US Pilots Labor Thread 5/13-19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[ClueByFour]

That pretty much sums it up, undies. Anything more is judicial activism that wont fly in SFO.

Steve

You do know that the 9th Circus is known for it's judicial activism, right?

This is new case law. As long as Wake is reasonable in the remedy, he won't be overturned.

You (USAPA, really), of course, have a different view of "reasonable" than the rest of the free world.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Hmmmm, who should I look to for a better idea of where things are and where they are going, underpants or clue by four?
Man it's a tough call, but I gotta go with clue by four.

 

[FWAAA]

Reading the rest of your post, jim, sounds like you got a dog in the fight. Anger noted, as well. You sound like a sore winner.

Jim is a flight attendant at AA - so he's being honest about his lack of a dog in the hunt.

 

[john john]

Some of our group 2 aircraft were returned to leasors and replaced with 190s. .
My point is this...life is not rosey over on the east coast. Our flying is shrinking just like it is out west.

And who allowed and negotiated this. The express operation seems to be growing

 

[nostradamus]

The West leadership believes there will be an appellate phase. A quote from them below.

""Fellow West Pilots,

As members of the plaintiff class, we have lived and experienced firsthand what was just litigated in Judge Wake's court room. It is a natural tendency for all of us to want to talk about it, especially to an outsider who is now interested in hearing what this case is all about; but therein lies the problem as this case is still ongoing. Early on in this litigation our attorneys were adamant that all media requests be referred to the firm and the reason should be self-evident. Since this case lives on in the remedy phase (and probably into the appellate phase unless the Cleary regime isn't toppled sooner)""

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

From an outsider looking in:

http://industry.bnet.com/travel/10001910/f...airways-pilots/

"incredibly whiney"

Hopefully now, most folks will push their emotions aside and face the reality that the future will bring: a better contract for ALL USAPA pilots.

 

[jimntx]

Jim is a flight attendant at AA - so he's being honest about his lack of a dog in the hunt.

If anything, I should be (as they used to say in the Deep South) "aggin" you all on to go at each other tooth and nail. All the conventional wisdom (you may, as I do, differ on the wise part of CW) says that one of the major problems of the industry is overcapacity. Now if that is true, then it should be to my advantage for US Airways employees to fight each other to the death so to speak.

But, it is not. As I said, I have good friends who work for US Airways. How do I benefit as a person if these people lose their jobs? One of them is within 3 years of retiring.

Now, if that trust fund has matured and you can afford to destroy US Airways on a matter of "principle," so be it. But, I doubt you will find in the aftermath that most other people will care very much about your vaunted honor and integrity.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

From an outsider looking in:

http://industry.bnet.com/travel/10001910/f...airways-pilots/

"incredibly whiney"

Hopefully now, most folks will push their emotions aside and face the reality that the future will bring: a better contract for ALL USAPA pilots.

The author of your article:

"Brett has worked in various pricing, sales, and marketing functions for airlines including America West and United. "

some outsider, what a clown



you guys know there will never be a joint contract with nic, and we know you will never give up nic. why do you keep ignoring this undisputble fact. you say move on.. that will only happen when that fact is acknowledged and a different course is charted...any suggestions, i mean realistic suggestions?


here is a true outsiders view of what we sound like in here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCx5DR5oemw

 

[oscarjazz]

What you are proposing is a redo of arbitration. Not going to happen. It is time to understand that arbitration is over. The DFR law suit is over. There is no more talking about it. It is completed. The judge is going to issue his order in the next few days. That order is going to include an injunction to the union that they must include the Nicolau award as is. Any violation to that order brings bad things. The west is also included in that order. It the west were to negotiate away from that then we would also be in violation.

No, the Nicolau will be included in any contract going forward. Vote yes or no. Your choice but every contract that appears will have the same section 22. The rest is up for grabs. With one exception. The other section have to use the Nicolau. Such as vacations, that is controlled by the seniority list. Using something else would be a violation of the injunction.

The company knows this too. They will be bound by the injunction also.

Absolutely not. What I am suggesting is a way to have both sides get independent representation in regards to seniority. Since there is one union, there needs to be a way for the minority to have their interests represented without being pushed around by the majority. Even if the Nicolau award becomes the list tomorrow, there could be disputes. How will those disputes get handled? Who represents the West pilots, who represents the East pilots?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

The author of your article:

"Brett has worked in various pricing, sales, and marketing functions for airlines including America West and United. "

some outsider, what a clown



you guys know there will never be a joint contract with nic, and we know you will never give up nic. why do you keep ignoring this undisputble fact. you say move on.. that will only happen when that fact is acknowledged and a different course is charted...any suggestions, i mean realistic suggestions?

Go ahead, continue to ignore reality. Whatever course is taken, it MUST include the seniority award that was arbitrated. That's what the DFR was all about. Ignoring that fact is what lost the law suit for Seaham, & etc.

It looks as though USAPA needs to start an education campaign, beginning with Mr. Cleary.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Go ahead, continue to ignore reality. Whatever course is taken, it MUST include the seniority award that was arbitrated. That's what the DFR was all about. Ignoring that fact is what lost the law suit for Seaham, & etc.

It looks as though USAPA needs to start an education campaign, beginning with Mr. Cleary.

you guys know there will never be a joint contract with nic, and we know you will never give up nic. why do you keep ignoring this undisputble fact. you say move on.. that will only happen when that fact is acknowledged and a different course is charted...any suggestions, i mean realistic suggestions?

 

[usfurloughed]

The author of your article:

"Brett has worked in various pricing, sales, and marketing functions for airlines including America West and United. "

some outsider, what a clown



you guys know there will never be a joint contract with nic, and we know you will never give up nic. why do you keep ignoring this undisputble fact. you say move on.. that will only happen when that fact is acknowledged and a different course is charted...any suggestions, i mean realistic suggestions?

Not a suggestion but rumor that could become fact..........

Split the Company ( which is really already split ) in 2.
East goes to UA.............
West goes to CO...........
Management goes home with $$$$$ and Parkers stock purchase of 2008 quadruples......

End of story?

 

[V1cut]

People...

there is no dispute about "who" represents "each side" going forward. Judge Wake telegraphed that in no uncertain words in his discussions of potential remedies. Re-read them if you need to.

There is ONE bargaining agent for the ENTIRE group. IF the remedy is the Nic, he already warned Mr. Stevens that the voting members of the union could CHOOSE to not vote for ANY joint CBA that may contain it...and it was perfectly legal with no contempt. He then went on to discuss the TA and how it allowed for contunued seperate ops indefinitely...OR until such a time that the offer was so good that the pilot group ratifies it WITH the Nic.

He subsequently asked Mr. Harper if he would consider ANY other remedy based on that fact.

Mr. Harper indicated NO, but we're looking into it.

You guys are heading into the weeds with some of this. Time to re-read the actual JUDGE's comments.

 

[cleardirect]

Absolutely not. What I am suggesting is a way to have both sides get independent representation in regards to seniority. Since there is one union, there needs to be a way for the minority to have their interests represented without being pushed around by the majority. Even if the Nicolau award becomes the list tomorrow, there could be disputes. How will those disputes get handled? Who represents the West pilots, who represents the East pilots?

Currently USAPA has that duty and responsibility. As we have just found out they failed in that duty. From now on they are going to have to do a better job.

Perhaps they should begin to consider the west interests.

 

[a320av8r]

you guys know there will never be a joint contract with nic, and we know you will never give up nic. why do you keep ignoring this undisputble fact. you say move on.. that will only happen when that fact is acknowledged and a different course is charted...any suggestions, i mean realistic suggestions?

There is no accepting the nic, it is done. The pilot roster (not seniority list anymore) will be imposed soon. The only negotiations and ratification will be for the normal work rules, pay, etc., not the list.