAM was still on the property.

Allow me to educate you on what AMFA did agree to.

Here is a link to our 2005-2009 agreement

http://teamsterssfo.com/items/2005_amfa_UAL_CBA.pdf

The contractual reference in question in this case is Article:II - F which you can see reads....

""..The Company shall not perform any regularly scheduled heavy maintenance, with
the exception of only B777 and B747 fleets, in a non U.S. location without the
Union's approval...""

Up until the AMFA agreement it had no exclusion for any fleet....ALL heavy maintenance had to be performed in the U.S, even when it was already outsourced.

All heavy maintenance had already been farmed out to DOMESTIC MROs, the only thing that AMFA agreed to was to wave the exclusions to the 777 & 747.

For this language modification, AMFA recieved verified and quantified costs savings credit during the second round of bankruptcy proceedings and saved our membership that amount in further wage/benefit cuts.

The work was outsourced under the IAM not AMFA.

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[Overspeed]

I was waiting for you or someone like you to try and spin this bit, sorry to say you're both ignorant of what went on at UAL.....and you're a liar.

First did you notice this bit in the article you linked in.......




In recent years......yeah like when the IAM was still on the property.

Allow me to educate you on what AMFA did agree to.

Here is a link to our 2005-2009 agreement

http://teamsterssfo....mfa_UAL_CBA.pdf

The contractual reference in question in this case is Article:II - F which you can see reads....



Up until the AMFA agreement it had no exclusion for any fleet....ALL heavy maintenance had to be performed in the U.S, even when it was already outsourced.

All heavy maintenance had already been farmed out to DOMESTIC MROs, the only thing that AMFA agreed to was to wave the exclusions to the 777 & 747.

For this language modification, AMFA recieved verified and quantified costs savings credit during the second round of bankruptcy proceedings and saved our membership that amount in further wage/benefit cuts.

The work was outsourced under the IAM not AMFA.

Again, its very simple. How many lines of airframe overhaul were in-house in SFO when AMFA took over? And how many are there now? Yes AMFA negotiated to give remove more restrictions on outsourcing that the IAM had already put in place. Big win AMFA. Big win.

The fact remains that even when the super cool AMFA language was put in place the outsourcing continued even though you "won" on the audit that proved that UA continued to outsource even more work while AMFA was on the property. The professional negotiators failed again at AMFA. So much so that the IBT finally removed the 20% cap language from the contract finally when the OSV arbitration was lost. So much for the killer outsourcing language written in by AMFA. The IAM saw a lot of work go in BK and AMFA did nothing to slow it but instead, even according to your words, fought for a contract that provided for fewer restrictions on outsourcing.

So you can argue that AMFA was under difficult conditions in BK but then when the TWU was faced with the same problem they got a 35% cap excluding overhead. The IAM, IBT, nor the mighty AMFA has not secured that type of language.

AMFA has overseen the greatest amount of outsourcing of work bar none. Look at AS closing OAK. What happened there? Nothing because AMFA rolled. What happened at NWA? Nothing because AMFA was too busy "fighting" for labor and forgot about that the hiring of replacement workers was possible. Professional job killers is what AMFA is, that's all.

 

[swamt]

The TWU has not? Then why did we lose System protection? Which system protected workers are more likely to be impacted Line or OH? You know its OH.

How much do workers at AAR top out at? Don't compare their starting wage with our topped out wage, compare apples to apples. The starting wage at AAR is pretty close to what AA pays. The gap is less than the gap that Line mechanics at AA have with Line mechanics at WN or UPS. It could be argued that UPS got the wages they got by agreeing to outsource but they got $54/hr and nobody lost their job. UPS gives the guys at AAR something worth working towards. There is a $20/hr difference between UPS and AA, closer to $30/hr when you factor in Vacation, Holidays, sick time, work rules and the pension. Its not possible for the gap between Tulsa and AAR to be as big as the gap between AA/TWU Line maintenance and UPS Line maintenance. I say AA/TWU line maint because we should not forget that AA employs mechanics over in Europe that earn a wage thats around $10/hr more than we get, with more Holidays, more Vacation, more sick time and better health benefits.

Your argument is that the line should be happy earning much much less than other line mechanics because it allows guys in Tulsa to make a little more than guys at AAR. If this was really about saving people from RIFS the TWU would have said "ok to outsource but we are keeping system protection. As guys leave the company can outsource and never hire another mechanic but no mechanic with system protection gets riffed" which is what the current deal allows that anyway, however they could even lay off those who had system protection with what we agreed to. So this really wasn't really ever about saving the jobs of the people who are currently paying dues , it was about getting AA such super low wage rates that AA would continue to hire, because it was cheaper to keep it in house, thus keeping the number of people paying dues to the TWU up, but at the expense of lower living standards for all those members, both present and future while still allowing the company the option of laying off as far as they need to while still outsourcing anywhere from 35% to over 50% of maintenance spend. Jim Little and his teaam have as much determination to bring us to the top of the industry in wages and benefits during the next round of negotiations as they did in 2003, 2006, 2008, or 2012.

Bob, not trying to step on any toes but, isn't UPS at 51 and change for top out?

 

[swamt]

Watch what? I know I will have a job either way. If AMFA gets in and pulls a AS deal like they did at OAK and not enforce the scope clause then there will be no more airframe overhaul but I will still be working. Unfortunately many more thousands will suffer job loss at the hands of AMFA professional negotiators.

The TWU has allowed everyone to lose their jobs to outsourcing all the way back to the 1990s. Even with the BK CBA more work will done in-house at AA than DL, AS, WN, UA/CO, and US period. And that my brother is a fact.

 

[swamt]

Watch what? I know I will have a job either way. If AMFA gets in and pulls a AS deal like they did at OAK and not enforce the scope clause then there will be no more airframe overhaul but I will still be working. Unfortunately many more thousands will suffer job loss at the hands of AMFA professional negotiators.

The TWU has not allowed anyone to lose their jobs to outsourcing all the way back to the 1990s. Even with the BK CBA more work will done in-house at AA than DL, AS, WN, UA/CO, and US period. And that my brother is a fact.

More and more lies. Wow! Can't believe you are still punping this crap out after you have already been proven wrong on all your above statements. BTW; the TWU did IN FACT just lose thousands upon thousands of employees due to outsourcing. But you keep telling yourself that they did not. You are in denile, you need help, hope your company has a program for you to visit, we call it clear skies here...

 

[swamt]

Again, its very simple. How many lines of airframe overhaul were in-house in SFO when AMFA took over? And how many are there now? Yes AMFA negotiated to give remove more restrictions on outsourcing that the IAM had already put in place. Big win AMFA. Big win.

The fact remains that even when the super cool AMFA language was put in place the outsourcing continued even though you "won" on the audit that proved that UA continued to outsource even more work while AMFA was on the property. The professional negotiators failed again at AMFA. So much so that the IBT finally removed the 20% cap language from the contract finally when the OSV arbitration was lost. So much for the killer outsourcing language written in by AMFA. The IAM saw a lot of work go in BK and AMFA did nothing to slow it but instead, even according to your words, fought for a contract that provided for fewer restrictions on outsourcing.

So you can argue that AMFA was under difficult conditions in BK but then when the TWU was faced with the same problem they got a 35% cap excluding overhead. The IAM, IBT, nor the mighty AMFA has not secured that type of language.

AMFA has overseen the greatest amount of outsourcing of work bar none. Look at AS closing OAK. What happened there? Nothing because AMFA rolled. What happened at NWA? Nothing because AMFA was too busy "fighting" for labor and forgot about that the hiring of replacement workers was possible. Professional job killers is what AMFA is, that's all.

As usual when OS is caught in a dead proven lie, he continues to spin, spin, and spin... The original facts all remain that the IAM was the union that nego or agreed to allow the company to outsourcing, not AMFA...
It still does not change the language that the IAM agreed to to outsourcing. When AMFA took over they inherited the IAM contract, there was nothing AMFA could do because the IAM had already agreed to it and signed off on it. Just because AMFA was on the property when UAL started the outsourcing that the IAM agreed to, does not mean AMFA agreed to it, PERIOD!!! Spin all you want OS no one out here believes you any more...You have been proven wrong every time.

 

[767 mechanic]

Denial is right he lied about how many docks of overhaul aa has. He forgets about KC closing and how many active docks they had when aa took over TWA. He forgets that AFW is shuting down and that in 2004 we told that there was 18601 mechanic and related. Now we only have 8300 Title I on the seniority list.

 

[Overspeed]

Denial is right he lied about how many docks of overhaul aa has. He forgets about KC closing and how many active docks they had when aa took over TWA. He forgets that AFW is shuting down and that in 2004 we told that there was 18601 mechanic and related. Now we only have 8300 Title I on the seniority list.

You quoted the number of M&R in 2004 and then compare it to just Title I? MCIE closed due to fleet shrinkage, you know that. There is closer to 10,000 on the M&R lists. AFW did close due to outsourcing. Nobody said it didn't. At UA SFO, IND, and OAK closed all but three overhaul lines due to outsourcing.

TULE and DWH have combined 30 docks that provide work for thousands of AMTs and there is approximately 30 docks doing SIP, Specials, LC, HC, MBV, and Mods. Those jobs are real.

The outsourcing at UA did start under the IAM but if you remember AMFA promised they would do better and they didn't. The outsourcing continued as Greg Hall pushed to drop all AO and Mod work while AMFA was there and they did not stop it. You all know that but you continue to lie about it.

 

[swamt]

Denial is right he lied about how many docks of overhaul aa has. He forgets about KC closing and how many active docks they had when aa took over TWA. He forgets that AFW is shuting down and that in 2004 we told that there was 18601 mechanic and related. Now we only have 8300 Title I on the seniority list.

Wow!! This is the first time I have seen these numbers. I knew they were large but did know it was this large. That's a 65% reduction in members for the TWU. And the reductions and lay-offs in 2003 happend outside of a BK filing. Let's see how he will attempt to spin this one off.

 

[Overspeed]

More and more lies. Wow! Can't believe you are still punping this crap out after you have already been proven wrong on all your above statements. BTW; the TWU did IN FACT just lose thousands upon thousands of employees due to outsourcing. But you keep telling yourself that they did not. You are in denile, you need help, hope your company has a program for you to visit, we call it clear skies here...

Show me where from prior to the BK CBA jobs were lost to outsourcing. The DOT F41 info shows clearly that outsourcing dropped and no one was laid off due to outsourcing ever under the pre-BK TWU CBA. None.

AMFA at AS? 360 M&R jobs (or half of AMFA's membership at AS) gone specifically due to outsourcing and AMFA did what? Nothing.

AMFA at NWA? Well they got played and NWA showed the "professional" negotiators how the RLA works didn't they.

AMFA fights? Yes. And gets beat down and bloodied. 80% of their membership gone due to outsourcing or the fact that the members were tired of their BS and switched to an industrial union (IBT). AMFA sucks plain and simple when it comes to protecting jobs.