US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

[pilot]

The west ignorance of the east pilot groups mindset is startling. Truly.

 

[nic4us]

The west ignorance of the east pilot groups mindset is startling. Truly.

As startling as the east pilots ignorance of the West?

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Get a contract to vote on and your east pilots wont support your cause any longer. They WILL vote for it, some can vote No, but the majority will vote YES. You know it, I know it, Parker knows it. Its only a matter of time.

Cleary knows it too, that why he's afraid to put up a contract to vote on.

What Contract?

Was there a TA (tentative agreement not transition agreement) somewhere along the way since negotiations began?

 

[Metroyet]

The west ignorance of the east pilot groups mindset is startling. Truly.

The West understands the East perfectly. Lying, Cheating, Stealing and Tyranny are not new concepts.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The West understands the East perfectly. Lying, Cheating, Stealing and Tyranny are not new concepts.

You left out entitlement. Now entitlement is not always bad, but in this case the East wants the West to pay for all the pain that the East had well before the merger.

Its give and take, not take and take (and take and take and take).

 

[Freebird]

What Contract?

Was there a TA (tentative agreement not transition agreement) somewhere along the way since negotiations began?

Read the post. I said "Get a contract to vote on". USAPA is bound to negotiate a joint contract that includes the NIC. And negotiate in good faith. Not delay and waste everyones time. What are YOU afraid of? Do you think your East brothers will 'sell you out' by voting yes for a contract? Get a contract to vote on, prove your resolve.

USAPA is supposed to represent the West as well. Thats how you got yourself a DFR the first time. It must scare you that a contract would pass.


NRBAGFY

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Read the post. I said "Get a contract to vote on".

Fair enough. "Get a Contract to vote on", easier said than done.

With or without 'the Nic' the company has not shown any interest in submitting or agreeing to reasonable terms for a new contract.

There are two sides to the process.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Fair enough. "Get a Contract to vote on", easier said than done.

With or without 'the Nic' the company has not shown any interest in submitting or agreeing to reasonable terms for a new contract.

There are two sides to the process.

Actually negotiating would be nice. Reopening every section of the contract...delay tactic, nothing more. Who is usapa representing??? (Hint-the east group)

It's like east pilots wearing their UNION PILOT badge backers....what a disgrace.

What is a union pilot??

Someone who reneges on agreements? Makes our pilot group look like buffoons? Sues it's members? Calls it's members criminals? Sends out inaccurate bills and threatens to fire members over them? Constantly blames everything on the previous CBA? Intentionally stifles communication from a single domicile? Notice trend here?

Yeah, this is the group I want to represent me....

So far the best result in court is the 'we filed this fully expecting to lose' excuse, come on Scotty, you can do better than that. The crew meal comment is still the best!! Maybe another letter from WM or JJ is in order.

 

[OTTER574]

Fair enough. "Get a Contract to vote on", easier said than done.

With or without 'the Nic' the company has not shown any interest in submitting or agreeing to reasonable terms for a new contract.

There are two sides to the process.

With seperate ops of an airline this size...you east and us west/usapa could have a good contract on the table within 1-2 weeks. It's really that simple.

It makes the latest from the west concerning training backpay seem like a cake walk. Ask parker/isom/bular?

 

[OTTER574]

What is a union pilot??

Someone who reneges on agreements? Makes our pilot group look like buffoons? Sues it's members? Calls it's members criminals? Sends out inaccurate bills and threatens to fire members over them? Constantly blames everything on the previous CBA? Intentionally stifles communication from a single domicile? Notice trend here?

Yeah, this is the group I want to represent me....

So far the best result in court is the 'we filed this fully expecting to lose' excuse, come on Scotty, you can do better than that. The crew meal comment is still the best!! Maybe another letter from WM or JJ is in order.
[/quote]

alpa was not much better. In fact AOL was originally formed to sue alpa/prater and his corrupt alpa national bullshit but certain east alpa/usapa folks took the bait..so to speak. We have one group of pilots and one vote thanks to usapa/seham, us air vp of labor al hemenway and the nmb.

A better contract can be had, but it requires all of us to move on with the NIC of course. seham/cleary NEEDS to drop the stupid rico lawsuit/appeal against west members so we can move forward on this.

We can achieve a better contract but some east and some west will need to step up to the plate so that certain heads will ROLL.

 

[cleardirect]

Fair enough. "Get a Contract to vote on", easier said than done.

With or without 'the Nic' the company has not shown any interest in submitting or agreeing to reasonable terms for a new contract.

There are two sides to the process.

And once again there it is the east blaming someone else. It is always someone else’s fault never the east pilots.

The east pilots tell anyone that will listen.

It was Nicolau’s fault because he was unreasonable and senile and unfair.

It was ALPA’s fault because they have always screwed the east just because they were east pilots.

It is ALPA’s fault because they were unreasonable for not vacating the award.

It is the west’s fault for not acquiescing to the east demands of not rolling over.

It is the judge’s fault for not allowing usapa to screw the west by not representing us fairly.

It is the jury’s fault for finding usapa and the east pilots liable.

It is the ninth’s fault for ruling against the stay.

It will be the ninths fault for upholding judge Wake.

It is the companies fault for not getting a contract.

With all of these things the common denominator is east pilots. There is always someone else to blame.

We will see where the blame lies soon. The NMB is involved now and they can determine who is being unreasonable and who is delaying. It is really hard to believe you east pilots when in one post you say that seperate ops will go on forever then in a nother post you say that it is the companies fault that there is a delay.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Fact. Separate ops until a combined contract.

 

[Metroyet]

We will see where the blame lies soon. The NMB is involved now and they can determine who is being unreasonable and who is delaying. It is really hard to believe you east pilots when in one post you say that seperate ops will go on forever then in a nother post you say that it is the companies fault that there is a delay.

They know it's wrong. They know they're going to lose in court too. It's all about the delays. The plan would have worked beautifully if age 65 hadn't shown up. My prediction is that one year from now, this is all over. Contract included.

 

[nic4us]

They know it's wrong. They know they're going to lose in court too. It's all about the delays. The plan would have worked beautifully if age 65 hadn't shown up. My prediction is that one year from now, this is all over. Contract included.

I do not know how to put a timeline on it, but my prediction would be just as soon as a dollar amount is proposed for the damages trial.

I can easily believe that the east supports their own as long as the status quo is maintained (i.e. loa93), but you start informing these folks it is going to cost them $xxx/month, and any sane individual would push for a resolution sooner rather than later.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

The NMB is involved now and they can determine who is being unreasonable and who is delaying.

That's correct. The Mediator will determine that.

I just don't see Doug and Al Hemenway getting awards for being reasonable and moving the process along. As with the courts, the process will play out regardless of the same old never ending exchanges on here. And on and on it goes.