US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Pi brat]

A Look at this Bid is enough to see that there is no savings to be had here. If cash savings was what the company was looking for there would be no need to close BOS. This bid is going to generate a tremendous amount of training float. All non productive time.

Who knows how many homes will have to be bought. All the BOS pilots had displacement rights so there are many N (New) and DN (Displaced New) notes on this bid. The cost savings is far out, years probably.

This is just a move to make US Airways look good for a merger.

I'm sure they are scratching their heads in Tempe this morning, trying to figure why all those guys didn't just follow the Airbus to CLT. CLT will short of pilots through the summer.

 

[Al Legheny]

A Look at this Bid is enough to see that there is no savings to be had here. If cash savings was what the company was looking for there would be no need to close BOS. This bid is going to generate a tremendous amount of training float. All non productive time.

Who knows how many homes will have to be bought. All the BOS pilots had displacement rights so there are many N (New) and DN (Displaced New) notes on this bid. The cost savings is far out, years probably.

This is just a move to make US Airways look good for a merger.

There appear to be 435 New or Displaced New positions on this bid. Who knows how many training events that will produce.

 

[BoeingBoy]

With resource planning on the East side, there is no such thing as a bid without lots of movement up, down, or both - I saw it for 16 years. So in a sense, the training float is always there and represents a semi-permanent cost (or not - which management person once said "Training is a fixed cost"?).

Closing a small base, on the other hand, generates permanent savings (at least on the spreadsheet). No extra space to rent, 2 or 3 management pilots and their staff to pay. The true costs of closing BOS or LGA will come when there aren't crews in position to operate flights during irregular ops and they can't get them there in anything like a timely fashion because PHL/DCA are screwed up not BOS/LGA. But that cost will be put in the big box marked "irregular ops costs" and thus unavoidable instead of being a cost of closing the bases.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Those that think they know who you are will be disappointed you didn't take the early out......... ;-)

If medical til Age 65 had been in the package, more would have signed up for the early out.

 

[Metroyet]

Looks like the EVP position is here to stay. Sorry Dear Leader Cleary. Even though the BPR voted "overwhelmingly" to get rid of that position, the West pilots shoved it right back.

The East want's participation in their abortion of a Union, there you have it. Less than 1/3rd east bothered to vote. I guess the same old apathy is creeping back in.

 

[Hate2fly]

Look at the E190 F/O position.............only 73 F/O's. The total positions for the E190 F/O should be 101.
Looks like 28 open positions on the 190. Recalls? By the way, we have over 500 pilots on medical already. Over 90 on LOA.......more than 90 on military and 85 furloughed. They will still be short staffed going into the summer.........notice all the 90/95 hour months.

Hate

 

[Reed Richards]

If medical til Age 65 had been in the package, more would have signed up for the early out.

I thought the PBGC health care credit now paid 80% of medical until 65, following retirement. As we now have pilots nearing the 63-65 year age range, I wonder what the big number, just for health care, would be per pilot for their remaining months? Is it more than the 75K, after tax, that was offered in this round? Probably many more variables here, but I would find it interesting to have some numbers on just the medical benifits to cover the gaps. I can only guess for many it is not just the medical keeping them from leaving. Otherwise, we should have seen more than 28 take the buyout.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

I thought the PBGC health care credit now paid 80% of medical until 65, following retirement.

Something may have changed in the last month or so, but I asked the HCTC folks just that the last time I needed to talk to them. At that time, the 80% (part of the stimulus package) was set to expire in December of this year, and they had no way of knowing whether Congress would change that or not. If not, it would go back to the 65%.

the out of pocket cost for post retirement health coverage (really post COBRA coverage unless one can get a good deal on individual coverage) will vary not only by what percentage is covered by the HCTS, but what approved plans are offered and the rate for the individual (or individual and spouse if spousal coverage is needed). Just one data point, but in NC BC/BS offers the only approved plan available if one elects to use COBRA. For my wife and I, it's $700+ per month for the equivalent of the middle company plan with the HCTC paying 80% of the premium. When COBRA first ran out (age 61.5) our out of pocket cost was a little over $400/month with the HCTC paying 65% of the premium - about what the company plan would be if I were still working at that time. Don't know how much a pilot would currently pay for the same company plan..

Jim

 

[EastUS]

It appears the USAPA holding action has finally paid off for you and Steve Bradford.

Congratulations on your PHL A320 Captain Bid. Results just came out on Wings.

Sorry. I've no interest in a 320. Guess again.

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps you could take your own advice on this one before suggesting it to others. Here's a good summary from Part Three:
Win people to your way of thinking
1. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say, "You're wrong."
3. If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
4. Begin in a friendly way.
5. Get the other person saying "yes, yes" immediately.
6. Let the other person do a great deal of the talking.
7. Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers.
8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
9. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
10. Appeal to the nobler motives.
11. Dramatize your ideas.
12. Throw down a challenge.


I'm sure all the friends you have won on the west will affirm that you not only understand the principles of Mr. Carnegie's book, but that you also make a point to practice them at every opportunity.

Your point's well taken. (save for 12. "Throw down a challenge"...I've never had any luck with any response from that with the west) In full honesty...I'd personally fail even remedial Dale Carnegie study myself, and have not the slightest skills as a "diplomat"... but then...I'm not trying to convince the west to vote into being something I find to be an unprincipled abomination that'd slaughter their seniority...much less for any larger group than "my" own to eviscerate the seniority of so many of their own.....