US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules

[Nicstolemyjob]

Why do you compare where you stand on the seniority list with the pilot right next to you on the NIC?

I'd like everyone to read that a few times....

The East rests.

 

[RIASU_upe]

Because, by all rights, I should be able to compare myself on the Nic with the guys "right next to me" and under the Nic, I can't.

If you dont get why, I can't help you.


Edit: sorry hp..I see the questions got too tough.

Maybe tomorrow you will be able to explain yourself and all the rest to me with clarity.

Obviously you would like to pretend all AWA pilots were employed by US Air the whole time you were and thus should be a measure of where you fall on a combined list. Your deductive reasoning defies comprehension. You want me to believe the bottom guy at US Air was/is more senior than the bottom guy at AWA, and that my friend is absurd. Both have equal seniority on each respective list. What you and most of your friends want us to believe for your own self-interests is longevity with one particular Company equates to seniority, and to go even a step further, it also applies equally across other airlines. News flash, there is no National pilot seniority list.

Now, I better heed my own advice and fade into the night.

upe

 

[luvn737s]

The "tenure" at a carrier is what commands respect...not the title.

The content of a person's character is what commands respect.

Tenure gets you an extra day of vacation (maybe).

This explains alot... <_<

 

[RIASU_upe]

The East rests.

Yes, at the bottom of a barrel until competent USAPA leaders emerge from the abyss.

I really need to fade fast.

upe

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

The technical point I was trying to make was that the compnay that the 23+ year pilot worked for went bankrupt. Legally, that company ceased to exist. The stock became literally worthless. That was my point.

hp-fa

Something to sleep on for you while you consider everything you didn't respond to today....

(speculations notwithstanding)

Since you suggest the demise of USAir so freely, maybe you'd like to explain the testimony of a lawyer who shared that the Judge handling USAir "wouldn't let it die" under any circumstance....

There is something to be said for "litigeous clout" don't you think?

Nevermind.

I'm more interested in the formula that you happily endorse placing a guy like me (1987 next to a probationary pilot)

I know Nic did.....I'd like to hear your reasoned explanation that is woven in all your posts these days.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Yes, at the bottom of a barrel until competent USAPA leaders emerge from the abyss.

I really need to fade fast.

upe

Bye then

 

[hp_fa]

No...I'm interested in YOUR specific point about my seniority with a 1987 hire date.

YOU

I know what Nicolau thinks.

I want you to elaborate on my 3 years at this airline.

You wax eloquent about what you "speculate" will or should happen all day long...week after week.

I ask you to elaborate on a point YOU made.....

And you punt and send me to the Nic.

So "west" of you.

What I think, if you really care, is that there are multiple factors that go into deciding your question.

I think that the AAA MEC should have tried harder for a negotiated settlement and therefore would have had more control over the final product than letting George Nicolau decide the issue.

I remember that at the time of the announcement that there had been no mention of AWA's financial issues that later were mentioned by Doug Parker.

I think that Parker may have been being diplomatic when he made that statement.

I think that it is and was unreasonable for a furloughed pilot to be placed ahead of a working pilot.

I think it is unreasonable to expect that the West folks should have been expected by anyone to negotiate off of Nicolau.

I thought at the time that a straight proportional integration should have occurred and I believe I posted to that effect back in 2005. 2 East guys to 1 West guy in their respective orders of seniority.

I think that the relative financial positions of the airlines at the time the merger was announced is a valid factor.

I think USAPA was indeed designed with the primary purpose to render Nicolau moot.

Are you tired of what I think yet?

By the way, my thinking these things does not preclude me from trying to see a rationale resolution to this problem. However, as I have posted a few times recently, I think it is nearly impossible to have East/West discussions when no one really represents West despite PHX and LAS having one rep each on the BPR. Those reps would be conflicted six ways from Sunday representing West to the BPR and the BPR probably would not want to have meaningful caucuses with the two West reps sitting in on their caucus.

I'm done thinking for the moment but if I get any brainstorms I'll make sure to share them with you.

p.s. - I was watching a few hours on TV if that was OK......

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Obviously you would like to pretend all AWA pilots were employed by US Air the whole time you were and thus should be a measure of where you fall on a combined list. Your deductive reasoning defies comprehension. You want me to believe the bottom guy at US Air was/is more senior than the bottom guy at AWA, and that my friend is absurd. Both have equal seniority on each respective list. What you and most of your friends want us to believe for your own self-interests is longevity with one particular Company equates to seniority, and to go even a step further, it also applies equally across other airlines. News flash, there is no National pilot seniority list.

Now, I better heed my own advice and fade into the night.

upe

I'm much more interested in how your new-hire class was determined at AWA.

Most airlines run each class by age....oldest=most senior.

Was that fair?

Why or why not?

Isn't that rather "arbitrary"?

Why are you senior to your FO at AWA? (assuming you are a Captain at AWA)

Why are some FO's at AWA blockholders and some on reserve?


DOH?


( It hurts...I know)

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

What I think, if you really care, is that there are multiple factors that go into deciding your question.

I think that the AAA MEC should have tried harder for a negotiated settlement and therefore would have had more control over the final product than letting George Nicolau decide the issue.


YES


I remember that at the time of the announcement that there had been no mention of AWA's financial issues that later were mentioned by Doug Parker.

And that changes things..how? It does not excuse this "financial horsepower" trip AWA has been on...and Nic bought it.I think that Parker may have been being diplomatic when he made that statement.

I think that it is and was unreasonable for a furloughed pilot to be placed ahead of a working pilot.

As a former AFA flight attendant...you were part of an organization that disagrees with you..they are DOH.

I think it is unreasonable to expect that the West folks should have been expected by anyone to negotiate off of Nicolau.

Fairness aside....why?

I thought at the time that a straight proportional integration should have occurred and I believe I posted to that effect back in 2005. 2 East guys to 1 West guy in their respective orders of seniority.

we'll get back to that later

I think that the relative financial positions of the airlines at the time the merger was announced is a valid factor.

See my recent post regarding what judge thought what about who....


I think USAPA was indeed designed with the primary purpose to render Nicolau moot.

OK..Your opinion. (thousands disagree)

Are you tired of what I think yet?

Yes, but please continue.

By the way, my thinking these things does not preclude me from trying to see a rationale resolution to this problem. However, as I have posted a few times recently, I think it is nearly impossible to have East/West discussions when no one really represents West despite PHX and LAS having one rep each on the BPR. Those reps would be conflicted six ways from Sunday representing West to the BPR and the BPR probably would not want to have meaningful caucuses with the two West reps sitting in on their caucus.

I'm done thinking for the moment but if I get any brainstorms I'll make sure to share them with you.

p.s. - I was watching a few hours on TV if that was OK......

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

No...I'm interested in YOUR specific point about my seniority with a 1987 hire date.

YOU

I know what Nicolau thinks.

I want you to elaborate on my 3 years at this airline.

You wax eloquent about what you "speculate" will or should happen all day long...week after week.

I ask you to elaborate on a point YOU made.....

Waiting for hp-fa to answer:


So, by your esteemed estimation, am I a new hire?....a 3 year pilot?...what?

Priority for travel according to Parker....1987. ( that dirty 3 letter word...DOH)

I'm all ears.

Do you know the name of the Judge who "wouldn't let USAir die"...or should I PM you?

 

[hp_fa]

So, by your esteemed estimation, am I a new hire?....a 3 year pilot?...what?

You are somewhere between a three year pilot and a 22 year pilot for seniority purposes.

Where would you have been on my proportional list? Since I don't have seniority lists to go by you need to answer that one.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Was that not when the "west" walked out when ALPA suggested they consider, LOS?

No, that was later.

 

[hp_fa]

Do you know the name of the Judge who "wouldn't let USAir die"...or should I PM you?

I am guessing Stephen S. Mitchell.

------------------

I think it is unreasonable to expect that the West folks should have been expected by anyone to negotiate off of Nicolau.

Fairness aside....why?

Because they took the same chance at binding arbitration as the AAA folks did and could have "lost". Why should they negotiate away a result, especially when nothing of value is being offered? If the AAA MEC did not negotiate, mediate or arbitrate any position other than DOH/LOS, why should West be expected to give them any of what they did not gain in the agreed upon process?

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

You are somewhere between a three year pilot and a 22 year pilot for seniority purposes.

Where would you have been on my proportional list? Since I don't have seniority lists to go by you need to answer that one.

Painting with a rather "broad brush" don't you think?

3 vs 22...

As an airline employee (former) I'd guess you know exactly what that kind of disparity can mean.

Considering that there is legal testimony on record about USAir's survival "at all costs"...(in stark contrast to your very polished remarks here..)

I'll answer your question to me without hesitation....on the Master seniority list at 5/87 ...and further in accordance with my DOB in that class.




JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AIRLINE THAT IS 3 YEARS or 30 YEARS OLD

 

[hp_fa]

I'll answer your question to me without hesitation....on the Master seniority list at 5/87 ...and further in accordance with my DOB in that class.

That answer has no meaning to me because I lack the information to make sense out of it, but then again it wasn't an answer that I need because you were asking the real question.

With that I am headed for bed. Just so you don't worry about me tomorrow my time will be limited. I will be rewiring the entire entertainment center and installing both an AV receiver and a Blu-Ray, then calibrating all of it. So don't miss me too much if I am missing for multiple hours.