AMFA getting it done

[Chuck Schalk]

You are the one who claims TWU destroyed the wages at AA, very easy to insinuate that AMFA would have done better. You are the ultimate politician. I like reality, not pie in the sky political b.s. Are you so politically involved or can you admit that any Union would have a hard time accomplishing anything if their Company lost $10.07 Billion in a decade?

saywhat

Look it up yourself, AA paid down billions in debt where did it come from? It had to come from somewhere right? then with all your wisdom explain to us how they were able to pay down their long term debt with nothing. It is in print for you to see. Why didn't the International pick up on that? How come the International did not pick up on AA assets in london and south america when the PBGC exposed them? the international is either dumb as a fox or just dumb!

 

[saywhat]

saywhat

Look it up yourself, AA paid down billions in debt where did it come from? It had to come from somewhere right? then with all your wisdom explain to us how they were able to pay down their long term debt with nothing. It is in print for you to see. Why didn't the International pick up on that? How come the International did not pick up on AA assets in london and south america when the PBGC exposed them? the international is either dumb as a fox or just dumb!

In 2003 AA had $13.13 Billion in long term debt and in 2011 $6.70 Billion in long term debt. You ever heard of making payments on your debt? You don't get to carry that debt forever. FACT, your company lost $10.07 Billion in the last decade and no Union could have done anything to stop the bloodshed. PERIOD. I am not familiar with all of your history at AA or with TWU but when I see B.S. I call B.S.

 

[WNMECH]

Answer the question, politician, do you really think that AMFA would haved fared better knowing $10.07 Billion was lost? Would it have been the same contract, No, but the money would have added up to the same amount. Be honest, I know politicians are not capable, so prove you are not a politician and tell me what you think any Union could expect from a Company that has lost $10.07 Billion in the last decade.

Let me explain myself to you.

I am only a mechanic at SWA.
I only came on this AA forum to defend lies being told against AMFA and to correct mis information when discussions involve SWA, AMFA or SWA mechanics.

I personally enjoy the freedom we get from controlling our own locals and negotiations and would like other mechanics to enjoy those freedoms also.

However, if AA does vote in AMFA, they would outnumber us and will be in control of AMFA national.
Our control and influence will be reduced and we will follow AA leaders at national.
Also if locals are combined then AA officers could be in control of the funds that our dues raised.
I hope that the AA guys would get their own locals but still I believe we would have to help them out financially until they could get on their feet.
There is no real positive for me or SWA mechanics in this.
Only the personal satisfaction of seeing the AA freed to make something for themselves as we have done in AMFA.

Now to answer to question.
I have no idea how they would have fared and don't claim to.

Now how about you explain how you have a dog in this fight?

 

[Rusty]

In 2003 AA had $13.13 Billion in long term debt and in 2011 $6.70 Billion in long term debt. You ever heard of making payments on your debt? You don't get to carry that debt forever. FACT, your company lost $10.07 Billion in the last decade and no Union could have done anything to stop the bloodshed. PERIOD. I am not familiar with all of your history at AA or with TWU but when I see B.S. I call B.S.

Would you explain your math, please? Perhaps you mean what they should have taken in verses what they did take in or something?

 

[saywhat]

Let me explain myself to you.

I am only a mechanic at SWA.
I only came on this AA forum to defend lies being told against AMFA and to correct mis information when discussions involve SWA, AMFA or SWA mechanics.

I personally enjoy the freedom we get from controlling our own locals and negotiations and would Luke other mechanics to enjoy those freedoms also.

However, if AA does vote in AMFA, they would outnumber us and will be in control of AMFA national.
Our control and influence will be reduced and we will follow AA leaders at national.
Also if locals are combined then AA officers could be in control of the funds that our dues raised.
I hope that the AA guys would get their own locals but still I believe we would have to help them out financially until they could get on their feet.
There is no real positive for me or SWA mechanics in this.
Only the personal satisfaction of seeing the AA freed to make something for themselves as we have done in AMFA.

Now to answer to question.
I have no idea how they would have fared and don't claim to.

Now how about you explain how you have a dog in this fight?

Ok, so you are just here to spread what things are like with AMFA, ok with that. My dog in this fight is that I believe in Unions and reality and what I see being preached by AMFA supporters is pie in the sky b.s. No truth out there that I see admiting $10.07 Billion in losses conntributing to the pain these men and women at AA have endured, only deceit.

 

[WNMECH]

Ok, so you are just here to spread what things are like with AMFA, ok with that. My dog in this fight is that I believe in Unions and reality and what I see being preached by AMFA supporters is pie in the sky b.s. No truth out there that I see admiting $10.07 Billion in losses conntributing to the pain these men and women at AA have endured only deceit.

So you believe that the TWU record at AA should be completely dismissed because nobody else could have ever done any better in your opinion.

That will have to be debated by AA guys.

But the basic structural differences of AMFA and the industrial unions are the reasons that I am hearing for why they want AMFA.

There is plenty of hyperbole on here but the straight out lies have come from anti-AMFA supporters.

 

[saywhat]

Would you explain your math, please? Perhaps you mean what they should have taken in verses what they did take in or something?

AA lost $10.07 Billion in last decade.
AA long term debt down $6.43 Billion from 2003 to 2011.
AA assets down $5.48 Billion from 2003 to 2011.

Seems like assets were sold to pay down debt to keep from going out of business. Money doesn't lie but apparently AMFA doesn't want to admit any role that losses at AA had with the bloodshed.

 

[saywhat]

So you believe that the TWU record at AA should be completely dismissed because nobody else could have ever done any better in your opinion.

That will have to be debated by AA guys.

But the basic structural differences of AMFA and the industrial unions are the reasons that I am hearing for why they want AMFA.

There is plenty of hyperbole on here but the straight out lies have come from anti-AMFA supporters.

I haven't seen any post stating that AMFA wouldn't have been able to stop the bloodshed, hence my posts. If the reality is that bloodshed would have happened no matter what Union was there but this is why you should change then so be it. I don't see that, I see AMFA would make it better and the losses by TWU over the last decade wouldn't have occurred. That is why I post, because the truth needs to be forefront, not an afterthought. AA lost their way since 9/11 and the employees ultimately have suffered, but if people think Union A or B or C would have made a difference, they are getting duped. Can a good Union leader accomplish things for the members? Yes, but that good leader could get things for the membership based on a lot of factors, none of them hinging on whether he is a leader at TWU, AMFA, IBT or any other Union.

 

[WNMECH]

I haven't seen any post stating that AMFA wouldn't have been able to stop the bloodshed, hence my posts.

Because no one knows and no one can prove it.

I have never seen any posts that AMFA would have stopped all the bloodshed.
I have heard of no AMFA generated propaganda claiming this either.

I have been reading this site a while and believe that these guys at AA are not stupid and know this.
They seem just beat down by all the concessions and are ready to take charge of themselves.

 

[Vortilon]

I haven't seen any post stating that AMFA wouldn't have been able to stop the bloodshed, hence my posts. If the reality is that bloodshed would have happened no matter what Union was there but this is why you should change then so be it. I don't see that, I see AMFA would make it better and the losses by TWU over the last decade wouldn't have occurred. That is why I post, because the truth needs to be forefront, not an afterthought. AA lost their way since 9/11 and the employees ultimately have suffered, but if people think Union A or B or C would have made a difference, they are getting duped. Can a good Union leader accomplish things for the members? Yes, but that good leader could get things for the membership based on a lot of factors, none of them hinging on whether he is a leader at TWU, AMFA, IBT or any other Union.

For a guy that supposedly doesn't care either way - what union wins representation for AAs AMTs, you are a persistent bugger. You are pissing up a rope here pal. Any one of us AMFA supporters here, could hand you your ass in a debate. People like you come on this BB and get literally curb stompted, and you keep coming back for more - using different alias'. How much are you being paid to be a troll on this board?

 

[saywhat]

For a guy that supposedly doesn't care either way - what union wins representation for AAs AMTs, you are a persistent bugger. You are pissing up a rope here pal. Any one of us AMFA supporters here, could hand you your ass in a debate. People like you come on this BB and get literally curb stompted, and you keep coming back for more - using different alias'. How much are you being paid to be a troll on this board?

Just calling B.S. on what I see as people that believe AMFA is the savior. I truly don't know every problem over at AA or profess to know what the TWU has or hasn't done for you. I just know some facts, and those include hefty losses at AA and no Union could have come out smelling like a rose when faced with what all of you at AA were faced with. As for out debating me, NOT ONE of you AMFA supporters has said anything about my posts on the huge losses at AA. In my book, it has taken me a very short time to not trust any of you. Please, one of you tell me that the losses at AA contributed to the losses the employees have endured. If you can't admit that you are a political puppet of AMFA and not facing the reality or truth of the matter.

 

[1AA]

saywhat

Look it up yourself, AA paid down billions in debt where did it come from? It had to come from somewhere right? then with all your wisdom explain to us how they were able to pay down their long term debt with nothing. It is in print for you to see. Why didn't the International pick up on that? How come the International did not pick up on AA assets in london and south america when the PBGC exposed them? the international is either dumb as a fox or just dumb!

You forgot one other reason. ON THE TAKE!

 

[WNMECH]

Just calling B.S. on what I see as people that believe AMFA is the savior. I truly don't know every problem over at AA or profess to know what the TWU has or hasn't done for you. I just know some facts, and those include hefty losses at AA and no Union could have come out smelling like a rose when faced with what all of you at AA were faced with. As for out debating me, NOT ONE of you AMFA supporters has said anything about my posts on the huge losses at AA. In my book, it has taken me a very short time to not trust any of you. Please, one of you tell me that the losses at AA contributed to the losses the employees have endured. If you can't admit that you are a political puppet of AMFA and not facing the reality or truth of the matter.

I answered you.
You are on some crusade to prove something that us not even in dispute.

I don't know that anyone has said what you claim is being represented.
That if AMFA where at AA then they would have come all the way through the last 20 years unscathed.

You claim you don't know all the problems at AA, but are all too ready to give the TWU a pass on their record.
What gives?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

All of the he/she said this about AMFA or any other union is what we as AMT's have been lead to believe as gospel. In most cases they are all similar.

The Reason why members of AA have supported the Movement to rid AA of the TWU is that the TWU has not looked out for the betterment of the AMT's. At Tulsa or the line stations. WE the mechanics of AA have had so many concessions put in place with a promise of we will get them next time. There is NO NEXT TIME, we will soon be merged with USAirways. The Mgmt of AA will be changed again. WE the employees yrs ago were lead to believe that we could be the best carrier and the biggest only to fall to third behind Delta and United. We helped AA purchase the MD80's now we are going to buy AA another new fleet., and paint the old fleet as well.

AA filed BK with lots of money in the bank, we gave all those concessions in 2003 to avoid it and still AA came back for more,,, when is it going to be enough? AA is the last carrier to contract out the Base maint. heavy checks. But it is the trend that all the airlines have. We may have Tulsa for now, but that will be gone soon enough. AA just isn't going to keep it. As we replace the fleet do you think AA is going to have the shops and dock workers in Tulsa just sit around? "NO"

The TWU intl has made so many deals with AA that they are almost one in the same.
DON V. Bobby G. and the rest can't be trusted any more. If any of the Tulsa guys are reading this think about it.

AMFA/IBT/IAM/TWU have not been able to stop the trend to contract work out. None of these unions have been in the forefront of the news stating the fact that our union members are subject to all the TSA rules yet the FAA and the DOT allow other countries to work on Amerian aircraft with out drug testing or background checks. The manuals of the US airlines are in English so are all these countries requirering the workers to read and speek english? I bet not. They take the side walls down strip the floors and then put it all back who insures that they are not shipping drugs or any thing else that could bring the safety of the aircraft into question?

I support AMFA for the following reasons.

AMFA is the only union which we can vote out the top guys.

AMFA is the only union we can be seperate from the ramp and stores.

AMFA is the only union that each member can actually sit in and observe negotiations.

AMFA does not just appoint people to positions, they are elected by the membership.

Just for those reasons alone we should take the chance vote in AMFA here at AA.

Jim Little, Jimmy Hoffa, Tom ?????? of the IAM can they be removed? "NO"

Can the Intl officers under each of these guys be removed either? "NO"

So do we want to replace the TWU with the same type of UNION? "NO"

Do you want to be in a local that has NO officers that belong to the ATD? "NO"

Do you want the Business agents who replace the TWU pres. at an IBT local to be appointed? "NO"

If you agree then Sign an AMFA card so that we can replace the TWU.​

 

[Boomer]

My ears always perk up when I hear someone say that letting the mechanics get involved and negotiate a agreement and then both sided ratifying that agreement as rediculous and unneccesary. This sounds like the IAM,TWU & IBT they always seem to know what is best for us but it rarely works out that way. I for one have no interest in joining the IAM pension scam I would like to keep my matching 401k and my frozen pension just the way it is thank you. finally you work for US AIrways so please do not tell us you believe anything Doug Parker says.

You don't know because you are not in, "the house of labor."