AAA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/5

[hp_fa]

Why do you think a new union must be staffed like the old?

I don't. But I do suspect that USAPA has, and will have, serious financial issues.

The company's hired professional negotiator (Glass) knows all too well in playing off pilots against each other.

Yes. Also, he has a huge advantage in that he has one single-minded entity to represent. Whoever is representing labor had many "clients", all with differing views, which can be exploited by Glass, et al., and he knows it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I don't. But I do suspect that USAPA has, and will have, serious financial issues.

That's your opinion and your're entitled to it. However, based on the projections, with only the east pilots paying dues in the short term, there will be enough money to accomplish sustaining a new union. Lawsuits included.

Yes. Also, he has a huge advantage in that he has one single-minded entity to represent. Whoever is representing labor had many "clients", all with differing views, which can be exploited by Glass, et al., and he knows it.

Like ALPA's collective association? Pattern bargaining? With professional negotiators we take that out of the mix. Not ALPA trained negotiators who have been out manoeuvered at every step with threats and fear mongering. A negotiator who can see without emotion what is being tried against them. Sign me up!!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Ah...the all knowing, mind reading, bug speaks laugh.gif Actually?...my very first thought was that it is a case of Alpoid shill work. I could certainly be wrong. There are always some self obsessed bums in any large group.

There are always some self obsessed bums in any large group....

USAPA shills at work too.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Issue 1
A Newsletter for US Airways Pilots October 3, 2007


Spend years trying to overturn Nicolau or a few months to secure career advancement, economic gains, and quality of life. Which makes more sense?

To US Airways Pilots:

While you will continue to receive Just the Facts publications that report on events and provide data and historical facts, the challenges that lay ahead also require you to analyze and make choices about your future. These decisions require judgment—not just fact determinations. Point of View recognizes that. While centered on facts, it also provides a perspective—largely based on the work of the Rice Committee in issue 1—that ALPA believes is important.

No one expects automatic acceptance of ALPA’s perspective. Rather, we ask that you do four things. First, analyze and think critically about these important issues. Second, discuss them with your fellow pilots. Third, challenge those who argue for a different course, just as you challenge us, to explain their plan for accomplishing the objectives you have outlined in polling. And, fourth and finally, decide for yourself which course offers the best opportunity for you and your family.

In Unity,


Captain John Prater
President




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1. What has happened lately?

Since the ALPA Rice Committee’s first report a few weeks ago, its members and Captain Prater have visited with East and West pilots; ALPA has received the results of polling conducted by the Wilson Center for Public Research; and the Rice Committee has continued to meet with each pilot group’s representatives to discuss both career advancement issues and contract negotiations. Pilot participation in the telephone polling was very high. Thanks to everyone who took the time to meet with us and talk to the Wilson Center.

2. What are pilots saying?

The meetings and polling provide clear guidance: the vast majority of East pilots want career advancement, economic gains, and quality-of-life improvements—not just a remote chance to overturn the Nicolau award. West pilots, while frustrated by the slow pace of developments, understand that a new contract to replace the one negotiated under ATSB constraints is the key to their futures, too.

3. Does ALPA support East as well as West pilots?

Yes. While ALPA’s Executive Council decisions last week did not adopt the East MEC positions, the Executive Council actions not only were required by ALPA Merger Policy, they also set out the only realistic way to achieve the goals outlined by a majority of pilots on both the East and West. In plain terms, they are to provide career advancement and obtain significant gains for all US Airways pilots—not frustrate East pilots’ desires.

One of the Executive Council’s decisions was to direct the resumption of joint negotiations. Resources and MCF funding were approved to support these activities. Joint negotiations, once resumed, can achieve both parity and parity plus within the process. ALPA National did not withdraw funds; East leadership declined to let their negotiators participate in the joint bargaining process for which the funds were authorized. We have asked the East MEC to reverse its effort to impose pre-conditions on the JNC process and to actively participate in the joint negotiations. If you are an East pilot, we need your help to make that happen.

4. What is ALPA’s plan?

The Rice Committee and the ALPA Executive Council believe there is a clear path within ALPA to career advancement, economic gain, and quality-of-life improvements for all US Airways pilots. More specifically, pay parity can be obtained by negotiating jointly with West pilots who have already voiced their support for retroactive application of common pay rates. Completed sections—yes, completed sections—of the new contract clearly confirm that substantial economic and quality-of-life improvements will be a reality. Those improvements, along with ideas being discussed in the Rice Committee, address both the career advancement and the economic goals laid out by both pilot groups.

5. Do pilots who want to replace ALPA have a plan?

You’ll find that pilots who advocate changing unions are suggesting something like building your entire football game plan around a last-second “Hail Mary†pass. Rather than focusing bargaining on the economic improvement that East Airways pilots and their families deserve and need, they argue for endless litigation over the Nicolau award with a slim to no chance of success, long periods where nothing happens, and, regardless of the outcome in court, years of your continued cheap labor while a new organization tries to unify itself, build resources, and negotiate changes in seniority with management. All the while, you’ll work longer under a bankruptcy-era or ATSB contract with diminished quality of life.

6. Can pilots who want to replace ALPA deliver?

Even if those pilots unveil a plan, can it be executed without the money, staff, and pilot unity that will be sorely lacking in a new organization? How will they fund their work when dues check-off for half of the pilot group is canceled and West pilots sue the union? Do you believe rumors that management will bargain with you over seniority changes and expose the corporation to years of litigation and potentially massive damages claims from West pilots? If management does so, won’t they ask for hundreds of millions from your pocket to protect against their litigation risk and to achieve a competitive advantage over costs at other airlines?

Some East pilots have said that they won’t “sell†their seniority. Those who advocate leaving ALPA had better start planning on how they will “buy†it from management.

7. Is ALPA’s plan realistic?

Other pilot groups are negotiating in the new economic environment, advancing their careers and helping their families recover from bankruptcy and ATSB hell. United pilots have a newly improved short- and long-call reserve system and more days off for reserves. Northwest pilots just negotiated premium pay and recovered deadhead pay at 100% instead of 50%. Delta pilots will be getting a pay bump on January 1, 2008. Alaska, Hawaiian, Continental, American, and Southwest pilots are bargaining changes to their contracts in a negotiating environment that looks more like the early years of this decade when US Airways pilots got pay rate increases totaling over 33%.

Without careful analysis and deliberate decision-making about the future, US Airways pilots (East and West) will miss this entire bargaining cycle and be frozen in time.

But it doesn’t have to be that way.

8. What will the single US Airways contract look like?

Improvements already tentatively agreed to show dramatic quality-of-life enhancements for East pilots. They include:

10 more days of vacation every year for pilots at the max accrual;

12 days off in a 30-day month and 13 days off in a 31-day month instead of the current 11 days off each month for all pilots;

10 immovable days off for reserves each month instead of the existing 4, and they can place 4 immovable days next to a vacation block;

a limited number of monthly cap flexes instead of an unlimited number;

a maximum number of 4-day pairings;

an improved definition of long layovers (over 14 instead of over 16 hours);

window or aisle seats assigned before middle seats while deadheading.

Economic improvements for East pilots already include:

lineholder guarantees that increase from 71 to 76 hours;

reserve guarantees that increase from 72 to 77 hours;

variable minimum pay that increases from 5:00 to 5:15 per duty period;

100% deadhead pay instead of the current 50% deadhead pay;

a new “long rate†trip rig that credits you with 5:15 of pay for a layover of 24 hours or more;

premium pay of 125% for incentive flying and 150% for flying that is involuntarily assigned;

an increased international pay override that applies to more than just transoceanic flying (for example, it includes the Caribbean and Central America);

monthly pay continuance at minimum bid period guarantee for Worker’s Comp claims instead of the meager state benefit.

Contract improvements will also benefit West pilots. Provisions that are either tentatively agreed to or close to completion include:

a new vacation credit system that permits pilots to maximize either pay or days off;

the option for pilots to fly ODANs (stand-up overnights) with 1-hour pay and credit for each 1:30 on duty;

a trip rig that pays pilots 1 hour for every 3.25 hours away;

a vastly improved trip-trading system that provides enhanced scheduling flexibility for West pilots;

the opportunity for pilots to voluntarily exceed credit cap by 9:00 in order to maximize pay by picking up additional flying;

better pairing-construction rules that maximize productive time and increase days off;

international flying rules that include duty limitations and an international pay override that applies to Hawaii flying;

a pilot-only retirement plan;

completion of vacancy bids in shorter time and a requirement that all bids be filled;

faster training in a new position or pay override that begins in the fifth month instead of the current rule that protects pilots starting with the ninth month.

Even if some of these issues are not of critical importance to every pilot, the changes indicate that significant compensation and quality-of-life improvements are not only possible in many areas, they’re certain to occur.

9. What about pay?

On pay, management has already offered to increase the current East narrow-body Captain rate from $124 and the current West rate from $142 to over $145 an hour. But that’s not nearly enough for either group. ALPA wants parity for East pilots and substantial increases that result in “parity plus†for both groups. In the earlier Rice Committee report, you heard about ALPA’s new Collective Bargaining Committee. Early work by that committee shows that pilot contract settlements for the next three years should provide narrow-body Captain end rates that range from $160 to $200 per hour. Wide-body Captain end rates should be pegged at appropriately higher levels.

Rates that fall within these ranges are reasonable to expect at a US Airways based on the changes being sought in ongoing Section 6 negotiations at Hawaiian, Alaska, and Continental—all of whose pilots already make more than East and West pilots. They are also within the range of existing rates at Southwest and recent settlements at UPS, FedEx, Frontier, and Air Tran (although pilots at Air Tran failed to ratify their tentative agreement). Management will have to realize and accept that the major part of contract improvements are simply merger costs that they should have accounted for at the time of the transaction.

10. Does ALPA support pay parity?

As we’ve already said, pay increases that provide parity and parity plus can and should be determined through joint negotiations and can be applied retroactively. West pilots and ALPA’s Executive Council support this goal. The Executive Council put its money where its mouth is by agreeing to fund a parity campaign through joint negotiations. But the more time that goes by, the harder it will be to successfully bargain either current or retroactive payments and get pilots the money that they and their families deserve.

11. What is the right level of retirement contributions?

Company contributions to DC plans at various carriers currently range between 10% and 17% of payroll. US Airways pilots—both East and West—are at the very low end of this range. You deserve and can expect a substantial increase in contributions under the joint contract.

12. What will it take to achieve these changes?

Tentative negotiating dates have already been set for October, November, and December, so only two things are needed to succeed:

The East MEC should return its negotiators to the bargaining table and engage fully in joint negotiations instead of boycotting bargaining and meetings called by ALPA’s president to facilitate negotiations and problem-solving;

The two pilot groups, with the backing of ALPA’s financial and staff resources, must start working together again toward common contract goals.

West pilots have already signaled their support for this approach in a resolution passed unanimously last week. It states that

the AWA MEC hereby directs our Joint Negotiating Committee members to work with the AAA MEC’s Joint Negotiating Committee members in pursuing a course of action that will: (a) complete this negotiation by December 31, 2007 through the JNC process; (B) include substantially improved pay rates for all America West and US Airways pilots retroactive to not later than September 1, 2007; and © continue to participate with the Rice Committee in achieving a joint contract for all America West and US Airways pilots.

East pilots should demand similar action from their representatives.

13. Is the Rice Committee making progress?

Yes. The Rice Committee has continued to explore consensual solutions that will promote career advancement and protection for both pilot groups. The talks have centered on career advancement, furlough protection for all pilots, and the “durability†of any possible solution in another company transaction.

But as the committee reported earlier, any solutions must be based on facts. For example, since the award was issued, the company has recalled all furloughees, and a large number of AAA pilots decided not to return. That reduces the number of Captain years that East pilots earlier argued were sacrificed in the award.

Recent system bids have also altered the look of the airline by providing Captain awards to many pilots—including E-190 Captain slots to pilots back from furlough a few months ago. Even if a new contract were finished today, customary implementation delays would produce further attrition vacancies for East pilots. West pilot frustration with this fact has to be considered and balanced by considering growth opportunities that will occur over the reasonably foreseeable future. These facts shed light on and give hope that consensual solutions are possible, but both pilot groups must participate fully for that to happen.

That’s why the Rice Committee has asked East representatives to provide more information and to review earlier analyses of the level of protection they assert is needed to accomplish East career advancement objectives. These requests are being carried out by the East JNC. The Rice Committee has demanded that the Company provide information about its growth and expansion plans to help assess whether and what kind of measures might be appropriate. Management has indicated that this information would be available around October 1, so we expect to hear from them soon.

14. Do you need more information?

US Airways pilots and their families can and should participate in the industry recovery. All it takes is for both pilot groups to commit to Rice Committee discussions and for both groups to engage fully in joint negotiations that move US Airways pilots back to mainstream industry rates and contract terms.

If you need more information on any of the above subjects or issues, please e-mail ALPA at [email protected]. Please give a phone number at which you can be reached in case the information can be better provided that way.





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Looks to me like the ALPA full court press is gearing up. The campaign is beginning before the election.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nothing against professional negotiators.....just a caution.......

Any negotiator is only as good as their client willing to let them be. Whoever the company's negotiator is, they represent one voice and have a single job - get the lowest cost contract possible. The company doesn't really care how that cost is spread among the various parts of the contract - the total cost is all that matters.

The union negotiator, whoever it is, effectively represents not the union but the pilots - in this case about 5000+ of them - who speak with many voices. Some care more about reserve issues and would accept less somewhere else for improvements there. Others want retirement benefits to be of prime importance, screw the reserve issues. Still others want pay more than anything else. So the union negotiator's job is almost infinitely harder, since whatever deal they come up with will be disliked by some segment of the pilot group. In the end, the union negotiator can only try to satisfy enough of the pilot group on enough of the issues to get a contract accepted for one simple reason - the company isn't going to ever give them a blank check to write a contract that'll please every pilot.

Which sounds a lot like every contract negotiated over the last 2 decades. At some point in negotiations, enough pilots are satisfied with enough of the proposed changes to bring out the "Let my daddy vote" sentiment - why hold out for further improvements which may or may not come and will only help someone else if they do materialize?

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Nothing against professional negotiators.....just a caution.......

Any negotiator is only as good as their client willing to let them be. Whoever the company's negotiator is, they represent one voice and have a single job - get the lowest cost contract possible. The company doesn't really care how that cost is spread among the various parts of the contract - the total cost is all that matters.

Jim

I don't disagree with you. Caution is very important.

I believe taking nationals' input out of the mix and do what's best for the local pilot is the best road to success. The balancing act used by our negotiators with the tied in emotions of being so close to the contract has sometimes led us to, "What is best for me, is best for all approach". Which may not, and usually has not been the case.

I know what I have had, now I'm looking to the future.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I know what I have had, now I'm looking to the future.

Not a thing wrong with that - one should always hope (and strive) for better.

All I'm saying is that your fellow pilots are at least as important to the outcome of any negotiations as who is doing the negotiating.....maybe more important. The problem isn't with saying "We should get the best contract possible", it's that "best" has as many interpretations as there are pilots. Meanwhile, on the other side of the table, "best" has but one definition - what's the cheapest overall. That in itself gives the other side tremendous leverage.

I repeatedly see the comments about how much better off WN, AA, FedEx pilots are with the conclusion that it's entirely due to their non-ALPA status. Neglected is that they weren't facing contract imposition via BK judge. So how about DL, NW, and UA - all in the same boat as East, facing BK with the same ALPA advisors. Why did they fare better than East? Could it be the pilot group that made the difference?

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Cactus never mentioned Southwest, you did. Further, he's not saying that we shouldn't make $200 and hour but what Cactus is saying is that we have a guy who is completely off the reservation by demanding a recall simply because that guy thinks our MEC is weak for not asking for the moon. The vast majority of West pilots understand that it's a stupid idea to think that the MEC should be replaced simply because they aren't radical enough. I know that is a foreign idea for many on the East who apparently prefer to bow before the false god of knee jerk radicalsm and then wonder why they lose every time.
And you do?
The only thing the West's actions post Nic are proof of is that unity combined with pragmatism is a winning formula.

Of course I've also mentioned Southwest...why not? Are they "better" than us and deserving of so much more? "..but what Cactus is saying is that we have a guy who is completely off the reservation by demanding a recall simply because that guy thinks our MEC is weak for not asking for the moon." Sigh....so accept your "managed expectations" then....sheesh. Another poster puts it nicely = "Your expectations..... have been managed into the the dirt".

"The only thing the West's actions post Nic are proof of is that unity combined with pragmatism is a winning formula" That last is so illogical that it bears some comment. In truth?..all you've seen from Alpo thus far is one astonishing, and clearly lopsided single arbitrator's idiocy that fully gives your side "the moon" if ever implemented. This has NOTHING to do with any "union brilliance", and the timidity shown via not "asking for the moon" should fully give you guys some clue as to how worthless these guys will be in any contract negotiations. Since you seem to believe that "asking for the moon" equates to being "radical enough"....don't expect anything great in the future...ever.

 

[EastUS]

I repeatedly see the comments about how much better off WN, AA, FedEx pilots are with the conclusion that it's entirely due to their non-ALPA status.
Jim

It certainly does bear some consideration Now; let's look at the groups that yet have pension benefits...outside of the "professionals" in the mighty Alpo upper echelon of non flying "pilots" and highly compensated office staffs that is. What do those with yet existent pensions have in common?....and; is such due to "the pilot groups", or Alpo's ready signature services for terminating pensions without even the briefest, and tiniest of fights? Only the poorest of "leadership" sorts blame the troops for lost battles whlst under their "command". :down: Any actual "leadership" requires the ability to "rally the troops" as well. Lost battles isnt' really appropriate. It's truly more of a case of having a history of Alpo wholesale surrender prior to the first shot even being fired.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Only the poorest of "leadership" sorts blame the troops for lost battles whlst under their "command". :down:

I guess it depends on one's definition of "the troops"......

Wasn't it your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) on the MEC who gave up the DB pension without a fight? Wasn't it one of your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) who coined the phrase "Go ugly early" to promote taking the company's first offers? Wasn't it your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) who hounded certain MEC members (AKA the troops) until they got a vote on a company offer? Wasn't it your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) who passed such things as E190 pay and LOA 93? Wasn't it one of your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) who had their daughter hold the infamous "Let my daddy vote" sign? Wasn't it one of your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) that promoted "giving far in excess of the ask" during LOA 93 negotiations?

In contrast, can you point to one of the many concessions thru the years that ALPA national forced upon the East pilots over their objections?

Seems like with troops such as that, even Patton would have been driven into the sea.......

Jim

 

[Piedmont1984]

The Piedmont pilots took a long time to get over the idea that labor and management were partners, both working in cooperation to acheive the same goals. Combine that with two bankruptcies, and I can understand how the mantra of "live to fight another day" came to prevail.

Piedmont in the early/mid '80's was a unique and special place. For many reasons, it just wasn't meant to last.

 

[EastUS]

I guess it depends on one's definition of "the troops"......

Wasn't it your fellow pilots (AKA the troops) on the MEC who gave up the DB pension without a fight?
Seems like with troops such as that, even Patton would have been driven into the sea.......

Jim

) I hardly consider any Alpo full timers as "fellow pilots" by any possilbe definition.

2) There's clearly no danger of mistaking any Alpo "leaders" for having ANY of the attributes of General Patton :blink: I'm striving mightilly to recall any speech by him that included ANY reference towards "managing expectations"

 

[BoeingBoy]

) I hardly consieder any Alpo full timers as "fellow pilots" by any possilbe definition.

The MEC "full timers" (officers) voted on almost none of those issues, other than as individual pilots with their single vote like every other pilot. The LEC reps (AKA the troops) were both elected and kept in office by the line pilots (AKA the troops). So what you're saying is that the troops elected the leaders, kept the leaders in office despite sometimes not liking what the leaders did, sometimes demanded actions of the leaders, yet shares no responsibility for the outcome......

Jim

 

[EastUS]

The MEC "full timers" (officers) voted on almost none of those issues, other than as individual pilots with their single vote like every other pilot.
Jim

Spare me the standard "It ain't really Alpo's fault"..."the idiot politicians up there are only there because you guys elected them"/etc. I cannot recall even hearing Prater's name prior to his becoming emperor of Alpo...and certainly didn't vote for him....as none of us low-life /line-pilots did or could. As per the pension-ectomy? I'd have cheerfully personally strangled anyone about to sign over the futures/pensions of our group without any allowed membership vote. Show me ONE line pilot that could have had any notion that such an obscene sell out, behind closed doors and without membership input, was forthcoming?...........so much for "fellow pilots".

 

[BoeingBoy]

Possibly between your outbursts, you'll notice that I never included anyone at national among "your fellow pilots". I'll ask again - name one of the many concessions over the years that ALPA national forced upon the US pilots over the objections of the MEC and/or pilot group.

Your argument is with your fellow pilots, including those on the MEC. Refusing to recognize the MEC as your fellow pilots is immaterial since they're on the same seniority list you are and are thus in fact your fellow pilots. You and your fellow pilots (myself included before I retired) voted in a democratic system. The majority of your fellow pilots who bothered to vote decided the outcome of all those issues, either directly with their vote on the issue at hand or indirectly thru their election of LEC reps.

Any two year old can point fingers when they don't like an outcome. It takes a man to admit responsibility for the results of his actions or inactions.

Jim