US Pilots Labor Thread 8/20-8/27- NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[des nudo]

The end of the Civil War?! You're kidding.. already?

Who knew? I think that is gonna require some corroboration.

Impossible under the circumstances.

No more talking.

They're right...it's over.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

In a word...yes.

Too much has been stolen from the East over the years...from the management AND from ALPA shills who hid behind closed doors and inked deals that extinguished careers. Nicolau did the same. The fact that the ALPA process led up to that is academic. Under scrutiny, the defection from "published" ALPA policy by Nicolau will be illuminated. More importantly, as john-john stated, the larger legal issue of union authority will be examined by a higher court.

Either way, it's worth it...no more freebies.

That's all in your imaginations. In reality you guys just keep digging, and further cementing your standing in the history books.

 

[des nudo]

That's all in your imaginations. In reality you guys just keep digging, and further cementing your standing in the history books.

Thats done, pal.

The age of "freebies" is over.

Too bad Nicolau gave you a key that opens no lock.

No more talk. No more discussion

 

[aquagreen73s]

The rest of the US Airways pilots who gain nothing through further impass - which is a clear majority - think otherwise. The problem for the Angry Core is that they're out of ammo, out of legitimacy, and out of credibility. They hoodwinked the balance of East pilots to join them on their crusade by promising a lot, i.e. a quick, joint contract that included hefty payraises and work rule improvements. Reality is that a lot has been sacrificed on the belief that a snake-oil salesman would deliver the money and the DOH seniority. Now we know that DOH is an impossibility and with each passing month, Group II captains are losing upwards of $3,000 a month. Why on Earth would they continue this insane impass?

It's over.

 

[Barrister]

The rest of the US Airways pilots who gain nothing through further impass - which is a clear majority - think otherwise. The problem for the Angry Core is that they're out of ammo, out of legitimacy, and out of credibility. They hoodwinked the balance of East pilots to join them on their crusade by promising a lot, i.e. a quick, joint contract that included hefty payraises and work rule improvements. Reality is that a lot has been sacrificed on the belief that a snake-oil salesman would deliver the money and the DOH seniority. Now we know that DOH is an impossibility and with each passing month, Group II captains are losing upwards of $3,000 a month. Why on Earth would they continue this insane impass?

It's over.

You aren't paying attention. We will get our raises by moving up through attrition. 200-250 a year move up starting in about 2 years.

 

[des nudo]

You aren't paying attention. We will get our raises by moving up through attrition. 200-250 a year move up starting in about 2 years.

Indeed.

Interesting that the "interested east" asks for a time-out whist they measure their goods.
( Attrition) The west plow ahead with the "agenda"

No matter.

It's about the end-game. The one that has no time-limit.

See ya there.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You aren't paying attention. We will get our raises by moving up through attrition. 200-250 a year move up starting in about 2 years.

Yeah...sure! The pilots who have nothing to gain by the impass will keep sacrificing $40k + a year just for you. RIIIGHHHT.

 

[FL430]

Yeah...sure! The pilots who have nothing to gain by the impass will keep sacrificing $40k + a year just for you. RIIIGHHHT.

I am one of those sacrificing that $40K per year and will tell you that he is right. Sorry.

No matter where any of these court judgements or decisions may take us just remember - it still comes down to a vote. Guess which way the vote will go? You westies will not like it.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Thats done, pal.

The age of "freebies" is over.

Too bad Nicolau gave you a key that opens no lock.

No more talk. No more discussion

No, nothing is happening tomorrow, in any case. Nevertheless, you continue to dig, dig, dig, and dig, all the while showing your true colors, not to mention impotence. After a couple years of this, your bluster has consistently turned out to be nothing but hot air. You are becoming caricatures of yourselves.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I am one of those sacrificing that $40K per year and will tell you that he is right. Sorry.

No matter where any of these court judgements or decisions may take us just remember - it still comes down to a vote. Guess which way the vote will go? You westies will not like it.

Sure. Then you can head into retirement in a few years a quarter of a million dollars poorer. And for no reason! Suit yourself!

But for real, you're not fooling anyone. It's obvious you're a card carrying member of the Angry Core Club; desperate to hold on to the elusive dream of avoiding Nicolau. Ain't going to happen, my friend.

 

[traderjake]

I am one of those sacrificing that $40K per year and will tell you that he is right.

90% of the Captains I fly with in CLT say you're both wrong.

We'll see how the vote goes.

 

[cubfan]

90% of the Captains I fly with in CLT say you're both wrong.

We'll see how the vote goes.

Trader,
What vote? If your talking about a new contract, not for a while. I see no real movement from the company for a long time. Any new contract would be for at least 5 yrs., from what they have brought to the table so far we would all be foolish to bite. Parity plus 3%, sorry, they would need to move closer to the snapback rates. 100 plus hrs a month, no way, rsv calling for rls after trip on last day, no way, max sick bank 500 hrs, your kidding, putting the NIC aside for a moment, the company needs to come alittle stronger for any new contract to have a chance, even when the Nic is it.

 

[Megasnoop]

I just heard the FAA is finally getting off their ass and is going to change flight duty limits to 12 hrs for domestic. I also heard this might happen within the next 6 months.. Comments??

That could wipe out all the furloughs.

Well we know that some of the ex-PSA folks would likely bid PHX.

All 20 of them who still live in CA. Most are already on the wide-bodies. A pay cut for a shorter commute? I doubt many takers. Lacking a wide-body bid in PHX, you really think they’d mass migrate to PHX on commute or move?
Did you review your notes on whether Wake questioned attorney fees? 12 hour duty limits that makes our operation safer and should bring back most furloughed pilots. Certain West supporters hijacked this into another seniority NIC/DOH debate, with all the required knife stabs. I don’t get it.
Other things I don’t get is this constant labeling of one group against another. We’re all advocates for our own side. Otherwise what’s the point of posting anything? I’ve been accused of being a full time east shill. Read of my posts over the past 4+ years, I never said DOH was going to be the final decision and the NIC was going to defeat. I said the old MEC merger committee was off their rocker going for DOH. I did say the courts, the Ninth will decide. Review my posts. Their all there to read. I don’t like reading false info. Sorry if calling bull what they are offends the authors. If I get caught putting out something that is wrong or out of context, I’ll listen, maybe defend my position, but I don’t lay on a personal attack. No point.
More rant, I’ve said you got to pay dues/fee or get fired. How many posts ridiculed that? As Susie found out, that’s the way it is, despite all the Bull to the opposite. I thought the vandalism that led to the RICO was illegal, but I said on many posts that the RICO should be dropped as overkill. This should be over. Not exactly something a USAPA shill would say. I attacked JS denials on both sides and never took a stand who was more at fault.
I supported COBRA on this chat board for the west pilots who refused to join. I could see the position they were in. Join and get slammed in the crew room or just ride it out. I sent my BPR a letter on that. I haven’t followed if that got resolved or not. The RICO was thrown out of Fed court for the same reason the DFR was thrown out of AZ state court: jurisdiction. West types drool over the first but ignore the 2nd. Jurisdiction has nothing to do with merits. I never said we’d win the DFR court suit. The way the judge set up what he’d allow in, as far back as February it was obvious there was no way we could. I posted that before the trial started. Point is, the Ninth will decide if he committed reversible error or wasn’t ripe, not this board.
Clear says the Ninth took it on short notice because of the concept of binding arbitration was at stake. Maybe so, but on the flip side, the Ninth maybe expedited it because the concept of a union being allowed to bargain without pre-set conditions is also at stake. We’ll know next winter. Or the Ninth could uphold the plaintiff, then it should be over. Or reverse on ripeness with no other reason. However this turns out, I hope both sides will just move on and let the Ninth decision end this and not retry on adnauseum on this board. Totally lost in this E/W battle is what a labor thread should really be about: labor Vs management. Get back to that and maybe we’ll all have some good discussion.

 

[kubotapilot]

Exactly---Let's pretend for a second that the NIC is NOT an issue and we are ALL(East & West) bargaining for our joint contract. The company is totally NOT MOTIVATED to close a deal. If you were management would you be motivated at all to increase labor costs ??? Really think about what you are saying here.

My guess would be at least several more years of "negotiations" before a deal is struck. I would bet a lot more on a breakup happening before that time.

For the westies on here constantly chanting that the senior east will vote to move forward, please consider the above FACTS before you waste bandwidth here.

Trader,
What vote? If your talking about a new contract, not for a while. I see no real movement from the company for a long time. Any new contract would be for at least 5 yrs., from what they have brought to the table so far we would all be foolish to bite. Parity plus 3%, sorry, they would need to move closer to the snapback rates. 100 plus hrs a month, no way, rsv calling for rls after trip on last day, no way, max sick bank 500 hrs, your kidding, putting the NIC aside for a moment, the company needs to come alittle stronger for any new contract to have a chance, even when the Nic is it.

 

[cleardirect]

Thats done, pal.

The age of "freebies" is over.

Too bad Nicolau gave you a key that opens no lock.

No more talk. No more discussion

Promise? Have we heard the last from you?