US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[toganoflex]

Actually, the last three lines of what I printed re: Sully were from cross-examination. Don't shoot me.

I'm not sure I buy the handed his rear end stuff. Marty Harper did take the role of the sage older attorney deflating the sails of the celebrity witness. It took a lot of skill to handle that difficult job as well as he did. As for a net benefit/deficit I think in the long run it didn't hurt. What I do think the defendants got lucky about was that the witness/celebrity may have taken forefront in the jury's memories of what happened as they head to the weekend. The alternative was Mr. Bringle going off in open court in front of the jury.

Sully was embarrassed. Not because of Marty, but because he was ill prepared. Making a statement that Nic hurt him when, in reality, that was far from the truth. He couldn't even tell Marty where he sat on any of the lists. Aaaannnndddd, in the end, he more or less admitted that USAPA's actions hurt him more financially.

And the integrity thing - wow. Marty had Sully tell the jury that USAPA's actions didn't jive with his own definition of integrity. And thanks to Seham and company for allowing us to use ALPA merger policy and the Nic during cross.

And Brengle's behavior showed that he lost Sully. His objections fell on deaf ears as he tried to protect Sully from Marty's questioning to a point where a bailiff was summoned into the courtroom.

Heck of a circus Brengle and Seham are putting on with all their huffing and objecting.

Can't wait to see Jack's cross on Tuesday.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Cleardirect is correct regarding the Judge also (again) getting mad at Mr. Bringle for continuing to interrupt plaintiff's cross of Sully. It wasn't as bad as the prior incident earlier, but the Judge was visibly upset at the attempt to disrupt the flow of the cross-examination.

When the judge silences the defendant's attorney without hearing reasons for the objection, it sounds to me like the type of procedural errors that will allow the case to go to appeal. If the defendant can't even have the judge listen to objections, where is the impartiality of the judge?

 

[flybynite]

AZ Central has an article about Sully's testimony on line. Also the blogsphere at AZcentral is really heating up.

I hope the jurors aren't sneaking a peek at the nastiness on the blog.

 

[cleardirect]

I see. So...hiring lawyers and mouthing off presumably does?

Are you talking about usapa filing the RICO suit? Or the east MEC filing the law suit in DC?


No one out west has ever claimed hero status.

 

[hp_fa]

When the judge silences the defendant's attorney without hearing reasons for the objection, it sounds to me like the type of procedural errors that will allow the case to go to appeal. If the defendant can't even have the judge listen to objections, where is the impartiality of the judge?

I disagree with that, but I haven't seen an actual transcript of what the court reporter caught and how it came across on the record. However, in person my read was that Mr. Brengle was raising the same objections and his intent was to disrupt the cross-examination, which is not allowed.

As for preparedness, I thought he was prepared sufficiently. However, I really need to find a transcript and analyze it for what was said. My initial opinion was that it was a wash.

 

[EastUS]

Sully takes the stand:

How does his "shock of the onesidedness" of the Nic award have anything to do with a DFR suit? Why would Judge Wake allow him to testify? Why are questions about the fairness or unfairness of the Nic even relevent to this case? From a laymans point of view and from someone who has never even been to small claims court, I don't get it.

Well...the entire evidenced purpose of the DFR action is purely to force the Nic "seniority" list into being, isn't it? Is it truly so unreasonable for the jurors to be afforded as much perspective as possible as to what's really going on? Did you folks out west honestly ever believe all the self-generated propaganda that, and I quote: "the "F" word" = Fairness, couldn't and wouldn't be raised at any level in court?

Rhetorical question here = Is the west truly seeking "justice", or just out for another personal "score" for themselves here?

Relax. None of us can or will know what's in the minds of the jurors until their verdict is read. Who knows how this will end?

Have a good day and a fine weekend.

 

[EastUS]

Are you talking about usapa filing the RICO suit? Or the east MEC filing the law suit in DC?


No one out west has ever claimed hero status.

1) Negative. I was talking of respecting actual deeds performed, versus mouthy, spiteful and utterly childish BS..such as your ferocious declaration of how you would deny Captain Sullenberger your precious jumpseat based upon your asserted "disgust" for the man.

2) Don't even go there You've at least one prime example within your poster ranks of a person not only claiming "war hero status", but falsely claiming it in the process. Show me where anyone out east has avowed themselves to be any "hero"???

Chill out. Nothing posted here's going to matter in court. This is all up to the jurors, subsequent appeals from whichever side fails to prevail, etc.

 

[toganoflex]

1) Not everyone shares your obsessions there.

No "obsessions" here at all. But if you're going to make a claim on the stand you sure as hell better be able to back it up with facts. Sully was completely, and I mean oblivious, to the fact that his number was the same on all the lists and that nothing changed. Add to that the fact that by the east walking away from negotiations when we were literally only a week or two away from signing a contract with a $122 m value ($108 to the east alone), and you have Sully admitting that the east's actions hurt him and Nic with a new contract would have only benefitted him. Also liked hearing our lawyer point out that his commute would have been shortened substantially because he would have been able to hold PHX.

And Sully was also oblivious to that fact.

2) You're fantasizing that your supposed "Integrity Matters", only by way of your attempting to force an arbitrator's whim through legal action...and you're meanwhile assaulting the actual integrity of a "fellow pilot" who's decisions and actions provided for continued life for a lot of people, had the presence of mind and personal discipline to twice check and ensure that all were safely off the sinking aircraft,and has, in all ways, presented the piloting profession to the public in the finest light possible. Your "issue" with the man appears to be merely that he simply doesn't believe that all out west should leapfrog ahead of those with more time worked and experience gained. For that reason alone, it seems you've all not the slightest personal shame in assailing even his "integrity story".

All the west attacks of this sort do is serve to fully illuminate your true colors and personal "values" for ready viewing by any readers.

And I'm complete assaulting Sully's integrity because he deserves it. He made a complete fool of himself on the stand by being ill-prepared and using his highly-rehearsed (no joke) answers to Brengle's questions. Amazing how quickly he fell apart and how hard Brengle tried to protect him when Marty started into his cross.

That integrity story was pathetic. And watching Marty flip it on him to where Sully admitted USAPA's actions didn't meet Sully's definition was the highlight of the day.

So my "issue" with Sully is that he's a sell-out. He let USAPA use his celebrity status to advance their agenda (and at his expense I might add). Add to that the fact he didn't find it necessary to prep for his time on the stand because he thought he was too good for that, and you can see why I won't be buying his book.

That integrity story sucked BTW.

 

[jetjok1]

Sulley was in court today.

Piloting an airplane to a safe landing does not make one a hero. In this case after hearing his testimony it simply makes him lucky. The actions taken before, during or after the event are what make someone a hero.

After watching the actions of this US Airways pilot on the stand today I do not consider his actions heroic. Listening to Sulley’s USAPA prepared talking points I was offended and sickened.

I have avoided the jumpseat war myself. I have never denied anyone the jumpseat. I do not plan on denying the jumpseat with one exception. If he plans on returning. After hearing Sulley today, that man is not welcome on any flight deck that I have responsibility for. This is not an east thing, this is a disgust thing. He either volunteered or allowed usapa to use him in an undignified manner.

The plaintiffs attorney respectfully but forcefully took him apart on the stand. Brengle tried objecting to every question. After about the fifth objection. The judge told Brengle to sit down and stop interrupting. As soon as the cross exam was complete. No redirect, Sulley left the court room in a blur with all of the defense attorneys in trail.

This was after the morning witness where Seham became very shrill and stormed back to his table. And Brengle screwing himself into the overhead in front of the jury when one of the plaintiffs calmly countered every question Brengle could throw at him.

If this was the big moment usapa was hoping for, it fell flat. The jury did not sit up when he entered. I don’t know that they realized who he was at first. But after the cross, I don’t believe that it helped the case in the least.

That a way Clear-Bravo!! You show him who's boss on the J/S.

Not denying any jumpseats.....Well! I can throw your name off THAT list!!!

You guys were just waiting for something to take and bad mouth a positive into the ground. Just reading the West's post say it in so many words. Hey, Sully.... ah.....he's no big deal. anybody could have done that. Yeah, well you weren't there and neither was I. It's always easier to say in hindsight.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I'll never knock Sully's flying skills, what he accomplished speaks for itself, but I don't appreciated what he tried to do on the stand. He should have just stayed out of it.

Well my little boy asked me "daddy, what does integrity mean?" Please. Just a rehearsed attempt at spinning a west phrase and throwing it in our face.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Hey, Sully.... ah.....he's no big deal. anybody could have done that. Yeah, well you weren't there and neither was I. It's always easier to say in hindsight.

I don't think anyone out west said what Sully did was easy. What we are knocking is your penchant for labeling him a hero as if he should have his own holiday. Sully had NO experience in ditching airliners. Period. He got lucky. And for the record I think that is a good thing. No one wants to see anyone hurt or dead. He did a good job with what he thought he had. I will say with confidence that we all would do the best with what we have. That's our job.

As far as getting up on the stand... Sully wrecked himself there. Frankly I'd be surprised if the jury even remembers who he is after the weekend. We seem to be the only ones still discussing Sully. That media blitz lasted a couple of weeks and quickly faded. I say this because nary a juror seemed to be moved when he entered the court room. It is also interesting that reports from those in attendance tell of Sully smiling and making eye contact with the jury as he recited his name for the jury to hear. Not one was moved by that. So either they don't remember who he is(likely). Or they didn't seem to care.

 

[hp_fa]

Well my little boy asked me "daddy, what does integrity mean?" Please. Just a rehearsed attempt at spinning a west phrase and throwing it in our face.

Yeah, that was rehearsed and over the top.

After Sully left a female defense attorney entered the courtroom for the first time that I had been there starting at Day 2, and she looked like the cat that swallowed the canary. She was quite proud of herself.

Now to see how it played out for the jury....

 

[EastUS]

Wow, that's it. That's all you can come up with East?

I don't feel that you west folks need anymore "help" from my postings. I believe that you're doing a wonderful job evidencing your true colors and "Integrity" all by yourselves.........

 

[Phoenix]

I disagree with that, but I haven't seen an actual transcript ...

 

[Metroyet]

I believe that you're doing a wonderful job evidencing your true colors and "Integrity" all by yourselves.........

The hypocrisy is bone crushing. The sad thing is, the average Eastie, including Lucky Sully, don't see it.

Also, Lucky Sully is the worlds worst actor even with all that rehearsal. On the stand, Lucky Sully couldn't define or describe the word "Integrity" with any consistency.,

Perhaps he should attempt to explain "moral relativism" to his toddler, he certainly has that one figured out.