US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

[Metroyet]

Metro, I am going to spot you this one, since you claim not to be a pilot here. OK, get real comfortable in that corner office, and get Sharon to bring you some of that fine ALPA coffee....How in Gods' name does the west magically get in on the pay when there is separate ops, and there is seperate pay right now, two different contracts? You are REALLY losing it when you say "the company is not dumb enough to start discriminating benefits withIN a pilot group" This pretty much sums up your lack of sit awareness. Where have you been for the last year? They are already paying two separate pay rates, vacation, rigs, sick and on and on!!! This company and your west buddies have been green lighting this deal all along! This is why the East will absolutely hose the west - because it is just returning the favor! We will throw the west under the very first bus that comes along, because they did it for years and laughed about it. And Parker? He is starting to figure this COC out right now, far later than every other player. 0 and 2. Parker blew his chance long ago. Gee, Hate2fly brought this up long before Parker did in that meeting when you guys first clued in on it and the jaws hit the floor. Parker never thought he would have to deal with it, Guess what? He cannot do a thing if he changes control, that is except PAY THE EAST!

So let me get this straight. You think that once a merger happened with say...United, You would still be working under the East contract? So Now you believe that you can maintain a 3 way separate operation? If there is COC, there is a merger, if there is a merger, there is a common contract, if there is a common contract, there is your Nic award. Follow me? I won't even bore you with the fact that USAPA is flat out dead....up in a mushroom cloud if there is a merger of UAL. So in a COC situation, maybe the East would see higher payrates, the rub for you is that those same higher payrates would be paid out to every single pilot on the seniority list. If COC is an issue, there won't be any mergers. Parker told you that pretty plainly. I don't know what lever you think your holding but it's not what you think it is.

 

[cleardirect]

Grasping at straws, more empty threats. You are going to see some real interesting issues with Parker and the COC. Far more important and real than your Fantasy Trial.

How is that CoC working out? So when do the big checks start rolling in for the east?

Reality check. The injunction is in place.

The CoC has not happened. Merger is dead so are your pay raises.

 

[luvthe9]

If this latest story is confirmed to be true, usapa has risked dire consequences. By the behavior displayed, usapa has admitted that their official position is the Nic, and that their official position, regarding their official position, is to do everything in their power to get out of their official position. A completely Seehamesque line of circular logic. They are saying, we are not opposed to the Nic, as long as we can oppose the Nic. Well newflash usapa, not only have you failed the West, you have grossly failed the top 1000 east pilots in your latest escapade.

When the damages trial starts, I cannot wait to see how Cleary explains to the court, that he had an injunction telling him how to negotiate with the company, yet failed to do that for fear that it would impose the injunction that he and his group of job stealing lackies oppose.

Where did they do this? You are totally full of it. USAPA has admitted nothing about the Nic in this. Pure fabrication. The west spin in the COC is really telling. You guys are out of your league, as is Parker. This is lock solid deal killing language, that is, unless they want to pay up. I am in the top 300, and I love USAPA!

 

[oscarjazz]

Let's say USAPA accepts Parker's offer, gets a Delta contract and accepts the Nicolau award in order to facilitate the merger. The would put a 12 year A-320 F/O at a pay rate of $110 an hour which is halfway between your current A-320 and E-190 CAPTAIN rates. Your A-320 captains would go to $162 an hour which is the equivalent of an A-330 captain at LCC now. How many retirements would it take under separate operations to equal that type of career advancement in a short period of time? It equates to everyone on the East list moving up 2 to 3 seat jumps in a short period of time. You don't even have to go to the schoolhouse to get the money.

The quest for the DOH list has blinded some of you guys to the reality of the economics here. This has become an emotional, irrational goal that you will never achieve. Along the way, you continue to throw away every opportunity you have to really improve your lot and not get some hoped for attrition 10 years down the road. The circular firing squad at USAPA is absolutely unbelievable. It is truly sad to watch.

The east has a long history of burning the people who have made tough decisions that are in the best interest of the group. I wonder now if there are any leaders left who could quit pandering to the most vocal group and step up and make the right choice. Maybe not.

 

[luvthe9]

How is that CoC working out? So when do the big checks start rolling in for the east?

Reality check. The injunction is in place.

The CoC has not happened. Merger is dead so are your pay raises.

It is working out for the East just fine.It is a massive ace in the hole. As far as Parker, and those on the west side who want to merge? Not so good. Who said the checks are rolling in? They will if Parker wants to have a CoC. His choice. This really makes it clear how the whole thing worked with the AWA U merge. You guys starting to figure out you got it wrong as far as who financed the deal? Kind of blows the" west saved you "theory out of the water doesn't it. We got it all along.

 

[cleardirect]

It is working out for the East just fine.It is a massive ace in the hole. As far as Parker, and those on the west side who want to merge? Not so good. Who said the checks are rolling in? They will if Parker wants to have a CoC. His choice. This really makes it clear how the whole thing worked with the AWA U merge. You guys starting to figure out you got it wrong as far as who financed the deal? Kind of blows the" west saved you "theory out of the water doesn't it. We got it all along.

If you consider working for the lowest wages in the industry as doing just fine enjoy.

Who said that we want to or need to merge?

 

[luvthe9]

If you consider working for the lowest wages in the industry as doing just fine enjoy.

Who said that we want to or need to merge?

Not asking you. That doesn't matter. Parker. He wants to, He can't. The East holds the ace. We know it, he knows it. CoC language in the contract. LOA 93. We told you there were some aces in it. More to come. LOA 84 pay is going to be the next problem for your boy.

 

[Hate2fly]

Let's say USAPA accepts Parker's offer, gets a Delta contract and accepts the Nicolau award in order to facilitate the merger. The would put a 12 year A-320 F/O at a pay rate of $110 an hour which is halfway between your current A-320 and E-190 CAPTAIN rates. Your A-320 captains would go to $162 an hour which is the equivalent of an A-330 captain at LCC now. How many retirements would it take under separate operations to equal that type of career advancement in a short period of time? It equates to everyone on the East list moving up 2 to 3 seat jumps in a short period of time. You don't even have to go to the schoolhouse to get the money.

The quest for the DOH list has blinded some of you guys to the reality of the economics here. This has become an emotional, irrational goal that you will never achieve. Along the way, you continue to throw away every opportunity you have to really improve your lot and not get some hoped for attrition 10 years down the road. The circular firing squad at USAPA is absolutely unbelievable. It is truly sad to watch.

The east has a long history of burning the people who have made tough decisions that are in the best interest of the group. I wonder now if there are any leaders left who could quit pandering to the most vocal group and step up and make the right choice. Maybe not.

Oscar,

You really should be watching your own store at DL/NW. The NW side of the store is becoming very unhappy. Good luck!

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

Not asking you. That doesn't matter. Parker. He wants to, He can't. The East holds the ace. We know it, he knows it. CoC language in the contract. LOA 93. We told you there were some aces in it. More to come. LOA 84 pay is going to be the next problem for your boy.

luvthe9,

Daddy took the car keys away! Dougie and Scotty are begging for the keys again.

Hate

 

[HP2USFA]

And there's the much anticipated 'hard bank to left' from the East court. Now we're on CoC...

And they're out in force too. Never seen so many 'positive' marks on ranting posts before.

It's better than watching football!

 

[nic4us]

luvthe9,

The west was about to default on the ATSB loan....at the time of the merger they were 15 million above the trigger point. They were down to 115 million bucks. The government already owned AWA. What a sad outfit.....John McCains little desert airline. Team Tempe is starting to figure out that they better be nice to us if they want a deal in the future. I see one of the west co-founders Aquaboy got put on the bench. To bad! He is such a wealth of knowledge for the westies.

Hate

Well, you are obviously a wealth of knowledge. So I must ask. When the West was down to $115 million with a profitable quarter and wall street expectations of more in the future, where did they come up with the money to make the east's payroll to satisfy the bankruptcy judge and the ATSB, who was about to call the east's $900 million loan and get your liquidation?

 

[nic4us]

Not asking you. That doesn't matter. Parker. He wants to, He can't. The East holds the ace. We know it, he knows it. CoC language in the contract. LOA 93. We told you there were some aces in it. More to come. LOA 84 pay is going to be the next problem for your boy.

We will know shortly if "our boy" ( that would be Parker I assume), has any real problems with the fake union. His mistake in this deal was thinking Cleary and Mowery had a brain between them. Doubt he makes that mistake twice. But, I guess the convicts over at usapa think they are in control because they have an "ace" in there CoC language, when in reality what they are going to need is the "get out of jail free" card.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

luvthe9,

The west was about to default on the ATSB loan....at the time of the merger they were 15 million above the trigger point. They were down to 115 million bucks. The government already owned AWA. What a sad outfit.....John McCains little desert airline. Team Tempe is starting to figure out that they better be nice to us if they want a deal in the future. I see one of the west co-founders Aquaboy got put on the bench. To bad! He is such a wealth of knowledge for the westies.

Hate

AWA paid its loans back ahead of time, with interest. The government made a nice profit from lending to AWA, and thousands of jobs were saved in PHX, (and, subsequently in PHL and CLT) The government never owned AWA, it was the first airline to qualify for loans. It was a good deal for everyone, and McCain was doing his job, protecting his constituents.

I'm voting for him again in a few months.

 

[ROACLT]

Continental board to consider merger with United

Continental Airlines' board of directors is meeting Wednesday to review a potential merger with United Airlines, and the carriers are expected to decide within a matter of days whether to combine operations, say people close to the situation.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0428-united--20100427,0,6211931.story

 

[cleardirect]

Continental board to consider merger with United

Continental Airlines' board of directors is meeting Wednesday to review a potential merger with United Airlines, and the carriers are expected to decide within a matter of days whether to combine operations, say people close to the situation.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0428-united--20100427,0,6211931.story

So much for that CoC dream.