AFA Labor Thread Aug 27- Union Issues Here

[flybynite]

Thanks for the info. I've wondering what has been going on with that.

Good luck to you all.

 

[cactusflyer]

Thanks flyby. We are gonna need it. Lisa and Jeff have their friends spreading all kinds of b.s. I don't know what Dorene is doing other than flying her line. My way of thinking is that they are all to blame for not giving us a united mec. They sold us a bill of goods when they ran and have failed.

Oh, and for all those people that Lisa managed to get all psyched up about section 6 talks and getting released to go in to self help. The section 6 negotiating people and the company are going to a meeting with the mediator in dc on Oct 6th. I guess she was talking all about it at the last union meeting and was saying we might be asked if we want a release and getting everyone all excited. SHE WONT EVEN BE IN D.C. AT THE MEETING! What the f is up with that? She wants us to do all this work and get united to force a release and she doesn't even tell the people at the union meeting that she won't be going to d.c.? Isn't it important our own MEC president be at meeting that is possibly one of the most important ones this year? Why wouldn't she be upfront and tell everyone that she won't be there? I'm sure the people on the section 6 team are great and smart and all that, but our president should be there. Let's hope there is a good reason why, but my guess is there is not based on past action.

WTF?

All you Lisa, Doreen and Jeff supporters, keep drinking the kool-aid. At this rate and with their direction I'll hold you all spots in the unemployment line that I'm already standing in.

RECALL THEM ALL!!!

 

[flybynite]

Does she give a reason as to why she won't be present at that meeting?

 

[drrstrav]

Thanks flyby. We are gonna need it. Lisa and Jeff have their friends spreading all kinds of b.s. I don't know what Dorene is doing other than flying her line. My way of thinking is that they are all to blame for not giving us a united mec. They sold us a bill of goods when they ran and have failed.

Oh, and for all those people that Lisa managed to get all psyched up about section 6 talks and getting released to go in to self help. The section 6 negotiating people and the company are going to a meeting with the mediator in dc on Oct 6th. I guess she was talking all about it at the last union meeting and was saying we might be asked if we want a release and getting everyone all excited. SHE WONT EVEN BE IN D.C. AT THE MEETING! What the f is up with that? She wants us to do all this work and get united to force a release and she doesn't even tell the people at the union meeting that she won't be going to d.c.? Isn't it important our own MEC president be at meeting that is possibly one of the most important ones this year? Why wouldn't she be upfront and tell everyone that she won't be there? I'm sure the people on the section 6 team are great and smart and all that, but our president should be there. Let's hope there is a good reason why, but my guess is there is not based on past action.

WTF?

All you Lisa, Doreen and Jeff supporters, keep drinking the kool-aid. At this rate and with their direction I'll hold you all spots in the unemployment line that I'm already standing in.

RECALL THEM ALL!!!

How do you know all of these details? Aren't you on furlough? Doreen may be, "hangs around" to see if she can be MEC Pres.

 

[Itestwell]

This is so pathetic. We have been without a merged contract since, well, since the merger, and these idiots are stealing documents from each other and honestly focusing on promoting a section 6 negotiaton on the West?

And people say that management is stalling and wasting time with regards to a new contract? Uh, no. What management is doing is sitting back and laughing as these clowns waste our time, screw with our livelihoods, and fight like children, all while enjoying the fruits of our separation (lower labor costs!) What an amateur operation out there.

Keep playing into managements hands. They have us just where they want us.

 

[Itestwell]

Much like the company counts on the union DOING NOTHING when it come to contract violations and scheduling issues. See a pattern?

Please list the exact contract violations and scheduling issues that the Company is committing that the Union is ignoring. I'm interested to hear.

 

[Itestwell]

Still have to get more than 20% active in the union, or better yet to vote on an CONTRACT (that everyone you talk to VOTED AGAINST)...... yet still passed overwhelmingly.

Wonder if that is the same 20% that going to uphold the contract when the F/As split from the pilots? Or the 80% that complain about issues but never get involved?

Things that make you go Hmmm?

Oh please. The only thing that is going to uphold the contract when we split from the pilots is the FA's knowing their contract. Period. Talk about things that make you go hmmmm...(or duuuuh)...

Every other airline is split, and they are able to live normal, productive lives. I think we'll be able to handle it, if we put on our "big boy pants" and learn the contract.

BTW, I received more "protection" from the pilots the other day: Did an int'l turn where we exceeded 8 hours of flying in 24 hours (due to bad weather). Guess what, they pulled the pilots and we continued on with a new cockpit crew! Gotta love that protection!

Time to leave that regional mentality behind. I know it's hard....

 

[hp_fa]

What management is doing is sitting back and laughing as these clowns waste our time, screw with our livelihoods, and fight like children, all while enjoying the fruits of our separation (lower labor costs!).

Truth.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Oh please. The only thing that is going to uphold the contract when we split from the pilots is the FA's knowing their contract. Period. Talk about things that make you go hmmmm...(or duuuuh)...

BTW, I received more "protection" from the pilots the other day: Did an int'l turn where we exceeded 8 hours of flying in 24 hours (due to bad weather). Guess what, they pulled the pilots and we continued on with a new cockpit crew! Gotta love that protection!

Time to leave that regional mentality behind. I know it's hard....

I am not going to argue the point with you that MOST of the F/As don't know THEIR contract. THEY DON'T. You made a case in point by your own admission.

I am also not going to argue that the COMPANY is definitely sitting back and laughing at the two remaining work groups yet to settle a contract (although for good reason).... and they will milk that cow as long as gives milk for free.

I will also agree with you is that while all this unrest and exploitation continues, we have our colleagues to the WEST.... and their MEC headed SOUTH pursuing Section 6 instead of earnestly negotiating a realistic, and livable joint agreement. You also have the EAST membership (IMHO) sitting back waiting for the PILOTS, the UNION, or another MERGER (god forbid) to end all this mess all the while without getting active because they think $43 a month in dues covers them. There is no free ride for any of us. Participate in the process - or choose not to participate at your peril. I guarantee TEMPE is not going to cough up a nickel without negotiating hard for it.

Where I disagree is that ain't going to happen without knowledge or participation withing the membership and the membership holding the union and the company ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. Also - I am not so sure that who is currently in their negotiating really has the backs of the membership. I just think there are far too many "career" LEC and MEC members deciding our fate and it is time for some new blood. People that have experienced how things are out on the line - rather than hearing it second hand from CREWS while they are flying back in forth from PHX to negotiate a contract thats now going on 4 years. That's all I am saying. Period.

With regards to a "regional mentality" (either directed at my comments or in general) I have a question for you: Where have you been the past 4 years?

This ENTIRE organization reeks of the micro managed regional airline mentality that you speak of from the top to the bottom. It wasn't always like that.

Nothing is going to change with regard to quality of life issues or work rules at US unless people start actively participating in the process and their livelihood (not a career anymore for any of us).

You made your case for splitting from the pilots....I know your position - I get it - and so does anyone else that reads your posts - but that act alone is not going to FIX the problems we already experience out on the line. IMHO all it will do is add to them and yet put cost savings over a safety oriented operation. Ask anyone who has flown split (and I have) and they will tell you it SUCKS. Adhering to FARs is mandatory but adhering to CONTRACTUAL obligations are optional - and they always seems to be the first to be violated. It seems you experienced that firsthand the other day.

If your naive enough to believe they are going to start generating great high paying trips if this happens - well you are just naive. They have the ability to do that now. But you can't PAD the hell out of the schedule for OTP and bonuses and also make high time trips. Of course unless you want all "one day turns" to the coast and 7 legs a day multi-day trips with 1 leg on the first and last day that still end up paying 20 hours for 4 days. Duty Rigs make trips efficient not separated ops or crews.

I for one am not going to sit back quietly and let my work rules and quality of life be eroded (anymore than it is now) because DL and UAL have split crews or that is the new mindset out in TEMPE. If it makes sense for the crews and the membership, and IF the company ABIDES by the WORK RULES - then I am all for it. But if you want to know what a "horse will do" - all you have to do is look back at it's track record. And this nag in TEMPE has a one way ticket to the glue factory.

Work rules can always be changed - everyone that has been here for more than 10 years knows that firsthand....and it is usually not for the better. Once something is given up - history proves we never get it back. I am in the camp of due diligence and proceed with caution because IMHO I have been here long enough to know the track record firsthand. I live it everyday I come to work.

You know the old saying "Be knowledgeable enough to hold two opposing viewpoints in your mind (even though you may not agree) and then have the wisdom to differentiate without bias between the two".

Have a great weekend.

 

[Itestwell]

I am not going to argue the point with you that MOST of the F/As don't know THEIR contract. THEY DON'T. You made a case in point by your own admission.

Pilots can't operate over 8 hours intl in 24 hours without adequate rest the following night. We can. (We had a short layover the second night). How are they protecting us again?

Then you have the EAST membership (IMHO) sitting back waiting for the PILOTS, a MERGER or the UNION to alleviate all of this this mess without getting active because the pay $43 a month in dues.

Sitting back? Huh? The only people sitting back here are the ones that are afraid to break away from the pilots. If you honestly think that the East pilots will ratify any contract with the NIC, you must be high. The only way a ratified pilot contract will get through will be when the West pilots become the majority through attrition, etc. Oh wait, it gets better. Wait till next year, when the pilots and the Company start fighting about the LOA 93 smackdown. Then, the East pilots will REEEEEALLY never ratify. Just make sure you are prepared to have this contract/ pay scale/ work rules for a long time, so you can stay with the pilots who "protect" us.

I commend the MEC for attempting to break away, split us off, and give us a contract we can afford to live on. Seems to me that MF is hellbent on getting protections same as/ better than the pilots, and won't send something out for ratification that doesn't contain those provisions. But please, by all means, hang onto the idea that we should stay with the pilots. We'll see a contract in 2015.

There is no free ride for any of us. Participate in the process - or choose not to participate at your peril. I guarantee TEMPE is not going to cough up a nickel without negotiating hard for it.

Well, you would be wrong. Do you ever email MF and see what the Company has been offering as of late? I think the shareholders are becoming a bit perturbed at this open contract nonsense, and the Company is finally looking to get something done. Only problem is, the "kids" at AFA 66 stealing papers and attempting to start Section 6. Brilliant, ain't she?

Where I disagree is that ain't going to happen without knowledge or participation withing the membership and the membership holding the union and the company ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. Also - I am not so sure that who is currently in their negotiating really has the backs of the membership. I just think there are far too many "career" LEC and MEC members deciding our fate and it is time for some new blood. People that have experienced how things are out on the line - rather than hearing it second hand from CREWS while they are flying back in forth from PHX to negotiate a contract thats now going on 4 years. That's all I am saying. Period.

Email MF with all your concerns, and ask him exactly what the Company has laid out on the table. He'll tell you. That way, you don't hear the "jumpseat facts", you get the real deal, whether it's something you like or not.

With regards to a "regional mentality" (either directed at my comments or in general) I have a question for you: Where have you been the past 4 years?

This ENTIRE organization reeks of the micro managed regional airline mentality that you speak of from the top to the bottom. It wasn't always like that.

You are trying to tell me that USAir wasn't always a "regional" mentality? Ever since I've been here, it has been. I mean, people that I fly with today still can't see why PIT closed. It was such a nice facility. If you are trying to pin the regional mentality on the arrival of the AWA folks, nice try. East was there waaaay before the West climbed aboard.

Nothing is going to change with regard to quality of life issues or work rules at US unless people start actively participating in the process and their livelihood (not a career anymore for any of us).

I am actively participating in the process. I am telling you there is life beyond being paired with the pilots. And, to date, nobody at other airlines has died because of the separation. Let's see what the MEC comes up with before shooting it down.

You made your case for splitting from the pilots....I know your position - I get it - and so does anyone else that reads your posts - but that act alone is not going to FIX the problems we already experience out on the line. IMHO all it will do is add to them and yet put cost savings over a safety oriented operation. Ask anyone who has flown split (and I have) and they will tell you it SUCKS. Adhering to FARs is mandatory but adhering to CONTRACTUAL obligations are optional - and they always seems to be the first to be violated. It seems you experienced that firsthand the other day.

Like I asked you in the previous post, please state the exact scheduling issues/ contractual violations currently in play that the AFA is not addressing.

If your naive enough to believe they are going to start generating great high paying trips if this happens - well you are just naive. They have the ability to do that now. But you can't PAD the hell out of the schedule for OTP and bonuses and also make high time trips. Of course unless you want all "one day turns" to the coast and 7 legs a day multi-day trips with 1 leg on the first and last day that still end up paying 20 hours for 4 days. Duty Rigs make trips efficient not separated ops or crews.

Fear mongering. Won't happen. Set limits as to how many legs per duty period, how many one day turns per day per base, etc. Again, every other airline is able to live with this, and enjoys much more productive trips than we do. Why is that?

I for one am not going to sit back quietly and let my work rules and quality of life be eroded (anymore than it is now) because DL and UAL have split crews or that is the new mindset out in TEMPE. If it makes sense for the crews and the membership, and IF the company ABIDES by the WORK RULES - then I am all for it. But if you want to know what a "horse will do" - all you have to do is look back at it's track record. And this nag in TEMPE has a one way ticket to the glue factory.

Work rules can always be changed - everyone that has been here for more than 10 years knows that firsthand....and it is usually not for the better. Once something is given up - history proves we never get it back. I am in the camp of due diligence and proceed with caution because IMHO I have been here long enough to know the track record firsthand. I live it everyday I come to work.

You're right. Work rules can be changed. They are changed through the membership, which voted overwhelmingly to approve these draconian work rules. As I recall, each and every BK concessionary contract passed in every base, with the exception of PIT. Lemme guess-- you voted NO?

You know the old saying "Be knowledgeable enough to hold two opposing viewpoints in your mind (even though you may not agree) and then have the wisdom to differentiate without bias between the two".

Have a great weekend.

Great saying. Point taken. I feel that I am knowledgeable, and will proceed with caution as negotiations continue. You , however, should take your own sage advice (which you have not done since this debate started on here), and not rule out splitting before you see any of the tentative plans. Or does the "old saying" not apply to you?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Please list the exact contract violations and scheduling issues that the Company is committing that the Union is ignoring. I'm interested to hear.

Scheduling 13+58 duty days and then making a van time 1 hour and 55 mins prior.
Contract says 1 hour prior.......

You can get off but are not pay protected.So why is the company allowing trips to be built with these tight of parameters?

Scheduling EXTRA positions with 13+55 min duty days, and 7+55 min hard time with a 9+15 RON Going in and out of FLA in the summer ......"Please don't call in ILLEGAL - we will have to CXL a full 321" So why is the company or UNION allowing trips to be built with these tight of parameters?

Again you can get off but are not pay protected.

Fly to FRA and then mechanical for 5 days while you have three other trips back to back afterward that get wiped out and they try to pay you actual time for the trip that cancels avoiding the 1 for 3.5 value and partial credit for trips missed.

Now you are short by no fault of your own - but again you are not pay protected for what the trips pay or should have paid.

Doubling up or Going out back to back - then you have a WX issue or MX issue - SCHED tries to replace you from your trip, but after long discussion and having to recite the contract reluctantly splits you back on your original trip then tries to pay it as if it was a "split trip" under section 10.
but you are not pay protected.

Can't still seem to pay a trip that has a deadhead in it at the correct value with 1 for 3.5

Can't say honestly that the union is ignoring these examples - but I can tell you - when it happened to me - I resolved these issues myself or by the flight crew only after the union couldn't, wouldn't, or even return a phone call...(well OK a week later).

Any of this sound familiar?
Think of what any of these examples would be like with split ops?

[Scheduling] "Are you refusing to FLY?"

 

[Itestwell]

Scheduling 13+58 duty days and then making a van time 1 hour and 55 mins prior.
Contract says 1 hour prior.......

I'm assuming this is domestic? Is this on a 9+45 overnight? Where do you have a van 2+00 prior? LGA maybe? At any rate, if the contract says 1 hr prior, why are you leaving 1+55 prior? Oh wait, because the company counts on us to do the "right thing". And people do it.

Scheduling EXTRA positions with 13+55 min duty days, and 7+55 min hard time with a 9+15 RON Going in and out of FLA in the summer ......"Please don't call in ILLEGAL - we will have to CXL a full 321" So why is the company or UNION allowing trips to be built with these tight of parameters?

Are they scheduling 9+15 RONS on paper? Instead of asking why the union is allowing these parameters to be built, maybe we should be asking why flight attendants are agreeing to fly the flights, without adequate rest, so a 321 doesn't cancel? :blink: When it cancels, that just might get their attention.

Fly to FRA and then mechanical for 5 days while you have three other trips back to back afterward that get wiped out and they try to pay you actual time for the trip that cancels avoiding the 1 for 3.5 value and partial credit for trips missed.

Now you are short by no fault of your own - but again you are not pay protected for what the trips pay or should have paid.

And you are telling me the union absolutely refuses to help you with this?

Doubling up or Going out back to back - then you have a WX issue or MX issue - SCHED tries to replace you from your trip, but after long discussion and having to recite the contract reluctantly splits you back on your original trip then tries to pay it as if it was a "split trip" under section 10.
but you are not pay protected.

The union won't help you with this?? Are you reciting violations here that have simply happened to you, or ones the union refused to help you with?

Can't say honestly that the union is ignoring these examples - but I can tell you - when it happened to me - I resolved these issues myself or by the flight crew only after the union couldn't, wouldn't, or even return a phone call...(well OK a week later).
Any of this sound familiar?

You can't honestly say the Union is ignoring these examples? I was asking you to list your abuses that you claim, in your post, that both the company AND the Union were ignoring. I don't disagree that we have maaany scheduling issues, as you listed. But I highly doubt the Union is ignoring these examples.

Think of what any of these examples would be like with split ops?

How would these examples be worse with split ops? Are you calling your pilot buddies up to help you solve your scheduling problems?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Pilots can't operate over 8 hours intl in 24 hours without adequate rest the following night. We can. (We had a short layover the second night). How are they protecting us again?

If the pilot's can't - you can't or shouldn't have ......worse comes to worse two words:
I'm Fatigued


Sitting back? Huh? The only people sitting back here are the ones that are afraid to break away from the pilots. If you honestly think that the East pilots will ratify any contract with the NIC, you must be high. The only way a ratified pilot contract will get through will be when the West pilots become the majority through attrition, etc. Oh wait, it gets better. Wait till next year, when the pilots and the Company start fighting about the LOA 93 smackdown. Then, the East pilots will REEEEEALLY never ratify. Just make sure you are prepared to have this contract/ pay scale/ work rules for a long time, so you can stay with the pilots who "protect" us.


I am not waiting for the pilots at all - I think it's great that MF has been exploring other "revenue streams" after 4 years it's about time. I for one would rather sit this one out. Because if they are finally willing to give the F/As something after 4 years - what's another year to see what shakes out. Honestly who even knows if this place is going to be around next year or if it will be called US. If the contract they come up is something worth voting for than I am all for it. You assume that I am unconditionally opposed to separating from the pilots - I am not because it could protect us from the wolves at the door. My feeling is If something does happen - we have a 50/50 shot . If PARKER is involved I would rather take my chances with a new entity.
[/b]
I commend the MEC for attempting to break away, split us off, and give us a contract we can afford to live on. Seems to me that MF is hellbent on getting protections same as/ better than the pilots, and won't send something out for ratification that doesn't contain those provisions. But please, by all means, hang onto the idea that we should stay with the pilots. We'll see a contract in 2015.

Ask MF and the MEC about why LTO is still being utilized over PBS and why was it ever allowed to be implemented? I got one thing to say about MF - When he comes up with a contract - then we all will have a chance to vote on it. At the current rate the JNC is moving WE WOULD BE LUCKY TO HAVE A CONTRACT in 2015 or when the pods are put on the wide bodies.

Well, you would be wrong. Do you ever email MF and see what the Company has been offering as of late? I think the shareholders are becoming a bit perturbed at this open contract nonsense, and the Company is finally looking to get something done. Only problem is, the "kids" at AFA 66 stealing papers and attempting to start Section 6. Brilliant, ain't she?


YES, YES, and YES I also hope they are as perturbed with the Dynamic Duo out WEST as as I am, but seeing as they appointed the entire BOD and they usually follow the (OUR) money I don't we are going to get any relief on that front unless another merger is on the Horizon sans Parker and Kirby.

Email MF with all your concerns, and ask him exactly what the Company has laid out on the table. He'll tell you. That way, you don't hear the "jumpseat facts", you get the real deal, whether it's something you like or not.

I have spoken to MF and and others in the UNION - bottom line they need to come up with SOMETHING to present to the membership one way or another - 4 years and it's not the pilot's fault either. I actually believe in a way the JNC has the same attitude I do - let's see what happens with the pilots before we just go and sign off on another POS contract like every other work group.

You are trying to tell me that USAir wasn't always a "regional" mentality? Ever since I've been here, it has been. I mean, people that I fly with today still can't see why PIT closed. It was such a nice facility. If you are trying to pin the regional mentality on the arrival of the AWA folks, nice try. East was there waaaay before the West climbed aboard.

PIT is a great airport and so is DAY, BWI, LAX,SAN, and SFO. They all were replaced when market conditions changed or when some in power made a really dumb decision for whatever reason. Too long a list. What's your point?

US= Allegheny / Lake Central / Mohawk / PSA and Piedmont all started as a regional carriers - and was making money hand over fist. We also due to Colodny "were narrowed minded and narrow bodied" but we made money. We took our hits, numerous mergers, the economy, SWA encroachement, the failed UAL merger, and SIEGEL all certainly didn't help - but I had EXPONENTIAL MORE CONFIDENCE IN ALL OF OUR PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT TEAMS (except Siegel)THAN I DO WITH TEMPE BUNCH (same caliber of management).

I am actively participating in the process. I am telling you there is life beyond being paired with the pilots. And, to date, nobody at other airlines has died because of the separation. Let's see what the MEC comes up with before shooting it down.

Agree, Agree, and no one is going to die (just our finances), just a matter of convenience and less drama.
Pilots certainly wouldn't be waiting on the F/As. When the words "DOH" was replaced with "career expectations" in the ALPA bylaws - it came at a huge price that was not foreseen. My thought is this radical changes to the contract needs to be examined and forensically inspected for all the pitfalls today and tomorrow to do anything less, well to to quote Former President George H.W. Bush: "wouldn't be prudent at this juncture".

Like I asked you in the previous post, please state the exact scheduling issues/ contractual violations currently in play that the AFA is not addressing.

See other post.

Fear mongering. Won't happen. Set limits as to how many legs per duty period, how many one day turns per day per base, etc. Again, every other airline is able to live with this, and enjoys much more productive trips than we do. Why is that?

Not fear mongering - reality or whats the term: Economically feasible

You're right. Work rules can be changed. They are changed through the membership, which voted overwhelmingly to approve these draconian work rules. As I recall, each and every BK concessionary contract passed in every base, with the exception of PIT. Lemme guess-- you voted NO?

Very Intuitive - and you would be correct. What are you saying? That the PIT domicile might have actually knew what they were voting on and they SAID NO? With age come wisdom - well hopefully and lord knows they were some seniority in PIT (and I was not one of them)

Great saying. Point taken. I feel that I am knowledgeable, and will proceed with caution as negotiations continue. You , however, should take your own sage advice (which you have not done since this debate started on here), and not rule out splitting before you see any of the tentative plans. Or does the old saying not apply to you?

Sure it does - or that would make me a hypocrite and since I am neither a politician or in management at US, it does apply to me.
Great - I have - I just am just a little jaded when I look at the company track record. Trying to be more "Fair and Biased....I mean Balanced"

Believe it or not - we are not all that different. We all wants what is best for us, our families and our co-workers. I am just operating on the premise DUE DILIGENCE, and I don't care if MF, Doug, or Scott all thinks it's the best for me - I will make that decision.

 

[cactusflyer]

How do you know all of these details? Aren't you on furlough? Doreen may be, "hangs around" to see if she can be MEC Pres.

Yep, I'm furloughed, but lots of my buddies aren't and some still manage to be able to get some time working in the office and they go to the LEC meetings. Before I was furloughed I was helping get signatures. I'm out in the 9-5 world now, but I still want to know what happens. When I do come back I want to know we've got good people in there looking out for all of us FA's. Last I heard, Doreen was up for recall too.

Maybe I heard wrong, since that's how rumors go, but I wonder why Lisa just didn't tell the people at the last LEC meeting that she wasn't going to d.c. for us? This is one of the most important meetings of the year for the west fa's.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

With all due respect Itestwell, it does not take 4 years to negotiate a contract. What I take great concern with is all the sudden the company is concerned about the pilots not reaching an agreement and that will stall our ratification, so that is why they purposed split language. If this company was so concerned about us reaching an agreement where have they been the past 4 years? As far as I am concerned, I am not giving this company one more dime of mine. If we vote to split from the pilots we will be giving this company a huge windfall of cost savings and efficiences, that right from the mouth of MF. I'm sorry why should we have to fund our wage and benefit increases that we have earned? Besides the fact that if they can make our pairings more productive so to speak, that means less flight attenadants they will need. Ex-our lines are built to the pilots legalities which we know is less than what we would have. 80 hours lines will now be built to 90 hour lines, do the math. Also add to that now our 80 hour lines will have some soft time(or claim,rig what ever you want to call it)built into that line. We won't see any soft time any more, you will be flying every bit of that 90 hours.

If you don't think they are going to run your butt ragged, guess again. Just because every other airline does it, doesn't mean we have too. If you want to use the well everyone else does it, ok everyone else is making more money then us too, everyone else stays in better hotels too, everyone else has crew bunks too. The list is endless.

I will NOT under any circumstances vote to a contract that contains split language. For the record, I am one of those dig your heels in the dirt and stand up to this company PIT people. I have put on that green shirt before and held a sign, I am fully prepared to do it again.