AMFA getting it done

[AMFAinMIAMI]

No matter what Union represents the combined carrier do AMR Mechanics really believe one of these Unions is better than the other? What is the driving factor of your need for AMFA? Seniority? Since the merger of US and AWA there has been little if any movement of USAirways Mechanics crossing over to America West Stations even though they were the junior group. Those on layoff from USAirways BK were not allowed to bump a junior employee from the combined system. All system openings are filled through the bid system and those on layoff either bidding a position or changing their recall station and waiting for an opening. Most of USAirways Mechanics who have been on furlough have moved on to other jobs, careers etc. Those who have been on furlough for more than 10 years are removed from the list, first BK 2012. Those who have been on furlough for more than 5 years have had their seniority frozen, last BK 2005. Could some of those Mechanics decide to return to work? Yes but they would all have to return through the bid system or backfill unbid openings. I just wanted to clarify this since the TWU made such a big deal of how they would PROTECT their members seniority rights. The system AMFA used at SWA is rediculous and unneccesary. Mechanics should be able to exercise their seniority by date of hire in all cases of furlough, base closures etc once lists are combined IMO. Whether you choose the TWU, IAM, AMFA or IBT we all will have to wait for (1) An Approved Merger, 6-8 Months (2) A Transition Agreement which didn't take place until 2008 (Almost 2 Years) in the AWA/U Case and (3) Or A New Combined Contract (Timeframe Unknown). Even if the choice is not different Union representation (TWU and IAM) this process will take years to resolve and throwing in New representation could take even longer. Beware what you wish for people. We do not have rotating shifts here. We have a Defined Benefit Retirement Plan. We have more holidays. The Transition Agreement will take care of differences between contracts that will benefit all its members. As the Number 1 Carrier we will all be paid accordingly per Doug Parker himself.

Just another BK

To answer your question why and what's the driving force behind AMFA.

I too have been in the industry a long time, I am now with airline # 5, all the other have closed.

The reason most of us want AMFA is to be seperate from the ramp & stores completely. Not having the same Union Officials negotiating for them and US. Being able to get rid of any UNION Official that does not look out for our best interest. The industrial unions IAM/IBT/TWU are just after dues. Not to say AMFA isn't either but it is a union of class and craft designated by the NMB. "YES" the IAM as you say has elected negotiation members, but are they part of the INTL of the IAM and are they removable from thier chairman positions? IF NOT then they don't have to live under what they get for the membership any longer. They draw a salary from the IAM Intl. They also get a pension from IAM that can't be taken away like yours and mine will be if AA or US air goes BK again. The IAM will look out for its Intl officials just like the TWU.

We as bottom of the barrel mechanics can sit in on negotiations can't do that with IAM/IBT/TWU either.

Just those reasons are enough for me and others.

AMFA at the NEW AA/USAir​

 

[700UW]

PSA didnt combine with Piedmont, US bought PSA and merged it into US Air, then US bought Piedmont and merged it.

 

[aapitbull]

First of all I am a USAirways AMT/INSP of 26 Years. I was originally with PSA, then combined with Piedmont, then combined with AWA. So I know how this works. I am not paid by anyone to express my opinion. First of all the IAM Pension Plan is not a scam. Thats just ignorant. However I am not opposed to getting back into a 401K either. Most retiree planners will tell you that a defined benefit plan is the better option. Mechanics getting involved with negotiations? Not quite sure what your getting at. The IAM negotiating committee consists of former Mechanics, Inspectors etc as well as District Reps. We will all have the opportunity to vote on representation and contracts. I was just asking why AMFA? What makes them better? Everyone of the possible Union choices have made concessionary contracts over the last 10 years. I'm not here promoting the IAM, TWU or the IBT. I could care less. I just want my wages to increase to #1 Carrier rates. The fastest way to get there is a Transition agreement between the AMR and U CBA's.

The answer is simple the Constitution, you have 2 contracts one between you and the company, this is the one we all know and one between you and the union that being the unions constitution. It governs your rights as a member almost all the large industrial unions constitution basically gives all the power to the leadership to make decisions appoint leaders and allows for letters of agreement to be entered into without the consent of the members. It allows the leaders to set their own pay and benefits schedules etc and you as a member are basically left without recourse if the union does not do what the majority wants, about the only thing you can do is vote yes or no on a contract but even that they use their positions to influence people by fear and intimidation to vote a certain way.

This is where AMFA is different the AMFA constitution gives all power to the members if a leader does not do what you want you recall him, does this happen a lot no but the reason for that is the guys know if they get out of line they will be recalled. It does not allow for side letters to be signed without the members approval and the salaries of the leaders are directly tied to the members if your salary goes up so does theirs if yours goes down so does theirs. Most of AMFA’s leaders still work on the floor at least part of the time thus no hiding from those you work for under these conditions you will be held accountable, something unheard of in these large industrial unions.

Political involvement AMFA does not inject itself into the election process and spend untold millions trying to get democrats elected they choose to lobby those who the people decide should represent them, after all spending millions trying to get democrats elected in red states is a fool’s errand our money should be spent on promoting Maintenance issues and making people understand that it effects us all when a good paying job goes overseas. But alas since the IAM TWU & IBTand the like have completely alienated the people on the right they make it their cause to destroy us, one only has to look at the demise of Labor under the AFL-CIO and their failed policy of politics since 1954. If you do you will see back then 34% of the population was unionized and today it is about 11% and only about 6% of the private sector this number has been in steep decline for years with no bottom in sight.

These are only a few of the differences of the AMFA constitution I would suggest you read it for yourself and compare it to those of the IAM IBT& TWU it will be crystal clear if you do. Finally I would suggest you look into the differences between a single company defined pension plan and that of a multi company plan as it relates to guarantees under the PBGC and that coupled with the fact if you and your wife die in a car accident or something all your money becomes property of the plan if you are in a 401k it goes to your children or estate I do not know the particulars of the IAM plan but I consider them all a scams unless you work for a railroad, but that is a story for another day thanks for the question.

 

[swamt]

Looks like AMFA is getting it done. Here's an update from AMFA-AA. Happy reading folks:

Your AMFA organizing committee has been quietly working hard behind the scenes to gather the necessary cards to get you an election. We have been very successful to this point, but the time has come to go public about things we believe you should know whether you support AMFA or the IBT. We would like to let you know that your committee has been working nonstop since 2004 on the list of bogus names and deceased people that were added to the voter eligibility list back then. We know the company and the TWU will add those names again to the list when we file this time. As you can see from the picture we have thousands of your cards, but equally important is we have thousands of documents to remove the bogus names that will undoubtedly be on the list and truthfully one is no good without the other. We are well prepared to win this challenge.​

The next thing we would like to share is when we plan to file and why. With TWU members frustration level so high, we had hoped to reach an overwhelming number of AMFA cards out of the gate and take the TWU out swiftly but that was compromised when the IBT showed up to split the vote. The reality now is neither the Teamsters or AMFA will reach the ultimate goal of 60% plus cards collected. We will however reach what we regard as a safe and solid number. We have done this by taking the list that was determined eligible in 2004 and adding the people AA has hired in the years since subtracting out the ones we have rock solid proof do not belong and finally submitting cards sufficient to cover the rest. Our major advantage as AMFA organizers is that we have maintained the list and did the research over the last decade, the IBT has not and is simply guessing how many will be enough. The Teamsters do not have the documentation that we have and they will most likely fall short as we did in 2004 if they file.​

Now for the when and why, as all of you remember the layoffs occurred between January and May of 2003. Hundreds of people have been eligible to sign a representational card while laid off with recall rights. It is important to note that every single passing week from January 2013, people lose their recall rights due to our 10 year limit for recall per the TWU contract. This culminates on May 16, 2013, when hundreds of people will lose their recall rights on that day alone. Based on this we would envision filing the week of May 20th. One of the reasons we come forward now is it appears the IBT does not know this based on their rhetoric and we cannot afford someone to file short because if they were to file short they would not get an election and there would be a one year bar put in place before anyone could file again. While we have fundamental differences with the IBT, we do agree on one thing and that is the TWU MUST GO.​

If you want a change in representation then sign and send in your AMFA card now. If you have questions about your card or would like to help in the final push. Please call 918-906-7112 and we will be glad to answer your questions.​

Floyd Looney, AMFA AA Coordinator​

Don Rodgers, AMFA Organizer​

Chuck Schalk, AMFA Organizer​

​

 

[WNMECH]

Am I reading this right?
If the IBT file before AMFA and fall short, then the IBT and AMFA both are locked out for a year?
If this is right then the IBT will probably file before AMFA (now that they have been told the exact date), just to lock out AMFA.

 

[1AA]

Am I reading this right?
If the IBT file before AMFA and fall short, then the IBT and AMFA both are locked out for a year?
If this is right then the IBT will probably file before AMFA (now that they have been told the exact date), just to lock out AMFA.

The part that is not mentioned is that AMFA can file within two weeks after the teamsters do. The Teamsters are money hungry. They will try to get the required cards. They could care less about the TWU or the AMFA. They only care about the money. So if they follow their own money hungry ways they will try to file with enough cards. They do not have 50% and they are still knocking on doors and soliciting guys at work.

 

[aapitbull]

Am I reading this right?
If the IBT file before AMFA and fall short, then the IBT and AMFA both are locked out for a year?
If this is right then the IBT will probably file before AMFA (now that they have been told the exact date), just to lock out AMFA.

To be clear the date that is important is the May 16th because we do not want to leave names on the list that will simply fall off if we nothing but wait as far as the Teamsters go if they before this date then we know they are coming up short on purpose to assist the TWU and that is on those who fell for their line of B.S. Our letter said we would envision filing on the week of the 20th could it be June yes but if everything goes as planned that is what we are shooting for with your help we will get there. That said anyone working for AA we need your card if you have not signed in the last 12 months so please get them in. We will be coming to Tulsa for a meeting soon we will let you know when and where and we will also be visiting a few of the small stations to clean up the stragglers see you soon.

 

[swamt]

To be clear the date that is important is the May 16th because we do not want to leave names on the list that will simply fall off if we nothing but wait as far as the Teamsters go if they before this date then we know they are coming up short on purpose to assist the TWU and that is on those who fell for their line of B.S. Our letter said we would envision filing on the week of the 20th could it be June yes but if everything goes as planned that is what we are shooting for with your help we will get there. That said anyone working for AA we need your card if you have not signed in the last 12 months so please get them in. We will be coming to Tulsa for a meeting soon we will let you know when and where and we will also be visiting a few of the small stations to clean up the stragglers see you soon.

I heard that there may have been an info meeting in Dallas (DFW area). Is this true? If so how did it go? Keep up the good work guys...

 

[Bob Owens]

Am I reading this right?
If the IBT file before AMFA and fall short, then the IBT and AMFA both are locked out for a year?
If this is right then the IBT will probably file before AMFA (now that they have been told the exact date), just to lock out AMFA.

Where is this coming from? It doesn't make sense to me because then any union could block a vote.

OK Union A hears that Union B is trying to raid. So Union A goes to an affiliated Union (Union C) and asks them to collect two % of their members to sign cards and file, Union C gets two percent of the members to sign cards and files, the NMB finds that Union C did not show an interest, that union(Union C) cant file again for a year. Ok , that makes sense, the members had no majority interest in Union C, but why would the actions of Union C and the 2% who signed cards for Union C preclude the other 98% from having Union B have an election? Why would their failure to show an interest in Union C prevent them from having an interest in Union B? Doesn't make sense. I'd like to see it.

If the IBT files prior to the date where the list starts to get reduced then we all know that the whole thing was a sham, they are simply trying to get AMFA to file early before the list shrinks, that they never really had any intentions on taking us away from the TWU. Why would they file early when by waiting it automatically increases the percentage of cards they have? In fact if the IBT files before the one year anniversary of when they started their drive we know its a sham, unless AMFA files first and they file within the two week period that was mentioned earlier.

The two week thing sounds right, that if one union files, and another files in two weeks then both would be on the ballot if they have enough cards.

I think that this one should be shelved right next to the one that says that if you sign a card for one union it cancels out any previously signed cards for another union. If that was the case then you wouldn't ever have more than two unions in a contest (since they all would have to have 50% +1 and the NMB clearly acknowledges that its possible to have more than two.

 

[Just Another BK]

I as a Union Member with the IBT (PSA) and IAM (USAir) have never been influenced through fear and intimidation That's total BS. I made well informed decisions based on the facts. Most of the Pensions plans mentioned be it the IAM, PBGC or even a 401K have secondary beneficiary options. Also the IAM Contract does not include Ramp (Bag Smashers), they have a separate contract. The IAM CBA includes Lead Mechanics, Inspectors, Mechanics, Planners, Cleaners, QA and MOC. Mechanics are the majority group with over 2200 of the 3500 total. BTW the SWA/ AT seniority list was not reached through mechanic participation. It was decided through arbitration, so the McCaskill-Bond Amendment isn't what its all cracked up to be. One other thing that bothers me is both the IBT and AMFA ambulance chasing mechanics who have been on furlough for more than 5-9 years. Granted they still have recall rights given there status if they have settled their dues obligations. But why should these people be top priority for the Unions to establish a card count. I wouldn't want these people influencing my career any more than a retiree ! The chances of these people getting back to work is few and far between. So much for the Unions looking out for those active employees !

 

[aapitbull]

I as a Union Member with the IBT (PSA) and IAM (USAir) have never been influenced through fear and intimidation That's total BS. I made well informed decisions based on the facts. Most of the Pensions plans mentioned be it the IAM, PBGC or even a 401K have secondary beneficiary options. Also the IAM Contract does not include Ramp (Bag Smashers), they have a separate contract. The IAM CBA includes Lead Mechanics, Inspectors, Mechanics, Planners, Cleaners, QA and MOC. Mechanics are the majority group with over 2200 of the 3500 total. BTW the SWA/ AT seniority list was not reached through mechanic participation. It was decided through arbitration, so the McCaskill-Bond Amendment isn't what its all cracked up to be. One other thing that bothers me is both the IBT and AMFA ambulance chasing mechanics who have been on furlough for more than 5-9 years. Granted they still have recall rights given there status if they have settled their dues obligations. But why should these people be top priority for the Unions to establish a card count. I wouldn't want these people influencing my career any more than a retiree ! The chances of these people getting back to work is few and far between. So much for the Unions looking out for those active employees !

You have know idea what you are talking about when you talk about SWA /AT both sides negotiated and voted the first vote failed they went back to the table got a new agreement and voted again this time it passed no abritrator was involved. the link below shows the results from the AMFA side you would have to look on the IBT sight for their results.

http://amfanatl.com/...hwest20Airlines

It has been nice talking to you but got to go get AMFA cards signed at AA no time to debate with you right now.

 

[WNMECH]

Where is this coming from? It doesn't make sense to me because then any union could block a vote.

Coming from my reading of the AMFA update that SWAMT posted.
It didn't make sense to me either, that is why I was asking.

Still the IBT filling early scenario can happen proving their raid is a sham.

I hope the 2 week thing is accurate, where AMFA can still file after them and still get an election.

 

[WNMECH]

BTW the SWA/ AT seniority list was not reached through mechanic participation. It was decided through arbitration, so the McCaskill-Bond Amendment isn't what its all cracked up to be.

How can anyone take anything you say seriously after you post this.

The SWA and Airtran mechanics did not go to arbitration.
We settled it at the table with complete mechanic participation.

 

[swamt]

How can anyone take anything you say seriously after you post this.

The SWA and Airtran mechanics did not go to arbitration.
We settled it at the table with complete mechanic participation.

Completely 100% mechanic nego at SWA/AT integration. I have no idea where he is getting that we went to arbitration.

 

[Just Another BK]

I'll have to double check with the Daylight Inspector who told me had seen a file this thick on the arbitration case. Let you know if I was misinformed. I was at the time trying to get some some information on Delta's Seniority Integration as well as United's. Couldn't find any info on Delta, but the IBT Seniority Transition Committee still working theirs out.