US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[ChuckBewFarley]

"These Cowards" ?. Always with the "Cowards" form the west..Sigh...well...not everybody gets the privelege of being "Heroic Spartan Warriors" in "The ARMY of Leonidas"., engaging in JM's "All Out"..umm "Warfare"? 🙄 against the evil east. Heck..many out east have had to cravenly settle in life for just actual warfare. :blink: Guess we'll all just have to live with the shame of that, and the proper brand of "Coward" that it brings from the west. Life's not always "Fair and Equitable". What can one say?

No argument with the "they're damn well going to finish it." part though.

Much like being the standard bearer of 'true unionism' and the carrying the 'gold standard' for seniority.

VNIIMN right??

 

[aquagreen73s]

Question for HPfa, just got a notice for jury duty starting Mar 29, it's the first one I have ever done. My question is I have a colonoscopy sked for April 5, and the notice said I would be on duty for two weeks. I am assuming that would be a medical condition that would keep me from serving, am I correct?.......................Thanks

Tell the court clerk handling jury duty check in, and they'll let you know everything. They might send you up to a court room anyway as your procedure is a week later and they might be able to use you, but all you do then is tell the judge what's going on. They cast a wide net for reasons like you state. Just be sure to show up the first day is all (which, I'm sure you would do anyway). All members of the jury pool have a chance to advise the judge of a conflict. You'll probably get released right then and there. I doubt any more than 10% of a pool ever gets seated on a jury. It's a timing thing. Once in a while you'll see a big chunk of the pool being put to work, but usually it's perhaps one in ten. Heck, you might even get a dismissal in the mail between now and March 29th telling you they don't need you.

Good luck on the procedure. I hear the prep is a lot less tedious. One glass and that's it, right?

 

[cubfan]

Tell the court clerk handling jury duty check in, and they'll let you know everything. They might send you up to a court room anyway as your procedure is a week later and they might be able to use you, but all you do then is tell the judge what's going on. All members of the jury pool have a chance to advise the court of a conflict. You'll probably get released right then and there.

Good luck on the procedure. I hear the prep is a lot less tedious. One glass and that's it, right?

Thanks for the info, I'll do that. I think you are correct, I have to drink a 64oz bottle of Gatorade with some stuff I need to buy at drug store. But I did hear it's not as bad as it used to be. :unsure:

 

[hp_fa]

Just don't have plans for later in the afternoon and evening once you start drinking that stuff. Also, having baby wipes on hand is a good idea.

 

[cynic]

You make a good point, but I feel it's still not that close. Way too many hurdles to over come if they truely are serious about safety. Are they really willing to have a true safety summit and lay all the cards on the table. Cards like 16hr duty days, 100 hr flight months. If they want to be serious, then I'm all in favor of it, as I'm sure most union safety comm. would be. If this is just another band-aid under the umbrella of safety, it won't fly. Fatigue is caused by many different variables, not just one like commuting.

It's about perception and you're going to have a hard time convincing the public that requiring a crew member is in base 12 hours prior to report is less safe than allowing a commute immediately prior to report. There are changes coming to duty day length, though the changes are going to result in junior crew members taking more days to hit the same number of flight hours.

 

[nycbusdriver]

There are changes coming to duty day length,

Maybe so. In my 3 decades plus career in this industry, the FAA has revisited crew duty twice, I believe. And both time they made it worse and less safe, IMHO. Of course, the ATA simply loved it.

Maybe this time the FAA will ignore the usual ATA rants and actually take into account NTSB recommendations, the various crew fatigue research studies they themselves commissioned and other independent studies and make rules that put safety first!

Nah. Never happen. Crews will take it in the shorts again, and airline safety will be improved not one iota.

 

[cleardirect]

It's about perception and you're going to have a hard time convincing the public that requiring a crew member is in base 12 hours prior to report is less safe than allowing a commute immediately prior to report. There are changes coming to duty day length, though the changes are going to result in junior crew members taking more days to hit the same number of flight hours.

The public does not care. They don't care about our contract. They don't care about out working conditions. Most of them think that we are overpaid and underworked.

What the public cares about is what does the ticket cost. If you start telling them that you live in SAN but work in PHL and congress is requireing us to have rest before the flight. They don't care. They don't understand and don't want to know.

Good luck with that. What does the ticket cost. That is the only thing that matters.

 

[hp_fa]

The public does not care. They don't care about our contract. They don't care about out working conditions. Most of them think that we are overpaid and underworked.

That's the truth.

Primarily because management does such a good job of flooding the airwaves, just before any strike action, and letting the public know that pilots and FA's work 70-95 hours a month. The public says "wait, I work 140-180 hours a month" and then equate the flying job to a part time gig. Of course management never bothers to let the public know that those hours are flight hours and don't include other duties that don't show up in the 70-95 hours of flight time.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Maybe so. In my 3 decades plus career in this industry, the FAA has revisited crew duty twice, I believe. And both time they made it worse and less safe, IMHO. Of course, the ATA simply loved it.

Maybe this time the FAA will ignore the usual ATA rants and actually take into account NTSB recommendations, the various crew fatigue research studies they themselves commissioned and other independent studies and make rules that put safety first!

Nah. Never happen. Crews will take it in the shorts again, and airline safety will be improved not one iota.

You make alot of sense when we leave out the alpa, nic, usapa stuff. 🙂 That about sums it up.

 

[cubfan]

Just don't have plans for later in the afternoon and evening once you start drinking that stuff. Also, having baby wipes on hand is a good idea.

Must be a man of experience? I had one 10 yrs ago, and I would have to say you are correct........thanks

 

[Hate2fly]

Greetings,

Just a little update on the Date of Hire Gold Standard. Looks like ALPA is trying to cut their losses. ALPA was founded on DOH principles.

· Mandatory negotiated use of ALPA National Seniority Lists for US and Canada, based on date

of hire (with some allowance to be developed for relative positions on current merged carrier

lists that are not based on date of hire), for pilots unemployed because of furlough or carrier

shutdown, to fill all “new hire†vacancies on ALPA represented carriers, with pilots entitled to

full seniority and longevity credit accrued at prior ALPA represented carrier upon employment,

subject only to a restriction on exercising seniority for bidding purposes until contract bid

restrictions upon “new hire†position are fulfilled



· Establish ALPA National Seniority Lists for US and Canada, based on date of hire (with some

allowance to be developed for relative positions on current merged carrier lists that are not

based on date of hire)


US Airways/Air Canada/Atlas mergers that have turned out to be abortions!



· Pilots unemployed because of furlough or carrier shutdown to have right to “bid,†in order on

NSL, for any “new hire†(growth) vacancies on any ALPA represented carrier; ALPA to

establish and administer growth vacancy bid site for this purpose; most senior pilot on NSL to

be “awarded†growth vacancy; pilot to give up recall rights if furloughee upon completion of

satisfactory completion of training; carrier can hire “off the street†if no bid for the position by

NSL pilot



· Pilots entitled to full seniority and longevity credit accrued at prior ALPA represented carrier

upon employment, subject only to a restriction on exercising seniority for bidding purposes until

standard contract bid restrictions upon “new hire†(growth vacancy) position are fulfilled

I wonder who this next paragraph targets?


· Non-ALPA pilot groups to be integrated into the NSL if they secure ALPA representation or

independent union merges with ALPA by set cutoff date; pilot group that obtains ALPA

representation or merges with ALPA at later date forfeits one year of seniority for each year

after NSL is implemented; pilot group on airline established after NSL implemented will be

subject to time limit cutoff date

You be the judge!

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

Greetings,

Just a little update on the Date of Hire Gold Standard. Looks like ALPA is trying to cut their losses. ALPA was founded on DOH principles.



I wonder who this next paragraph targets?


· Non-ALPA pilot groups to be integrated into the NSL if they secure ALPA representation or

independent union merges with ALPA by set cutoff date; pilot group that obtains ALPA

representation or merges with ALPA at later date forfeits one year of seniority for each year

after NSL is implemented; pilot group on airline established after NSL implemented will be

subject to time limit cutoff date

You be the judge!

Hate

SO? What is your point?

Are you saying that you are ready to go back to ALPA in order to get hiring preference off of furlough? This is only for ALPA carriers, where does that leave USAPA pilots? It does not say straight DOH it says with adjustments for RELATIVE SENIORITY.
If I am reading it right it applies to your position as a NEW HIRE, not to be placed somewhere higher on the list. So if this were in place before the merger the 1800 furlough east pilots would have had the opportunity to be placed on a new hire list at another carrier by their seniority from US Airways. You guys could have been the senior new hire at Virgin America. A 17 year F/O flying with a two captain. Until someone else from US Airway with more DOH came along, got hired and bumped you down the list exercising his DOH.

One last little point. A start up like VA, why would they hire a furloughed pilot with 17 year longevity and have to pay them at top of scale when they could get a new hire and start them off at first year pay? No requirement to hire anyone.

Just like most political issues this is more about appearances than anything else. But it gets guys like the east all excited because DOH is mentioned and you guys point to it and think it makes your point. Are you willing to join ALPA to get on the national furloughed seniority list? That is the point of this, to get US Airways back to ALPA.

We are not ALPA so who cares what they do? The Nicolai list is still the list. If we go back to ALPA and anyone uses this, they will be placed on the new hire list using the Nicolai, after all it is an ALPA product right.

 

[hp_fa]

Must be a man of experience?

True. I have had two and the most recent did seem easier than the one before it. Still, it would not rank in the top 10 things that I would choose to do.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You be the judge!

ALPA still uses Nicolau.

 

[Al Legheny]

Greetings,

Just a little update on the Date of Hire Gold Standard. Looks like ALPA is trying to cut their losses. ALPA was founded on DOH principles.

· Mandatory negotiated use of ALPA National Seniority Lists for US and Canada, based on date

of hire (with some allowance to be developed for relative positions on current merged carrier

lists that are not based on date of hire), for pilots unemployed because of furlough or carrier

shutdown, to fill all “new hire†vacancies on ALPA represented carriers, with pilots entitled to

full seniority and longevity credit accrued at prior ALPA represented carrier upon employment,

subject only to a restriction on exercising seniority for bidding purposes until contract bid

restrictions upon “new hire†position are fulfilled



· Establish ALPA National Seniority Lists for US and Canada, based on date of hire (with some

allowance to be developed for relative positions on current merged carrier lists that are not

based on date of hire)


US Airways/Air Canada/Atlas mergers that have turned out to be abortions!



· Pilots unemployed because of furlough or carrier shutdown to have right to “bid,†in order on

NSL, for any “new hire†(growth) vacancies on any ALPA represented carrier; ALPA to

establish and administer growth vacancy bid site for this purpose; most senior pilot on NSL to

be “awarded†growth vacancy; pilot to give up recall rights if furloughee upon completion of

satisfactory completion of training; carrier can hire “off the street†if no bid for the position by

NSL pilot



· Pilots entitled to full seniority and longevity credit accrued at prior ALPA represented carrier

upon employment, subject only to a restriction on exercising seniority for bidding purposes until

standard contract bid restrictions upon “new hire†(growth vacancy) position are fulfilled

I wonder who this next paragraph targets?


· Non-ALPA pilot groups to be integrated into the NSL if they secure ALPA representation or

independent union merges with ALPA by set cutoff date; pilot group that obtains ALPA

representation or merges with ALPA at later date forfeits one year of seniority for each year

after NSL is implemented; pilot group on airline established after NSL implemented will be

subject to time limit cutoff date

You be the judge!Unfactualbias.com

Hate

Well there does seem to be some stuff out there about the Canada / Canadian thing. It has turned into a real mess with the Canadian Government getting involved. As I undestand it it is still not complete.
There is a blog article somewhere at Unfactualbias.com