US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[CactusFlyr]

Why no notes regarding cross examination of Sully? Let's be fair here... I hear he had his rear-end handed to him on a couple of points. Care to confirm or deny that?

Yes, Try explaining how you have integrity yet do not honor your agreements. It is an oxymoron, like the rest of these yahoos and their "union".

 

[toganoflex]

...as a psgr I would choose another airline.

Whatever.

If our ticket price was $5 cheaper you'd be right back.

 

[EastUS]

Why Would You? This Group is a total Farse! This so called DFR is a waste of time. It won't meen a thing. The bottom line is Im keepin my seniority and my airline and HP can go jump in a lake. The west could walk off the job today and we would save money. They have no value at all. Worthless!!! Now these Marys are Talkin sheet about Sully. They are done folks. Let em sue Let em rant there nothin but a bunch of Mesa Grande Marys. It's over, Has been for many months.

DouglasRacerr

Be that as it may gentlemen...there's no excuse for not doing the right thing here. I'm in favor of the medical benefit myself, and will vote accordingly. I don't see it as any "west vs east" thing, but more of a "what's right to do" issue. Naturally; each must determine what's right to do based on their own beliefs.

 

[nic4us]

I am wondering how to vote on the west furlough medical. Is it hypocritical for me to vote for USAPA to fund it when no one out west supported parity for the east and the west doesn't pay dues, seems odd to expect the east to shoulder the financial burden to supply medical insurance to the only pilot group in history to actively supress the wages of another pilot group.

What do you guys think, ......, nic4us,..........et al.

vote your gut instinct. Perhaps West non-members will pay the assesment knowing it will help out West furloughs who make up the majority of the furloughed.

Ever heard of a B scale? East supressed its own wages, demanding parity yet walking out of negotiations.

 

[cleardirect]

I guess the details are getting back.

Four days into the trial and the east is getting nasty. HP-FA gives an unbiased report and gets attacked. Can’t wait for the transcripts to arrive. A verdict very soon. The truth will set you free.

Usapa did not have much to say about the near god Sulley.

USAPA immediately launched its Case in Chief with witness Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger, III. Captain Sullenberger testified that he would be the same seniority number on either the Nicolau list or the USAPA proposal. He added that although the absence of Conditions and Restrictions in the Nicolau award would improve his quality of life, he had serious concerns about the fairness of Nicolau list, and could not support it.

I guess this should put an end to this case and all of the west complaining. If Sulley says it is not fair, that should settle it then. To bad that is not the legal system in this country.

 

[EastUS]

Usapa did not have much to say about the near god Sulley.

"near god"? Try being at least respectful of SOME basics in life..IF..you can actually find ANY respect at all, for ANYTHING!!

There is no "near" = Only God is God..and referring to His Name in some childishly spiteful idiiocy...well...You guys just keep on racking up more and more positive points......

Newsflash = You didn't actually create the universe, nor are you the center of it all.

 

[luvn737s]

I am wondering how to vote on the west furlough medical.

Wondering? Really? Did You vote for USAPA? Did you vote to gut the wests Age 58 bypass provision when it wouldn't affect you? Did you vote in an illegitimate election that kept a qualified west pilot from being placed on the ballot?

Well with your voting record, what the heck are you "wondering" about?

Vote No and vote to deepen the divide between the pilots. Vote No and don't come back later and try to curry favor with the west when your pet issue needs their support. Vote No and send a message to the USAPA "leadership" (or whatever it is) that you want more polarization and not less and that you'll gladly forego pay increases if it means you can stay in solidarity with your tribe. Vote NO and watch how the west responds and remember the vote that helped cause it.

 

[Eastisleast]

When the judge silences the defendant's attorney without hearing reasons for the objection, it sounds to me like the type of procedural errors that will allow the case to go to appeal. If the defendant can't even have the judge listen to objections, where is the impartiality of the judge?

MMMMyah...let me see what staw I will grab.

 

[flybynite]

How about the 800 lb. gorilla called Windfall???

 

[nycbusdriver]

Vote No and don't come back later and try to curry favor with the west when your pet issue needs their support.

Hahahahaha! Great line! It's always fun to find a westie with a sense of humor.

Nothing the east has wanted from the west has had any support whatsoever. The olive branches tossed to the west by the east have been thrown in our faces at every turn (see: profit sharing.)

Now, do you really think that the east even NEEDS your support for anything? Did you miss the election results of April 17, 2008? The east doesn't need you for anything. You've shown your colors, and we all know where you stand. Now, pardon us while we ignore you to the legal limit and go about our business.

 

[cleardirect]

How about the 800 lb. gorilla called Windfall???

Windfall. Are you referring to the top 517 east pilots? Maybe you are referring to the 85% of the contract that the east is going to get. Could the windfall be the fact that the east still has a job because of the merger? Which one are you talking about?

 

[cleardirect]

Hahahahaha! Great line! It's always fun to find a westie with a sense of humor.

Nothing the east has wanted from the west has had any support whatsoever. The olive branches tossed to the west by the east have been thrown in our faces at every turn (see: profit sharing.)

Now, do you really think that the east even NEEDS your support for anything? Did you miss the election results of April 17, 2008? The east doesn't need you for anything. You've shown your colors, and we all know where you stand. Now, pardon us while we ignore you to the legal limit and go about our business.

Very nice synopsis of a DFR. The west might consider suing for duty of fair representation. Oh wait, we all ready are. And it is going pretty well.

The olive branches! Would that be the first act of usapa filing a RICO suit? Could it be the first letter sent to the west was a threatening letter demanding dues? Most recently the testimony of Sulley. Was that designed to bridge the gap? No that was the star bomb thrown in the room.

But thank you for concisely stating the east position and why we are suing. The east does not need or want the west for anything. Except our airplanes or flying and our seats.

As far as the west supporting you in things. Might want to check with your BPR rep before you start making statements that are not true.

We know facts getting in the way of a perfectly good fantasy.

The rapid decline into craziness will be fun to watch. Where is my popcorn?

 

[prechilill]

If the verdict goes our way the east is pretty miuch cornered. They were allowed tremendous wiggle room to evade agreements through nebulous labor laws but now with the federal courts involved they will actually have to comply with the letter of the law. No more hiding, no more running. A verdict against the east will certainly be a surprise to the easties on here, but the damages part will probably put them over the edge. Many of them haven't a clue as to where they are really heading, but soon they will understand their "union" is nothing more than a gang of thugs. If only the shoe were on the other foot, you would see the courageous anonymous posters hiding behind screen names singing different tunes about what is appropriate for unions to do. Suing their own members isn't one, lying about the law, lying about the boudaries of what a union can and cannot do aren't there either. Dumb, emotional people started USAPA and that is why when confronted by a few savvy, intelligent west pilots who created AOL USAPA is crumbling. They cannot deliver on any of their campaign promises and one year into this abomination they have accomplished nothing! And we haven't even gotten to a verdict in the Addington case. What's going to happen then? USAPA is pretty much out of options- they painted themsleves into a corner through actions which will cost the east membership dearly.
Here is a possible scenario if Addington prevails: the damages will be a lot (way beyond the ~1.5 mil in legal expenses they will be paying for east and west). My take is assessments will be made to the east pilots (can't assess the west since we are all members of the same class action), nobody will pay, the union won't collect and then a federal judge will put the union into trusteeship. The trustee will collect the money (I estimate 2-3k for every east pilot) and make the west whole. Now, the divide between east and west will be bigger than ever, but again after the east launched its assault on the west the two groups were pretty much irreconcilable then so not much will have changed. This story is going to end with a federal remedy possibly with the help of another merger which would significantly dilute the stranglehold the emotional easties have on labor governance. Basically, we are seeing the death of a monster this week and the Addington name will be heard in many labor law classes as to what a labor union actually can do. Rewriting and ignoring arbitration decisions isn't one of them. Irresponsibility is going to come with a price.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Very nice synopsis of a DFR. The west might consider suing for duty of fair representation. Oh wait, we all ready are. And it is going pretty well.

The olive branches! Would that be the first act of usapa filing a RICO suit? Could it be the first letter sent to the west was a threatening letter demanding dues? Most recently the testimony of Sulley. Was that designed to bridge the gap? No that was the star bomb thrown in the room.

But thank you for concisely stating the east position and why we are suing. The east does not need or want the west for anything. Except our airplanes or flying and our seats.

As far as the west supporting you in things. Might want to check with your BPR rep before you start making statements that are not true.

We know facts getting in the way of a perfectly good fantasy.

The rapid decline into craziness will be fun to watch. Where is my popcorn?

Sadly for you, I'm not on the witness list.

Good luck with that. I'm glad you think it's going so swimmingly well. That's your opinion. And, I imagine you're not on the witness list either, so your opinion counts for zilch.

Let's just wait for the judge's verdict and the jury's decision.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If the verdict goes our way the east is pretty miuch cornered. They were allowed tremendous wiggle room to evade agreements through nebulous labor laws but now with the federal courts involved they will actually have to comply with the letter of the law. No more hiding, no more running. A verdict against the east will certainly be a surprise to the easties on here, but the damages part will probably put them over the edge. Many of them haven't a clue as to where they are really heading, but soon they will understand their "union" is nothing more than a gang of thugs. If only the shoe were on the other foot, you would see the courageous anonymous posters hiding behind screen names singing different tunes about what is appropriate for unions to do. Suing their own members isn't one, lying about the law, lying about the boudaries of what a union can and cannot do aren't there either. Dumb, emotional people started USAPA and that is why when confronted by a few savvy, intelligent west pilots who created AOL USAPA is crumbling. They cannot deliver on any of their campaign promises and one year into this abomination they have accomplished nothing! And we haven't even gotten to a verdict in the Addington case. What's going to happen then? USAPA is pretty much out of options- they painted themsleves into a corner through actions which will cost the east membership dearly.
Here is a possible scenario if Addington prevails: the damages will be a lot (way beyond the ~1.5 mil in legal expenses they will be paying for east and west). My take is assessments will be made to the east pilots (can't assess the west since we are all members of the same class action), nobody will pay, the union won't collect and then a federal judge will put the union into trusteeship. The trustee will collect the money (I estimate 2-3k for every east pilot) and make the west whole. Now, the divide between east and west will be bigger than ever, but again after the east launched its assault on the west the two groups were pretty much irreconcilable then so not much will have changed. This story is going to end with a federal remedy possibly with the help of another merger which would significantly dilute the stranglehold the emotional easties have on labor governance. Basically, we are seeing the death of a monster this week and the Addington name will be heard in many labor law classes as to what a labor union actually can do. Rewriting and ignoring arbitration decisions isn't one of them. Irresponsibility is going to come with a price.

You are truly dreaming. If this goes for the west (and I have always conceded that real possibility,) the east is not cornered. If the jury awards outrageous sums, the east is not cornered. My hunch is that we would simply abandon the unincorporated USAPA and walk away.

You are suing USAPA, not me, or any other east pilot. We are NOT individually responsible for a judgment against USAPA. And if USAPA dissolves, where is it that you think you will get that money?

If the west prevails and the jury has not been paying attention, you may well cause the demise of USAPA. That would be the worst case scenario. If you are out buying a new Mercedes based on your aniticpated windfall, look for it to be repossessed quickly after the dust settles.