ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[EastUS]

That's about the dumbest thing I've read here in a long time. First, two airlines merging that are represented by the same union should NOT require arbitration, except that in this case ALPA has no real or effective merger policy; and second, ALPA set ALL the guidelines for the arbitration, including the fact that the arbitrator could not use DOH as part of the criteria.

"First, two airlines merging that are represented by the same union should NOT require arbitration,.." Fully and sensibly agreed, but; that assumes the actual existence of a functional Union, versus some half-arsed "association", dependant upon "guidelines" and having only absurdly vague, "policies" and "processes" to offer anyone.

 

[prechilill]

That's about the dumbest thing I've read here in a long time.

Last I checked there were three pilots and an appointed arbitrator which came up with the Nicolau decision. Nobody from ALPA National had anything to do with it. Believe what you wish, though.

 

[prechilill]

First, two airlines merging that are represented by the same union should NOT require arbitration

How many mergers in the esteemed Eastie history have not required the use of arbitrators??? Sorry, your logic is just too funny sometimes. You blame ALPA for something your own pilot group has failed at with every single merger in it's own past: avoiding arbitration. My god, sometimes you guys appear too senseless to be true.

 

[EastUS]

Last I checked there were three pilots and an appointed arbitrator which came up with the Nicolau decision. Nobody from ALPA National had anything to do with it. Believe what you wish, though.

Given that notion though; there seems little to no reason to ever pay even a penny to Alpa in the future. It would better serve any/all pilot groups to simply have a panel of arbitrators at the ready...or obtain an actual Union. Please refresh my memory = Exactly what is it that Alpa supposedly even "does for a living"? The contemporary nightmare being so enjoyed by east-west pilots here hardly establishes any basis for the least bit of a cohesive, or even functional body at any level of administration. The "little difficulties" being likewise enjoyed on other properties during this time of merger-mania appear similarly impacted by Alpoid "efficiency" and "wisdom".

"You blame ALPA for something your own pilot group has failed at with every single merger in it's own past: avoiding arbitration. My god, sometimes you guys appear too senseless to be true. "
Standard Alpoid arrogance at it's best/worst. You evidently imagine "your own pilot group" as being synonomous with "Alpa"...Now..THAT'S a good joke, and I can understand the inherent humor.

PS: As an Alpa Rep yourself...is every BS, screw-up you make the direct fault of "your pilot group"? Are YOU, in actual fact "your pilot group"? Here's just a suggestion: When one seeks the collective will of ANY group..It's properly determind by actual membership input...I'm about to say an obscene word for Alpa sorts..might best cover your "ears" ie: Membership VOTES!! on issues

 

[oldiebutgoody]

How many mergers in the esteemed Eastie history have not required the use of arbitrators??? Sorry, your logic is just too funny sometimes. You blame ALPA for something your own pilot group has failed at with every single merger in it's own past: avoiding arbitration. My god, sometimes you guys appear too senseless to be true.

Yup. ALPA's had about 50 years to fix this AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T!! Good reason not to trust them with the remainder of my career!

 

[prechilill]

Yup. ALPA's had about 50 years to fix this AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T!! Good reason not to trust them with the remainder of my career!

OK. This is getting more weird by each of your posts. So your logic is, ALPA should have a merger policy which mitigates the chances two differing groups go to arbitration, yet the fact that your own pilot group failed to avoid arbitration in the past, ALPA national is to blame. And most of these pilot groups which USAir merged with involved other ALPA groups. Hmmm.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Twilight Zone...

 

[EastUS]

OK. This is getting more weird by each of your posts. So your logic is, ALPA should have a merger policy which mitigates the chances two differing groups go to arbitration, yet the fact that your own pilot group failed to avoid arbitration in the past, ALPA national is to blame. And most of these pilot groups which USAir merged with involved other ALPA groups. Hmmm.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Twilight Zone...

1) I fully, and completely understand that the East and DOH is the true source of all evil everywhere.
2) Alpa's "merger policy" is the direct result of collective genius that would leave Mssrs Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, et al struck dumb with awe.


Ok...Ummm...I'm pretty simple-minded at best. Would you kindly take a moment away from your Alpa duties and explain to me/us/all how high the threat of "All out Warfare" is within the AFA people around here for example? I mean..we ALL now "know" how completely absurd, and hideously unfair DOH truly is, and that all things are truly just "relative" in the Alpa universe (speaking of The Twilight Zone)...so: Gosh! How is it that the others around here have completely avoided such an obscenely huge debacle as we now find ourselves in?...even given that we're all "Fellow Alpa pilots".."Brothers and Sisters"/etc at that? Is it purely because the evil east pilot group wasn't involved? :blink: Umm..just possibly, at least a thought worth a moment's consideration..is that only the truly magnificent minds at Alpa have come up with such a workable, and acceptable set of "processes" that so enhance harmony and mutual understanding, but simply do not actually WORK.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

All the ALPA shills won't matter in a few days anyway. WOOHOO!

 

[prechilill]

How is it that the others around here have completely avoided such an obscenely huge debacle as we now find ourselves in?...even given that we're all "Fellow Alpa pilots"

The "others" haven't had the opportunity of merging with the East pilot group

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The "others" haven't had the opportunity of merging with the East pilot group

 

[EastUS]

The "others" haven't had the opportunity of merging with the East pilot group

Yes..That must be it. The extreme differences in length of service within the respective groups in AFA evidently didn't matter, in that they didn't have Alpa's esteemed "relative"wisdom to deal with...nor those horrible east pilots naturally...Those "foolish people" at AFA had DOH established as an obvious, and defined union protocal, and are getting along pretty well...established examples of DOH working are plentifull, but: Thanks for your time. I see things clearly now.

From "The AWA/Alpa Theory of Relativity":

First Rule: "It's relatively ALL about MEEEEE!!!!"
All other Rules and inclusive paradigms: See First Rule above.

 

[Phoenix]

I have not seen Chip in ages. Has anyone contacted him to let him know that he was almost correct about the UCT. His crystal ball was a little ahead of its time and wasn't calibrated quite right, as it appears to be a unique union transaction instead of corporate transaction. :huh:

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It was a "Union Correcting Transaction"

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow pilot,

As a reminder, USAPA will hold our fourth Road Show on March 19th from 9am to 4pm in the PHX Airport Terminal 4 Conference Room, USAPA Officers, volunteers and legal representatives will be in attendance to answer your questions.

Video from both previous Road Shows is now available in the Road Show section of the USAPA web site.

Thank you for your continuing support.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Dear Fellow Pilots:

We suspect that, at this juncture, most of you have already made up your mind as to how you are going to vote. For those of you still undecided, we would like to address the MEC Chairman's March 15 message which suggests that remaining with ALPA is the best way to "permanently fix" the Nicolau Award. We respectfully request that you consider the following facts:

First, ALPA Merger Policy creates a legal obligation for ALPA National to use its best efforts to implement the results of the seniority integration arbitration. By contrast, USAPA's constitution creates a legal obligation for USAPA to pursue seniority integration on a date of hire basis.

Second, in terms of the intentions of ALPA National, the Executive Council has already "passed" the Nicolau list to the Company and imposed trusteeships on, or provoked the resignations of, those who sought to resist the implementation of the Nicolau Award.

Third, ALPA is in a state of paralysis. The West MEC insists that the Nicolau Award must stand and has attempted (without resistance from ALPA) to initiate its own Section 6 negotiations. Meanwhile, the East's leadership has been gutted: The Philly MEC in trusteeship; Pittsburgh and Boston LEC's have resigned; our Negotiating Chairman and System Board Vice Chairman have resigned; and our Grievance Chairperson was terminated via role call voting. In view of ALPA National's legal obligation to implement the Nicolau Award, and its harsh treatment of the East leadership, this paralysis is unlikely to be resolved in favor of DOH seniority.

Fourth, the certification of USAPA will resolve the paralysis. Consistent with the USAPA Constitution, our negotiators will seek a date of hire seniority integration as part of a single contract. Any agreement negotiated by USAPA will be subject to ratification by a single vote of the combined pilot group. The stalemate will end and democratic principles will govern.

Fifth, USAPA's view that the DC Superior Court litigation to vacate the Nicolau Award was just a red herring and would not succeed (click here to read) has been confirmed. Former Negotiating Committee Chairman Doug Mowery advised pilots in CLT that the AAA MEC's legal counsel informed him that litigation had virtually no choice of success and was for the sole purpose of providing "leverage" to reached a negotiated settlement with the AWA MEC.

Worse still, the very same law firm handling that litigation provided a letter to the MEC Chairman, at his solicitation, stating that neither ALPA Merger Policy nor Allegheny-Mohawk principles favor date of hire seniority. (click here to read about ALPA's Legal Betrayal). When your own legal counsel can no longer be trusted, it is time to switch to a labor organization that will be controlled exclusively by US Airways pilots and will act solely in the interests of US Airways pilots.

So many of those who know ALPA best -- LEC representatives, negotiators, committee members -- have endorsed USAPA. Under ALPA, we have not only lost our self-determination, but we have also lost the leaders with the greatest integrity and experience. Only USAPA will bring that experience back and allow it to serve your interests.

Democracy, experience, self-determination. Let's move forward together, with USAPA.

Stephen Bradford
Interim President