ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[AAA73Pilot]

You figure wrong, my old friend, in that ALPA is not a party in this arbitrated decision. If ALPA National is not a party of the decision and not even responsible for it, then how can they legally "fix" it? Perhaps you can enlighten us???

Almost a correct statement. National is a party to the award after the fact, in that they must defend the award as presented. I believe this is part of the C&BL's since it was negotiated under their merger "guidelines". Hence their major problem.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How many mergers in the esteemed Eastie history have not required the use of arbitrators??? Sorry, your logic is just too funny sometimes. You blame ALPA for something your own pilot group has failed at with every single merger in it's own past: avoiding arbitration. My god, sometimes you guys appear too senseless to be true.

Sorry, it's your conclusions that need reappraisal. It was pointed out that 2 groups in the same union should not require the use of an arbitrator. You're right though, we blame ALPA for being a weak association with no real policies. Whose membership is more than happy to feed on its own members for personal gains.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yup. ALPA's had about 50 years to fix this AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T!! Good reason not to trust them with the remainder of my career!

True, so very true.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The "others" haven't had the opportunity of merging with the East pilot group

Once again you have no clue or are in denial that your precious ALPA could really be the problem. The "others" are members of national unions with a merger policy. Not "guidelines" as we have recently learned.

 

[nycbusdriver]

ALPA National didn't take away your pension- your company and elected representatives did.
ALPA National didn't create Nicolau- your arbitration panel along with your pilot neutral were responsible for that.

One day when emotions subside you may understand better what has happened to you and how your career has become one without envy by the rest of the industry.

Yes, my career has become one without envy by the rest of the industry. And the way that happened was that the east management used YOUR compensation package as a target. At least we were at one time the envy of the industry pay-wise; you, on the other hand, were in the gutter from day one and never even managed to peek over the curb.

Whether you're right or wrong about ALPA National doesn't matter one whit to me anymore. I am STILL voting for USAPA.

Regards,
One of the 517

 

[Cactus Head]

"Any agreement negotiated by USAPA will be subject to ratification by a single vote of the combined pilot group. The stalemate will end and democratic principles will govern."

How can ratification by a single vote of the combined pilot group be possible? I thought the Transition Agreement established a basis for each entity to abide by? Is this not true? If USAPA wins, does that abolish the dual ratification agreement?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How can ratification by a single vote of the combined pilot group be possible? I thought the Transition Agreement established a basis for each entity to abide by? Is this not true? If USAPA wins, does that abolish the dual ratification agreement?

So far I have asked somewhat the same question. At the last ALPA road show in CLT, one of the attorneys said something to the affect "The TA will disappear". In addition the NMB ruled we are one pilot group, therefore, IMO, I believe you are correct. The requirement for separate ratification disappears.

 

[Cactus Head]

So far I have asked somewhat the same question. At the last ALPA road show in CLT, one of the attorneys said something to the affect "The TA will disappear". In addition the NMB ruled we are one pilot group, therefore, IMO, I believe you are correct. The requirement for separate ratification disappears.

So if a new contract gets ratified by the possible new majority, what protections are there for the West, especially if every West member refuses to pay dues. Along those lines, what are the legal obligations for a West pilot to even consider paying dues?

 

[Phoenix]

I voted for "Allow official union information and press releases ONLY." The official press releases are doing a fine job of illuminating the differences.

I'm not sure though if it is in ALPA's best interest.. if you haven't read the LEC update from AAA CLT then you are missing out. I would post it here as "official union information" but frankly its too embarrassing to post. Normally the sewage that festers in the halls of corruption never spills out in to polite company. But extraordinary pressures evidently squeeze it out and it is a bit surprising to find all expectations are once again exceeded. Lance's next letter will reveal that USAPA is responsible for global warming, the 911 conspiracy, halitosis, baby milk factory terrorism, and beached whales.

Well.. come to think of it there are a few whales that might need beaching.

Council 90 UPDATE #2





3/16/2008


THUGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD

 

[Phoenix]

It was a "Union Correcting Transaction"

I laughed so hard I was worried my ticker wouldn't last until the vote!

 

[flynomore]

Tonights Jack's Top Ten List states that if we are so bold as to eliminate ALPA, then we would be exposed to unspeakable danger due to A-M merger rules and the presence of Management at the table. Back in my bad old [and non union] freight dog days, the best of the worst had a seniority list based upon: drum roll please, date of hire. Even after a merger with an ALPA carrier that fragmented that part of the business to our sorry little company. I'll take that over what history has given me to date, Alex.

Below is a tonight's phone message. Ole Richie is junior to "Save Dave" so I never could figure his love for ALPA, but there ya go:

This is Richard Obermeyer with a US Airways MEC update for Sunday, March 16th, with three new items.

Item 1. Tonight we continue with "The Top Ten Reasons You Should Keep an Open Mind" with reason Number 5—The Danger of a Single AAA/AWA MEC.

For more information on this, listen to MEC Chairman Jack Stephan's new Chairman's message where he explains why our company would like nothing better than to see both MECs become one, because it would make for a single pilot group with a single ratification process, a combined operation, and a cost-neutral contract negotiated with USAPA. You can listen to this message by dialing the code a phone and pressing "2." His message will also be posted under What's New and emailed to all pilots.

We'll continue with this top ten list every night in order to offer you an explanation of why you should keep an open mind concerning what union will represent you.

Item 2. As a reminder, the Contract Hotline will be unavailable this coming week, from March 17th through March 21st. If pilots have questions that need immediate answers, they should call their LEC reps. Reps' updated contact information is on the pilots only website under "MEC Directory."

Item 3. The MEC Bus Tour will be in DCA on March 17th and 18th, and in CLT on March 19th and 20th. Please refer to the full Bus Tour schedule that has been emailed to all pilots and posted on the pilots’ only website under What's New.

 

[EastUS]

I voted for "Allow official union information and press releases ONLY." The official press releases are doing a fine job of illuminating the differences.

I'm not sure though if it is in ALPA's best interest.. if you haven't read the LEC update from AAA CLT then you are missing out. I would post it here as "official union information" but frankly its too embarrassing to post.

That IS indeed a "must read". Whew! I had not even the slightest idea that I was in such dangerous company! Just imagine the plight of the amazingly nameless "pilot" who was threatened with being met "in the parking lot" by USAPA Thugs, just for not wearing a lanyard! (Good, and fully reasonable strategic location choice for certain...so very, very few people transit the employee lots on any given day, umm..perhaps hour..well..maybe at least a minute or so = no chance of witnesses) Frankly..this just makes me feel pretty cheap, having foolishly given donations for my lanyard. Of course..the goon squads woulda' probably just beaten it outta' me anyway. I actually had to read that one twice just to believe that suposedly "intelligent" people could even write such garbage, and that it wasn't meant as an utter spoof. I'd think that even Dr Goebbels would be blushing from their latest. Anyone with even the slightest residual respect for Alpa needs to read that "stuff", and don't forget: These are Alpa's "chosen" in CLT..you know? = the ones immune to recall by the membership, and thusly, reflective of Alpa's highest "ideals" and "moral values" as established by Herndon.

Hmmm...Here's a thought: CLT reps. I'll pay for independant polygraphs for all of you. My standard five grand says that you're entirely full of lying BS, and nothing but lying BS, as is apparently proper for devout Alpoids. Wager's open boys. PM to this board at your earliest convenience. Defend Alpa's "virtue" and "integrity". You owe it to your constituents. "If" you're not lying, then; I'll offer, and do anything I can to help bring anyone associated with the slightest criminal misconduct to justice...including yourselves of course, should the results not favor your "position" 😉 Let's go with the good old sworn statement under penalty of perjury bit, followed by the polygraphs. Questions only regarding the statements/no tricks/straight up. Just think of all the votes for Alpa you would win by proving yourselves to be "honest" 😉 Failing that; I guess I'll have to start looking over my shoulder whenever in the parking lot. From your ranted imaginings; You guys have a serious dark streak within it seems.....and I'm clearly no longer safe from either side, since I often don't wear my ID/lanyard when going to/from my car. 😉

 

[end_of_alpa]

ALPA has nothing to do with the outcome of arbitrated decisions. As a little side note, in case you have missed this recenet development, arbitration in merger integrations is Federal law.

This is NOT federal arbitration. THIS arbitration is germane ONLY to ALPA mergers, not Federal. Go ask your lawyers. It's an INTERNAL union process.

Waiting for your lawsuit.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Ole Richie is junior to "Save Dave" so I never could figure his love for ALPA...

There's a good explanation. Ole Richie is one of the ALPA insiders and likely has his place on line for a cush Herndon job and will not have to deal with the Nicolau award before very long. If ALPA goes away, all those years of a**-kissing will have been for naught.

 

[ClueByFour]

Fourth, the certification of USAPA will resolve the paralysis. Consistent with the USAPA Constitution, our negotiators will seek a date of hire seniority integration as part of a single contract. Any agreement negotiated by USAPA will be subject to ratification by a single vote of the combined pilot group. The stalemate will end and democratic principles will govern.

That's not actually goling to happen (and stick). It's a shame they imply it will. Changing unions and forcing years of animosity because one wants to take a mulligan is hardly the sign of either integrity or any kind of leadership acumen.