US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[USPHX]

I'll post more in a bit but the headliner at trial was Sully, not necessarily for what he said but by name recognition.

Sully takes the stand:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles...estand0502.html

How does his "shock of the onesidedness" of the Nic award have anything to do with a DFR suit? Why would Judge Wake allow him to testify? Why are questions about the fairness or unfairness of the Nic even relevent to this case? From a laymans point of view and from someone who has never even been to small claims court, I don't get it.

 

[luvn737s]

Seham's still looking up the word "principle".

 

[cleardirect]

Sulley was in court today.

Piloting an airplane to a safe landing does not make one a hero. In this case after hearing his testimony it simply makes him lucky. The actions taken before, during or after the event are what make someone a hero.

After watching the actions of this US Airways pilot on the stand today I do not consider his actions heroic. Listening to Sulley’s USAPA prepared talking points I was offended and sickened.

I have avoided the jumpseat war myself. I have never denied anyone the jumpseat. I do not plan on denying the jumpseat with one exception. If he plans on returning. After hearing Sulley today, that man is not welcome on any flight deck that I have responsibility for. This is not an east thing, this is a disgust thing. He either volunteered or allowed usapa to use him in an undignified manner.

The plaintiffs attorney respectfully but forcefully took him apart on the stand. Brengle tried objecting to every question. After about the fifth objection. The judge told Brengle to sit down and stop interrupting. As soon as the cross exam was complete. No redirect, Sulley left the court room in a blur with all of the defense attorneys in trail.

This was after the morning witness where Seham became very shrill and stormed back to his table. And Brengle screwing himself into the overhead in front of the jury when one of the plaintiffs calmly countered every question Brengle could throw at him.

If this was the big moment usapa was hoping for, it fell flat. The jury did not sit up when he entered. I don’t know that they realized who he was at first. But after the cross, I don’t believe that it helped the case in the least.

 

[hp_fa]

Trail - Day Four

The trial continued with Russ Payne on the stand. He testified, under defense direct exam to the following (remember I am only taking notes on what I think are key points and one person's notes will differ from another person's notes)

New hires are not part of the Class in the class action

The June 2008 furloughs (approx. 175 West/125 East)

Of the approx 300 East recalls from furlough, they were still under the last active pilot on the Nicolau active list

There was pre-merger discontent at West and it was in the form of AWAPA, led by John McIlvenna

National ALPA considered the Nicolau Award to be a problem and formed the Rice Committee

The Rice Committee functioned similar to a mediation.

Wye River - Attendees were from National ALPA, East and West. National ALPA was mainly represented by Prater and attorneys (there may be others)

Wye River lasted a week to a week and a half

The West MEC exercises control over its committees

West never offerred any significant changes to Nicolau

Wye River concluded in Jan 2008

National ALPA did not use all reasonable means to implement Nicolau

National ALPA was trying to get East to conclude negotiations

Has previously heard of unions submitting TA's (tentative agreements) to membership in order to have the membership vote down the TA

Cross-examination by plaintiffs

ALPA did not put East in to trusteeship early, but eventually put the PHL LEC into recievership

Wye River had 10 West pilots present and East had a conceptual proposal that was not formally submitted

Rice Committee met for 2-3 months, 2-3 days at a ttime. West attended and East never made a proposal

The TA laid out how the merger would proceed

No West new hires were brought onboard until all East furloughees were offerred recall

Briefly mentioned (not in any detail at all) the concept of pre-merger and post-merger considerations

Re-Direct by defendants

Only 6-7 East furloughees accepted recall to West

(this concluded the early part of the Defendants' case-in-chief that was done prior to the Plaintiffs' finishing presenting their case-in-chief)

Plaintiffs' witness Al Hemenway (via deposition) (The deposition was apparently noticed by defendant. However the plaintiffs' read excepts of this into the record and it was not actually distinguished when defense counsel concluded his questions and plaintiffs began theirs since it was read into the record as a unified deposition.)

The Kirby Proposal was a comprehensive solution to all open issues (All pilots to West rates and 3% raise, net cost to the company was estimated to be $122 mil)

The Kirby Proposal is still open (I think I heard that correctly)

The company has not breached the TA by not finalizing the Joint CBA

The company accepted the Nicolau list and has met the criteria of the TA

Company stuck in the middle while East and West "jockey"

The company had agreed to accept a seniority list that met certain criteria and they have done so

The company did not file a grievance against ALPA for not forwarding a list quickly

The company expected a 2-3 year integration as of Fall 2005

The company and USAPA are far apart

USAPA and the company remain substantially apart on many sections, including Section 22.

"USAPA contract demands unachievable."

"Out of the realm of achievable"

Only four sections are currently TA'd

Lunch break

Plaintiffs call Afshin Iranpour

Started with AWA in July 2004

Mesa 1995-1999

USAir Nov. 1999- Dec. 2001 (Don't beat me up on USAir name. I don't personally know what the name was in 1999, USAir or US Airways)

Hired by AWA June 2004

Started training July 2004 for A-320

When he was with USAir he estimates upgrade to Capt takes 13 years

At AWA he was told about 7 years to upgrade

Was offered US Airways (East) recall in Nov 2006, he opted to stay with AWA

April 2009, furloughed from AWA

He has no further recall rights from US Airways (East)

At the time of Nicolau he was in the 90th percentile

USAPA list had him very near the bottom 98-99% ?)

If Nicolau had been used he would not have been furloughed

He never received USAPA campaign materials (no West pilot has that testified)

After USAPA was voted in he got mail, a bill

Discussed "final and binding" and that ALPA could not take Nicolau away

Cross-examination

Would not accept recall if it cost an active pilot his job

Discussed ALPA position v. USAPA position

(At this point a major argument broke out between defense counsel Bringle, the witness and the court in front of the jury. It was the worst argument I had ever personally seen in front of a jury in open court. A US Marshall (security) actually came into the back of the courtroom. (Security button pushed by Judge or bailiff?)

Has he accepted East recall he would still be flying.

Plaintiffs rest their case-in-chief

Defense begins

(A Rule 50 motion (directed verdict after plaintiffs' case-in-chief) was not made in open court, however it may have well been made at sidebar.)

Sully called

Started with PSA, has 29 years experience, domiciled in CLT

Familiar with the Nicolau award

Number 274 on both Nicolau and USAPA lists

Chooses to be a senior domestic pilot for quality of life issues (Trips and time at home)

Was "shocked" by Nicolau

He is a USAPA supporter

He considers fair and equitable to produce no windfall

ALPA process flawed

People should keep their word, but the process is flawed


Defendants call Jack Stephan

Currently a PHL Int'l Captain

Never furloughed

Reviewed his MEC experience, including a Chairman

Nicolau Award not unanimous

MEC hired new counsel right after Nicolau (Baptiste & Wilder)

Heard of Nicolau decision on 5/3/07 at 8:25 pm and immediately called a MEC meeting for the following Sunday (1st available date)

Capt. Prater called him soon after Nicolau

Prater was invited to the East meeting

The pace of negotiations had been "sluggish"

Met with the company on 5/9 regarding economic matters

Was unaware of any ALPA National deadline for a CBA

Kirby Proposal - "Woefully inadequate"

Kirby did not think Nicolau would stand as is

5/21/07 ALPA Exec Committee meeting with East, West and 300 pilots

Rice Committee consisted of 12 people, 3-4 would be at each session

Rice Committee offered for discussion a possible proposal with rules and conditions

East was generating profits per quarterly filings

Did not think he got much pay parity support from the West MEC

The Blue Ribbon Committee - Roland Wilder highly encouraged East to pursue that, and that led to Joint MEC meetings on DEN and LAS starting 11/07

Court adjourns. Some housekeeping on Monday and trial resumes Tuesday.

 

[hp_fa]

Cleardirect is correct regarding the Judge also (again) getting mad at Mr. Bringle for continuing to interrupt plaintiff's cross of Sully. It wasn't as bad as the prior incident earlier, but the Judge was visibly upset at the attempt to disrupt the flow of the cross-examination.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Cleardirect is correct regarding the Judge also (again) getting mad at Mr. Bringle for continuing to interrupt plaintiff's cross of Sully. It wasn't as bad as the prior incident earlier, but the Judge was visibly upset at the attempt to disrupt the flow of the cross-examination.

Why no notes regarding cross examination of Sully? Let's be fair here... I hear he had his rear-end handed to him on a couple of points. Care to confirm or deny that?

 

[toganoflex]

If any of you east guys see Sully, be sure to thank him for me.

His testimony helped our cause beyond anything that we could have imagined.

I mean, not even knowing your number on any list?

And that integrity story - priceless.

 

[cleardirect]

Why no notes regarding cross examination of Sully? Let's be fair here... I hear he had his rear-end handed to him on a couple of points. Care to confirm or deny that?

The plaintiff's lawyer took Sulley apart. As I said Sulley departed the court room quickly with defense in trail. The court will allow the transcripts so they should be available soon.

Seham is probably regretting the choice of Sulley instead of Bradford.

 

[toganoflex]

And one more thing, could you USAPians ask your mothership to put out a blast asking those east pilots that attend to:

1. Not eat their McMuffins in the court room

2. Turn off their cell phones

3. Iron their uniform shirts - they look like they're on day three

 

[prechilill]

Sully is the luckiest pilot in America... Absolutely no doubt mistakes were made on the flight deck that afternoon, but as Joe Walker said, "any landing you can walk away from is a good one". The guy lost a lot of respect, though, for using his undeserved notoriety to talk about something he knows nothing about in a case which has caused so much damage to the west pilots. Which is probably why Sully got dismantled by Marty Harper and why Bregle almost got thrown out of court over it. Another USAPA calamity. What a collection of clowns...

 

[EastUS]

Sulley was in court today.

Piloting an airplane to a safe landing does not make one a hero.

I see. So...hiring lawyers and mouthing off presumably does?

 

[EastUS]

Sully is the luckiest pilot in America... Absolutely no doubt mistakes were made on the flight deck that afternoon, but as Joe Walker said, "any landing you can walk away from is a good one". The guy lost a lot of respect, though, for using his undeserved notoriety to talk about something he knows nothing about in a case which has caused so much damage to the west pilots. Which is probably why Sully got dismantled by Marty Harper and why Bregle almost got thrown out of court over it. Another USAPA calamity. What a collection of clowns...

"Sully is the luckiest pilot in America..." yes indeed...everything's all about "luck" out west. I really can't argue with that anymore, just from what thought processes I've seen posted here.

"Absolutely no doubt mistakes were made on the flight deck that afternoon, " Name some "mistakes" that "were made" or shut up.

"The guy lost a lot of respect, though," I'll hazard a guess he's none too concerned with such whimsical "respect" that's entirely based not upon actual deeds, but rather..how his testimony didn't suit your personal wishes out west.... "his undeserved notoriety"? No comment really required there, as that sort of arrogant insanity speaks for itself.

".. to talk about something he knows nothing about" Well..that's certainly true, after all; what could anyone know about the business from only 29 years of airline flying and several mergers?

 

[hp_fa]

Why no notes regarding cross examination of Sully? Let's be fair here... I hear he had his rear-end handed to him on a couple of points. Care to confirm or deny that?

Actually, the last three lines of what I printed re: Sully were from cross-examination. Don't shoot me.

I'm not sure I buy the handed his rear end stuff. Marty Harper did take the role of the sage older attorney deflating the sails of the celebrity witness. It took a lot of skill to handle that difficult job as well as he did. As for a net benefit/deficit I think in the long run it didn't hurt. What I do think the defendants got lucky about was that the witness/celebrity may have taken forefront in the jury's memories of what happened as they head to the weekend. The alternative was Mr. Bringle going off in open court in front of the jury.

 

[hp_fa]

And one more thing, could you USAPians ask your mothership to put out a blast asking those east pilots that attend to:

2. Turn off their cell phones

The gent with the cellphone was right next to me and folks started at me at first. I didn't move a muscle so they knew it wasn't me. (Mine was off and is off during trial.) The poor guy looked like he wanted to dig a hole right there in the courtroom and jump in it. We joked about it later before he left for PHL for a trip tomorrow.

 

[EastUS]

I mean, not even knowing your number on any list?

And that integrity story - priceless.

1) Not everyone shares your obsessions there.

2) You're fantasizing that your supposed "Integrity Matters", only by way of your attempting to force an arbitrator's whim through legal action...and you're meanwhile assaulting the actual integrity of a "fellow pilot" who's decisions and actions provided for continued life for a lot of people, had the presence of mind and personal discipline to twice check and ensure that all were safely off the sinking aircraft,and has, in all ways, presented the piloting profession to the public in the finest light possible. Your "issue" with the man appears to be merely that he simply doesn't believe that all out west should leapfrog ahead of those with more time worked and experience gained. For that reason alone, it seems you've all not the slightest personal shame in assailing even his "integrity story".

All the west attacks of this sort do is serve to fully illuminate your true colors and personal "values" for ready viewing by any readers.