US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules

[cleardirect]

QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Jun 22 2009, 09:52 AM)
This will be settled in court...



Generalizations are like assumptions, everyones got one.

Civil RICO still alive and well in NC State Court.

That is one way to spin it. But the reality is that the RICO charges were and still are DISMISSED WITH PREDJUDICE. Tossed out by a FEDERAL judge. That is what is on the record right now. It is in the court of appeals but it has been sitting for 7 months. Until they dismiss the charges that is still a loss for usapa and Seham.

Breeger (Empire) tossed out by a FEDERAL Judge in NC Federal Court.

Dismissed on ripeness not on the merits. Those charges can be filed again at a later time. I would call that a draw right now.

Counts 1&2 (the only real damages) remanded to arbitration by Wake, BOTH lost, one because your grandstanding heroes no-showed.

Both lost?

From the usapa update June 10.
Arbitrator Bloch has issued a Letter Order regarding the Addington Count I & II postponement. Recall that we successfully persuaded Arbitrator Bloch to bill the Addington group and the Company for cancellation fees, with no charge to the Association. The deadline for the Addington group to advise whether they wish to schedule additional hearing dates is close of business on Friday, June 19, 2009.

That update says that a deadline of June 19. Have you seen a letter yet? I have not. Did they reschedule? If they did how can you say that both counts were lost?
Grandstanding heroes? Not sure what you mean by that. The plaintiffs that put their lives on hold to fight against the tyranny of the majority? Those heroes? The heroes that beat usapa?

Addington, ouch, lost that one, but on appeal. Or maybe the "remedy" wont be worth time or money appealing.

At least you admit the loss on that one. A little news flash. The money is being spent now for appeal. Not sure what you are hinting at about not being worth appealing. If you are saying that the remedy will be so airtight that it would be a waste to appeal I agree.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Davis is hardly to person to blame for any "re-interpretation", don't you think? I would think he would not been that effective during those years.

You would think wrong then, although as I said he had the company (resource planning) covering his back.

Jim

 

[Megasnoop]

That is one way to spin it. But the reality is that the RICO charges were and still are DISMISSED WITH PREDJUDICE. Tossed out by a FEDERAL judge. That is what is on the record right now. It is in the court of appeals but it has been sitting for 7 months. Until they dismiss the charges that is still a loss for usapa and Seham.

Your a tough act, today, clear. I dont see much on the FEDERAL RICO appeal. It may sit there a long time or get rejected. Its not a big deal. The STATE RICO is still alive and well. As long as there both out there, your guys are going to be held in check doing nasties. But since you want to go "technical" (Breeger not being "ripe"), I'll go technical too. The Federal RICO was dismissed on technicalities as well, "Lack of jurisdiction and improper venue."

Dismissed on ripeness not on the merits. Those charges can be filed again at a later time. I would call that a draw right now.

BINGO! Breeger dismissed on RIPENESS! The merits were it wasnt RIPE! Breeger cant be refiled until theres a contract. Just like Addington should have been, maybe still on appeal, if we even bother to appeal. That depends on Wakes remedy. If its to negotiate with the NIC, well, who knows, maybe its not worth appealing. One thing we cant do is force the company to negotiate quickly or in good faith. if its the NIC in a TA seniority section, with LOA84 and the $70M, its gonna be separate ops for a long time.

Both lost?

Yes, BOTH lost!

That update says that a deadline of June 19. Have you seen a letter yet? I have not. Did they reschedule? If they did how can you say that both counts were lost?
Grandstanding heroes? Not sure what you mean by that. The plaintiffs that put their lives on hold to fight against the tyranny of the majority? Those heroes? The heroes that beat usapa?

Youd be the last to get a letter on that. #1 (third list) lost in arbitration. We tried to get a win on that for you but came up short. Sorry. Im talking about the Arbitration #2 "grandstanding heroes." And yes, they blew the extension offered by Bloch. So no counts 1&2, no damages. "The heroes that beat USAPA?" I didnt know the case was over yet.

At least you admit the loss on that one. A little news flash. The money is being spent now for appeal. Not sure what you are hinting at about not being worth appealing. If you are saying that the remedy will be so airtight that it would be a waste to appeal I agree.

We lost the first round Addington. Its still a work in progress. No, the remedy might be so ho-hum (like you must negotiate with the Nic) that we might be wasting our time with a full appeal. According to Clarence "hp_fa" Darrow, we're 12-18 months away from a final appeal decision. Meanwhile, weve got $70M coming in and the LOA84 rates to work through. thanks for your continued and future support in paying germane legal expenses.

 

[hp_fa]

I thought I had said something like 11-13 months once filed. Perhaps not. I am expecting about a year, give or take, but could be wrong.

/s/

Clarence

 

[700UW]

Like I said earlier and no one replied to it, don't count on LOA84, we had guaranteed snapback's in 1993 and lost in arbitration, the company is going to force the issue and not pay you those rates of pay.

Don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Like I said earlier and no one replied to it, don't count on LOA84, we had guaranteed snapback's in 1993 and lost in arbitration, the company is going to force the issue and not pay you those rates of pay.

Don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch.

We're not "counting our chickens," daddy, but thank you for looking out for us.

No one is out buying sailboats, vacation cottages, airplanes, etc. based on our winning the LOA 93 expiration arbitration. We've been at these similar games for years now. You've been injecting your two cents into the discussion (which is really none of your business, anyway) for the same amount of time.

Is there something you see to indicate we don't have forbearance and tenacity? Both sides?

 

[Hawkhunter]

Nah, you need a break (seriously). I spend plenty of time at the training center and every checkairman and instructor I've talked to says they work exclusively on their own side. But since I spend alot less time there than you do on this board, I'll concede that a checkairman from the east could possibly have conducted some degree of training in PHX. Feel better?


Well, you must not be there that much. I trained out in PHX over two years ago on the 757. There were 3 Captains and three F/Os. There also were the same number of Airbus training going on. This has been going on for years. It is a lot more than "a check airman". However, I must be wrong because you guys out West know all.

 

[ussnark]

You would think wrong then, although as I said he had the company (resource planning) covering his back.

Shucks, you think you found a scapegoat.

Perhaps you should look to your reps who supposedly were to enforce the original understanding and failed miserably.

 

[700UW]

Last time I checked anyone can freely post here, its not exclusive to pilots.

I just explained what happened to the IAM M&R Snapbacks in 93 when it was forced to arbitration.

Sorry if you dont like history and what transpired, see we in the IAM didnt have temper tantrums unlike some of the pilots here.

 

[ROACLT]

Sorry if you dont like history and what transpired, see we in the IAM didnt have temper tantrums unlike some of the pilots here.

Like the brawl in Philidelphia that landed people in the Emergency Room?

 

[700UW]

That was fleet not M&R and it had nothing to do with an arbitration case now did it?

 

[A320 Driver]

Like the brawl in Philidelphia that landed people in the Emergency Room?

No reason to bring that up. Anyone can have an opinion here.


Driver B)

 

[EastUS]

Nah, you need a break (seriously). I spend plenty of time at the training center and every checkairman and instructor I've talked to says they work exclusively on their own side. But since I spend alot less time there than you do on this board, I'll concede that a checkairman from the east could possibly have conducted some degree of training in PHX. Feel better?


Hawkhunter: Well, you must not be there that much. I trained out in PHX over two years ago on the 757. There were 3 Captains and three F/Os. There also were the same number of Airbus training going on. This has been going on for years. It is a lot more than "a check airman". However, I must be wrong because you guys out West know all.

You're not wrong. Upon inquiry; It's my understanding that the majority of a recent 76-75 initial class were sent to PHX for sims, and that wasn't anything "new" to have happen at all. It appears that some in PHX/Westworld just don't even know what's going on in their own town.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Jun 22 2009, 09:52 AM)
This will be settled in court...



Generalizations are like assumptions, everyones got one.

Civil RICO still alive and well in NC State Court.

Breeger (Empire) tossed out by a FEDERAL Judge in NC Federal Court.

Counts 1&2 (the only real damages) remanded to arbitration by Wake, BOTH lost, one because your grandstanding heroes no-showed.

Addington, ouch, lost that one, but on appeal. Or maybe the "remedy" wont be worth time or money appealing.

Now your back in Wake's Court with your latest Hail Mary to drag ALPA into this. I'll get back to you after that one plays out.

All in all, Id say we're holding our own.

Man I didn't realize all that. Wow, you are doing better than holding your own, you guys are kicking ass and taking names. A historic new union indeed. Congratulations.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You're not wrong. Upon inquiry; It's my understanding that the majority of a recent 76-75 initial class were sent to PHX for sims, and that wasn't anything "new" to have happen at all. It appears that some in PHX/Westworld just don't even know what's going on in their own town.

It's understandable. Since the Nicolau abomination was announced, they were too busy high-fiving one another to notice.

Lately, they've been camped out in the federal courthouse slapping each other on the back. Who has time to be aware of what's going on where you work when you are distracted by such gravity.