US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules

[Nicstolemyjob]

Why can't the same black-and-white thinking be applied to the issue of abiding to binding arbitration?

Why abandon chasing a dollar so you can chase after the elusive goal of getting back everything you lost in the past 5 years at the west pilot's expense?

Didn't catch this on the first read...

If you identify with Piney thats also your problem...not mine.

(thanks again for letting me work at your airline, sir.)

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Has anyone ever wished they could "pull it back in..."? I'm just guessing here, but I'd guess this is one of those times.

If not, hp-fa..please continue with this line of thinking...you have our attention.

(crickets chirping)

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

PHL CLT DCA LGA is fireing

Don't tell that to the PIT people, btw we still have a BOS base.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

[b]

Actually no, it doesn't mean much to me. I've been doing my job long enough to not get too impressed with that. If they aren't checkin', they're just another jumpseat rider. [/b]

And that is part of the problem.

See, the way we work out east has a certain level of respect. If a "senior daddy" or CKA or whatever shows up...he/she is paid a certain level of respect. If you don't understand that...it explains a few things.

RESPECT

(look it up)

 

[ussnark]

The technical point I was trying to make was that the compnay that the 23+ year pilot worked for went bankrupt. Legally, that company ceased to exist. The stock became literally worthless. That was my point.

So, everyone at HP had their seniority reset on the late 80's, when they went bankrupt?

I'll play along a little with you but "Bankruptcy" does not mean the same thing it meant as little as fifteen years ago after HP went. Then, it was a major issue. Nowadays it is simply an "accepted" measure to beat down those pesky labor people.

There is a separate issue, the phrase "bankruptcy" can mean everything from a formalized means of changing something in the corporation (that the creditors likely will not like) to liquidating a corporation. It seems to have become adopted by management as a tool for managing, something the former CBA could never understand.

I can show you how US went "bankrupt" in order to manage a change in accounting in order to more easily "buy" HP without running into anti-trust issues or tax issues. I am sure you can do that yourself. Devolving yourself by passing off the situation like you did would indicate to me that you are simply being lazy.

 

[cleardirect]

Oh..he can do just that....

and then you can read day 8 again and see where that gets you.

You need to read your own defense lawyers response to the remedy. See where that gets you.

Even Seham is hoping to have the judge only impose the Nicolau for one vote. So you see it can happen.

Reality check!!!! Every contract proposal will include the Nicolau as the seniority list.

Vote it down but the next one will be the same. Get used to it.

 

[ussnark]

Your memory is short. The West supported pay parity up until the East withdrew from joint negotiations in 2007. Your side declared war on us so why would we support anything for you now?

Was that not when the "west" walked out when ALPA suggested they consider, LOS?

 

[Megasnoop]

Judge Wake's remedy. I think the law will allow it and the pilot's won't have a further voice in it except for the possibility of indefinite separate operations because every contract would need to be voted down. I think (speculation) Judge Wake will impose Nicolau into every contract proposal until one is ratified.

I think the on-the-record side bars with Wake thinking out loud said it all. If the appeal fails, he can impose NIC in every TA, thats about it. He cant take away the right to vote. Especially with pay reinstatement, until the rest of the industry catches up with our East reinstated pay rates, the West wont see a single contract until 2015 at the earliest, when they have the majority.

kindly show me ONE pilot who will at age 60 or 65 come out with MORE money fighting each other instead of fighting the company. I'll wait patiently for the answer to this.

With pay reinstatement, those 60-65 get 2 good deals, 35% pay increase AND an extra $1M in pay and benefits. They’ll be plenty patient.

Does the RLA or the CBA allow for the filing of an anticipatory breach of contract? In courts you cannot, but I don't know if the RLA or CBA allow it here.

Probably not, hp. Well, Im sure we can file, but obviously the company would turn us down on “ripeness.â€￾ Maybe the GC is trying to get a jump on this so we can cut to the chase on January 15, with the process already moved forward to get to arbitration quicker. Back-up, we file another grievance on January 16.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

You need to read your own defense lawyers response to the remedy. See where that gets you.

Even Seham is hoping to have the judge only impose the Nicolau for one vote. So you see it can happen.

Reality check!!!! Every contract proposal will include the Nicolau as the seniority list.

Vote it down but the next one will be the same. Get used to it.

Get used to seperate operations until the company pulls the force majuere card.

hmmm.

(never mind...I have it on good authority that we are all on 3rd year status due to the new company we built.....you'll be fine..I'll take the bullet)

 

[Objector]

RESPECT

(look it up)

INTEGRITY

(look it up)

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

zowsa.....I have met my match.

we give up.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

PM me and I'll give you the check-airmans name and phone number.....you can discuss it with him directly.

the minutes tick by....

Naturally, slick explanations are easy. A call-out that requires real follow-up...notsomuch.

It's OK...maybe it was you and you can ask him in your next CQT.

or not.

 

[Megasnoop]

Where do these guys dream up this stuff? I just finished wading through AWAPPAs latest tome. Them and my comments.

Over the past year, AWAPPA has documented several issues that are serious enough to warrant complaints in federal court, including:
Then why are you complaining here and not in court?

- Improper application of the USAPA Constitution in the context of pilot ratification
Then why are you complaining here and not in court? I must have missed that vote. But then all 106 Westies in good standing, now theres a voting block.

- Numerous instances of deliberate violations of union member's rights
Accusations are like assumptions, everyones got one. what exactly is alleged, specifics? Thought not.
- Several cases where individual pilot grievances have been intentionally ignored or delayed
Again, a lack of specifics. Last I checked USAPA even let McIlvenna present his own case to the arbitrator, without USAPA SBA members even attending. Oops, he no-showed that one.

- Illegal and improper billing and collection practices
And your mother wears Army boots. Accusations are like opinions, everyones got one.

In addition to those issues, there are other issues that may give rise to the need for additional litigation, including:

1) Disregard of a successful outcome of the "Susie Arbitration"
Has it been decided yet? Are we done yet? Oh wait, AWAPPA has the inside track on how Witt is going to rule.

2) If successful in the block hours arbitration, USAPA may negotiate a remedy to that arbitration with the company that does not rightfully restore West pilot jobs
Where does this come from? More fright mongering? It hasn’t been decided yet and there already threats from the West. “MAYâ€￾ negotiate? Got a private line into the CLT offices?

3) USAPA has indicated that it may take a position that the "3rd list" new-hire pilots should be recalled to the East in advance of more senior pre-merger pilots.
This has already been decided. There is no “third listâ€￾ for recall or furlough. We lost that one. Bummer. If there are still two lists when recalls start, then the recalls go according to the seniority lists in effect at the time of the recall. If a new hire pilot was furloughed from the West list he goes back to the West list, if from the East list he goes back to the East list. The Transition Agreement may have language in the event a pilot goes across the lists.

4) USAPA's ongoing disregard for the America West Section VI negotiating right
Sounds like what Nic4us et al are spouting. THE BIG LIE. The company will only negotiate for a single agreement, they have declined to negotiate two separate agreements. That could however change, the TA is subject to amendment, isn’t it?

5) Attempts to make good on any of the promises made by Mr. Javurek in his web-board post
Looking at the Officer, BPR member roster and the committee list, I cant find his name anywhere. Any line pilot can propose anything, it doesn’t mean it will happen. AWAPPA, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

My gut can't take the strain of the belly-laughing ....

In the words of the soon-to-be-infamous Leonidas..."sue'm all..I say..."

I love it.

 

[hp_fa]

I think the on-the-record side bars with Wake thinking out loud said it all. If the appeal fails, he can impose NIC in every TA, thats about it. He cant take away the right to vote. Especially with pay reinstatement, until the rest of the industry catches up with our East reinstated pay rates, the West wont see a single contract until 2015 at the earliest, when they have the majority.

Snoop, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that their right to vote will be impeded. However, if he imposes Nicolau in an injunction that takes effect immediately unless it is stayed by him or the Ninth Circuit pending appeal. Frankly I doubt any stay will be granted pending appeal. It sort of defeats the purpose of an injunction.