AAA Thread 10/26-11/1

[luvn737s]

. I don't want to hear what any union promises me. I want to hear what they can deliver whether it be good or bad. And right now no union is in a position to deliver much.

Bob

When the sole purpose of the new union is to screw 37% of the membership, they can't offer much in the way of true leadership. If they had a platform that dealt with the realities of the Nicolau decision, reached out to the west by addressing their needs, and provided strong leadership and more than "At least we're not ALPA", maybe they'd have a chance. But they chose to salt the earth.

USAPA tries to compare themselves to APA, but they conveniently forget that APA wasn't formed to codify their vengeance, but to better serve their members.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Why do you need new reps? Don't they always listen to the argument of the pilots

Ah, the classic dilemma of all elected representatives: do you do what the constituents want or do you do what you know is in their best interest? Your MEC failed to inform you (via the transcripts) that DOH wasn't going to happen and as a result you were shocked, shocked to see what you got. And yet there's no movement to recall your reps at the same time trusteeship comes closer...

 

[Piedmont1984]

For the same reason Prater humored you all summer before telling you unequivocally that binding means binding: he's playing for time. And like before, you guys never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

What a witty reply. You contradict yourself in the space of one sentence, no - less than one. Prater is telling us unequivocally, followed by Prater is playing for time.

In case you have spent the summer on Jupiter, time is what we need, time is our ally. As our atrittion opens new captain slots, those slots are going to our F/O's.

I pray that Prater continues to play for time. Say that three times fast.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Folks,

I have think we seen a good demonstration of how USAPA, illustrated by AAA73, will, if elected, conduct their business. No different than ALPA or any other organization!

From that statement you obviously have not been paying the slightest attention to anything I have posted. Our structure in and of itself guarantees that business will not be conducted in any way shape or form compared to ALPA. The right to vote on matters concerning our "Bill of Rights" is but one example. Followed by the voting structure and mechanism. How could you ever come to that conclusion? Would really like to know what posts gave you that. BTW. Thanks for giving me credit, but if you really want answers why don't you call USAPA for yourself.

USAPA supporters have free reign to say whatever they want without being encumbered by legalities. The obfuscation over the transition agreement wording just highlights that USAPA has no interest in telling the truth, recognizing the truth, submitting to the truth or most importantly telling those that they would represent the clear, unbiased facts.

Truth? Your truth or my truth? The obfuscation you say over the wording came from an LEC newsletter. By the way, I posted it starting off with FYI and a comment at the end about the MEC withdrawing the JNC. Where was USAPA mixed up in that? Once again your trying to tie USAPA to the MEC. Not going to happen.

USAPA, with the backing of their pilots, will do and say anything to twist the argument in their favor no matter if it is beneficial to their future membership. This is the same thing that the AAA MEC is and has been doing for years. It is the very thing that USAPA rails against yet they are already doing the exact same thing that they say justifies booting ALPA.

Sounds like my wife. And your doing the exact same twisting as you say we do. So I guess the campaign has already begun, huh? Can't wait to see what you and the rest of the ALPA backers are going to say. The failed Constitution and ByLaws of ALPA are just one of many reasons that justify dumping ALPA.

If USAPA is elected I would suggest that one of the first resolutions should be that no current or former ALPA MEC member, officer or committee volunteer is eligible to serve in the leadership and committee structure for a period of 10 years.

Thats another post you missed. The proposal in the USAPA Constitution and ByLaws will disqualify any sitting ALPA officer for a (?) period of time. That's the proposal anyway. Have already heard about the detractors by some from the west. So if the clause stands, by a vote from the pilots, it will go into affect. Have heard many different time frames.

We don't need a new union. We need fresh blood who hasn't been tainted by any union service. It doesn't matter if it is ALPA or USAPA. Once the realities of the situation confront whoever and whatever union is in service then the story changes dramatically from this utopia that USAPA advertises. The AAA MEC hasn't been dealing with realities and I am confident that the same old ALPA people who will be running the new USAPA will not deal with it either.

They will not be the same ole ALPA people. See above.

I'm not buying it. I don't want to hear what any union promises me. I want to hear what they can deliver whether it be good or bad. And right now no union is in a position to deliver much.

Bob

We do need a new union that has a goal of representing only one pilot group. Not 39 or however many are under the ALPA banner. Pattern bargaining was great if your the last group bargaining. Believe that was one of the many reasons for APA forming.
Deliver versus promises? You asked and answered your own question. How hard are you willing to participate? Ready to run for a block rep? Or any other office? It's up to you.

 

[Phoenix]

The Charlotte Reps make papa proud. Apparently they think decertification is a foregone conclusion if you don't pull your card to merely have a vote. I hope with PIT shutting down there will be enough of a change to... to produce a change in CLT. But then I will miss the humorous emails.

Council 90 Letter - Oct 27, 2007

10/27/2007

Fellow Pilots,

It is the opinion of your Charlotte representatives we are better served by ALPA in the search for solutions to the seniority and contract problems.

If you have turned a “cardâ€￾ into a competing organization and are having second thoughts about going through a decertification process on this property, you should call and have your card removed from the process.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Folks,

I have think we seen a good demonstration of how USAPA, illustrated by AAA73, will, if elected, conduct their business. No different than ALPA or any other organization! USAPA supporters have free reign to say whatever they want without being encumbered by legalities. The obfuscation over the transition agreement wording just highlights that USAPA has no interest in telling the truth, recognizing the truth, submitting to the truth or most importantly telling those that they would represent the clear, unbiased facts.

USAPA, with the backing of their pilots, will do and say anything to twist the argument in their favor no matter if it is beneficial to their future membership. This is the same thing that the AAA MEC is and has been doing for years. It is the very thing that USAPA rails against yet they are already doing the exact same thing that they say justifies booting ALPA.

If USAPA is elected I would suggest that one of the first resolutions should be that no current or former ALPA MEC member, officer or committee volunteer is eligible to serve in the leadership and committee structure for a period of 10 years.

We don't need a new union. We need fresh blood who hasn't been tainted by any union service. It doesn't matter if it is ALPA or USAPA. Once the realities of the situation confront whoever and whatever union is in service then the story changes dramatically from this utopia that USAPA advertises. The AAA MEC hasn't been dealing with realities and I am confident that the same old ALPA people who will be running the new USAPA will not deal with it either. I'm not buying it. I don't want to hear what any union promises me. I want to hear what they can deliver whether it be good or bad. And right now no union is in a position to deliver much.

Bob

"Ask not what your union can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your union."

 

[end_of_alpa]

http://www.charlotte.com/business/story/335040.html

"Parker said the company will negotiate with whatever union represents the pilots. "It's theirs to decide," he said."

THE PILOT WHIPSAW IS HERE. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

 

[end_of_alpa]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...725102007-1.htm

"US Airways (West) Pilots Respond to Company Third Quarter Earnings Report"

said Captain John McIlvenna, chairman of the America West Master Executive Council. "The America West and US Airways pilots have each contributed decades of superior service, always supporting our respective companies through bad times, and we intend to share in the success of the new US Airways moving forward."

AWA has contributed more superior service and is "decades" above US Airways pilots for now.

 

[exB717Flyer]

What a witty reply.

Thank you. Gives you something to aspire to.

You contradict yourself in the space of one sentence, no - less than one. Prater is telling us unequivocally, followed by Prater is playing for time.

Since you've already complimented my verbal ability allow me to give you some advice. When you say I've contradicted myself it helps if you actually can point out a contradiction. Prater has more than enough justification to put the AAA MEC in trusteeship right now. But knowing what a big deal that is he's doing CYA moves to ensure that if and when it does happen y'all can't claim it was done hastily. Now, while I heartily disagree with Prater's decision to indulge your tantrum over the Nicolau Award all summer, I do agree that there's no good reason to rush to trusteeship. It would just feed into USAPA's nefarious goals. No contradiction.

In case you have spent the summer on Jupiter, time is what we need, time is our ally. As our atrittion opens new captain slots, those slots are going to our F/O's.

Yes, I'm aware of your ill-gotten upgrades. If there's justice your selfishness will not be futher rewarded.

I pray that Prater continues to play for time. Say that three times fast.

Most of us on the West believe that if only your MEC would negotiate a decent TA with us we'd find out that the majority of AAA pilots would happily vote it in. You can easily prove us wrong yet you choose not to. USA320Pilot was fond of claiming 100% unity amongst the East pilot group without any substantiation. And look what happened to him.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Thank you. Gives you something to aspire to.Since you've already complimented my verbal ability allow me to give you some advice. When you say I've contradicted myself it helps if you actually can point out a contradiction. Prater has more than enough justification to put the AAA MEC in trusteeship right now. But knowing what a big deal that is he's doing CYA moves to ensure that if and when it does happen y'all can't claim it was done hastily. Now, while I heartily disagree with Prater's decision to indulge your tantrum over the Nicolau Award all summer, I do agree that there's no good reason to rush to trusteeship. It would just feed into USAPA's nefarious goals. No contradiction.Yes, I'm aware of your ill-gotten upgrades. If there's justice your selfishness will not be futher rewarded.Most of us on the West believe that if only your MEC would negotiate a decent TA with us we'd find out that the majority of AAA pilots would happily vote it in. You can easily prove us wrong yet you choose not to. USA320Pilot was fond of claiming 100% unity amongst the East pilot group without any substantiation. And look what happened to him.

First, it wasn't a compliment, it's refered to as sarcasm.

Second, when you admit that Nicolau tried to give a bunch of recent new hires out west the upgrade slots of our veteran F/O's - I don't expect such honesty from you - then you'll really be talking "ill-gotten gains".

Third, USA320 was the victim of corporate fear and intimidation, something we should all be angry about. But you wouldn't see it that way, reception is not too good on Jupiter.

 

[exB717Flyer]

First, it wasn't a compliment, it's refered to as sarcasm.

I'm aware of that. It gives me pleasure to deny you the benefit of your sarcasm.

Second, when you admit that Nicolau tried to give a bunch of recent new hires out west the upgrade slots of our veteran F/O's ...

Nicolau clearly explained his reasoning so I don't need to defend it. All I admit to is that Nicolau is one of the most qualified persons in the country to make the determination he made -- and you're not.

Third, USA320 was the victim of corporate fear and intimidation, something we should all be angry about.

To terminate a pilot the company must follow the contract. If warrented USA320Pilot will get his job back and that's the way it should be. But that doesn't mean I look forward to it.

 

[Phoenix]

Nicolau is one of the most qualified persons in the country to make the determination he made -- and you're not.

I am one of the most qaulified in the country to turn in my card to vote out ALPO, and Nicolau is not. The West should have negotiated, it would have gone much better for everyone.

 

[hp_fa]

The West should have negotiated, it would have gone much better for everyone.

Huh? Just what is it that you contend the West should have negotiated?

 

[Bear96]

I am one of the most qaulified in the country to turn in my card to vote out ALPO, and Nicolau is not.

Good gravy so vote already!

It has been months and you all are still walking around mumbling the same old "ALPA sux and if they're not careful some day we might take a vote or something. That'll show 'em."

So do it and get it over with.

 

[AWA320]

I am one of the most qaulified in the country to turn in my card to vote out ALPO, and Nicolau is not. The West should have negotiated, it would have gone much better for everyone.

Ooooh, I think you directed that towards the wrong group!!!! You see, oh highly qualified one the west position was one of FAIRNESS while the east possition was based on theft!!!