US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

[luvthe9]

As soon as Doug actually figures out who and when to merge with another carrier, the east folk's plan of seperate ops will be gone like a prom dress.

The only list you will be able to use is the Nic. Period. With no additional conditions or restrictions, either.

Your unethical, slimy tactics are despised by a neutral arbitrator, a federal judge, a jury of our peers, the 9th circuit court of appeals, every other major airline in this country, the general population and the west pilots. You will be forced to pay dearly, and soon.

As soon as Doug figures out who and when to merge? You all are so clueless. Nobody wants to, or can merge with this hulk. You have helped Doug fail, with the labor issues. Keep trying to steal everything you can. It is going to cost you your career. Doug can merge with no one. You cannot work with us. The entire deal is stuck, mired in lawsuits, and union dispute. The worst ever attempted merger, all spoiled by a greed laden group of pilots from the west. This is stuck forever unless Parker offers a minimum of 200/hr for a narrowbody pilot. And until the west agrees to get real. They will not, and hopefully they will be spun off at all possible as they are a problem. Keep hanging everyone out with your greed. Hopefully you will become enough of an obstacle to all involved that you will be spun into Republic.

 

[nic4us]

Actually, if the number of F/O's that would have never checked out without the merger is none - then they all would have checked out But I know what you meant.

You are also making conclusive assertions based on assumption and conjecture. We did not liquidate/fold/close shop etc. That is a fact. Absent the merger with AWA, no one knows with absolute assurance what would have happened in the summer of 2005 and all thoughts in this regard are conjecture.

Granted, at that particular moment in time we were in a real pickle. But our franchise had considerable value and this was recognized by a number of parties who made the merger happen. To write off a legacy airline based on an accountant's snapshot is inaccurate and unfair.

Unfortunately for the east pilots, Nicolau did exactly that and took the short term accountant's view in making his decision, which he wrapped in the amorphous ALPA concept (slogan) "career expectations".

Irrespective of any assumptions or conjecture of what the future may or may not have held for AA and AWA.

To say the Nic prevents east FOs who would have upgraded from doing so is simply a false statement.

Unless you mean to say the Nic prevents FOs who never would have upgraded unless they could get a DOH seniority integration and leapfrog the West's seniority list. But the DOH list did not happen, and that is not conjecture. So the Nic does not prevent FOs, who would have otherwise upgraded from doing so, it allows FOs who would have upgraded from both sides to do so, while maintaining a semblance of both former airlines rosters.

Even if the merger never happened, certain east FOs would never have upgraded due to their lack of seniority and their age. For example Monda, the bottom guy would never have requallified, unless of course he can jump ahead of 80% of the West list, then he has a chance. The data shows that the Nic would have delayed an upgrade for an east FO who was going to upgrade by at most 2 years, most likely considerably less when you think about peoples reluctance to commute. So that less than 2 year delay is a pretty good trade off for the prevention of the other likely scenarios that could have come the east's way, and by the way there was never any mention of how much of a delay the merger cost the West FOs who had there Capt classes cancelled and have still not checked out after 5 years( my point being, the Nic certainly did not accelerate the West FOs expectations).

Bottom line, we do not know for sure what may have happened, but we do know what did happen, and it does not cost any east FO an upgrade they would have had without the merger.

 

[luvthe9]

Well at least your Man enough to finally admit what we already knew. You're the first one I've seen. In almost ANY other circumstance I could respect this tactic. The real problem is what you're describing is patently illegal and discriminatory. You cannot threaten to terminate a West pilots career by demanding payment for the clearly defined behavior you have outlined above. It's called extortion. USAPA has a very clearly defined DUTY TO FAIRLY REPRESENT all pilots. If you stayed ALPA, this would have worked for you. By Forming USAPA and stripping the West of all REAL, (not phony, easily ignored) representation, the East pilots moved from a position of being able to protect their perceived interests to a point where there WAS NO MORE "East or West". That's what screwed you and that's why this Nic. Award will eventually...read sooner rather than later...be implemented by Judicial means. Wake touched on it and at the time, decided against it.

The East pilots will not be allowed to dictate the terms much longer. I really wish the East would have moved off of DOH and read the tea leaves a little better. They probably could have done better than the Nic if some forward thinking, rational minds had been involved. Instead it was All or nothing, winner take all, take no prisoners. That attitude has completely failed the East and the craziest thing of all, is that type of behavior was amplified by orders of magnitude as soon as USAPA showed up. This B.S. Does not work!!! Hopefully some adult supervision will eventually show up over there.

ALPA National BS It is all over for ALPA. DOA GONE Thank God for the death of ALPA Why don't you spend your ALPA dues intake on another cause instead of this dead horse? You don't even work here by your own admission. Try to get some flight schools into ALPA, you are running out of others. How can you take the dues from honest, hard working regional pilots, and spend your time here. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[cynic]

business is one thing but when you break federal law its another...hope you get what you deserve and will be coming soon to a federal court room near you.

At what point does the pattern of behavior from USAPA qualify them to become defendants in their very own RICO trial?

 

[luvthe9]

At what point does the pattern of behavior from USAPA qualify them to become defendants in their very own RICO trial?

At what point does the pattern of behavior from the West get them involved in their own RICO suit?

 

[nic4us]

As soon as Doug figures out who and when to merge? You all are so clueless. Nobody wants to, or can merge with this hulk. You have helped Doug fail, with the labor issues. Keep trying to steal everything you can. It is going to cost you your career. Doug can merge with no one. You cannot work with us. The entire deal is stuck, mired in lawsuits, and union dispute. The worst ever attempted merger, all spoiled by a greed laden group of pilots from the west. This is stuck forever unless Parker offers a minimum of 200/hr for a narrowbody pilot. And until the west agrees to get real. They will not, and hopefully they will be spun off at all possible as they are a problem. Keep hanging everyone out with your greed. Hopefully you will become enough of an obstacle to all involved that you will be spun into Republic.

You are absolutely correct. The West cannot work with a group of people who are untrustworthy, unethical and lacking any pricipled behavior. Go ahead and break some more of your contractual obligations on your illegal spree of attempted theft, and malicious behavior. The totals dollars are climbing in the damages phase for the usapa convicts.

Greed laden pilots from the West? Now there is a laugh. The east reneges on its deal, walks out of negotiations, cries like a baby, attacks the company and the West at every opportunity, and it is the greed laden West causing all the commotion?

Frankly, Republic is starting to sound good if it means getting rid of the scam scum of usapa and company, who by the way make less money for similar equiptment than Republic.

 

[luvthe9]

Well at least your Man enough to finally admit what we already knew. You're the first one I've seen. In almost ANY other circumstance I could respect this tactic. The real problem is what you're describing is patently illegal and discriminatory. You cannot threaten to terminate a West pilots career by demanding payment for the clearly defined behavior you have outlined above. It's called extortion. USAPA has a very clearly defined DUTY TO FAIRLY REPRESENT all pilots. If you stayed ALPA, this would have worked for you. By Forming USAPA and stripping the West of all REAL, (not phony, easily ignored) representation, the East pilots moved from a position of being able to protect their perceived interests to a point where there WAS NO MORE "East or West". That's what screwed you and that's why this Nic. Award will eventually...read sooner rather than later...be implemented by Judicial means. Wake touched on it and at the time, decided against it.

The East pilots will not be allowed to dictate the terms much longer. I really wish the East would have moved off of DOH and read the tea leaves a little better. They probably could have done better than the Nic if some forward thinking, rational minds had been involved. Instead it was All or nothing, winner take all, take no prisoners. That attitude has completely failed the East and the craziest thing of all, is that type of behavior was amplified by orders of magnitude as soon as USAPA showed up. This B.S. Does not work!!! Hopefully some adult supervision will eventually show up over there.

Metro, how long can ALPA justify you sitting at your desk sucking down FPL from DAL and writing the ridiculous stuff you put out there? Really, as far as disclosure goes, you really need to be honest with the ALPA dues paying members and justify the serious cash you take in, holidays off, weekends off, no flying, no thunderstorms, no reality to put this out. Meanwhile, the guys at Wisconsin flying the 50 seaters day in day out through all the bad stuff pay dues to give you your 175 plus deal. All for the message board. You need to apply to the SEC. They pay more for checking out some really demented websites, than you deal with. Check it out. Meanwhile, go have another cocktail hour in Herndon and bill it to the rest of the regional pilots who fund your escapade. Wha† a deal!!!

 

[Metroyet]

ALPA National BS It is all over for ALPA. DOA GONE Thank God for the death of ALPA Why don't you spend your ALPA dues intake on another cause instead of this dead horse? You don't even work here by your own admission. Try to get some flight schools into ALPA, you are running out of others. How can you take the dues from honest, hard working regional pilots, and spend your time here. You should be ashamed of yourself.

ALPA is alive, well and thriving. You are correct. I don't work for US Airways but that hardly means I don't get what's going on. I have no interest in or concern for, ALPA or their dues money. If ALPA ever returns US Airways it probably won't be for decades. Certainly not while the pudgy mustachioed coward is still driving the ship. My only interest in this debacle is to get a front row seat at the viewing of USAPAs total, complete, and final destruction...which is coming soon. I'm a proud internet "trash talker" and it gives me endless pleasure to know how much the truth gets under the skin of you and your "kind". Aiding the death of USAPA is a sporting pass-time that is enjoyable and easily done from the road. I find it exquisitely entertaining to shine the bright light of truth on the non-stop lies, misdirection, and filth that emanates daily from your fake union.

Thanks for all the laughs. It's truly inspiring to see how un-apologetically Easties create their own reality entirely severed from any form of fact, or rational observation. Keep up the good work Baghdad Bob.

 

[luvthe9]

ALPA is alive, well and thriving. You are correct. I don't work for US Airways but that hardly means I don't get what's going on. I have no interest in or concern for, ALPA or their dues money. If ALPA ever returns US Airways it probably won't be for decades. Certainly not while the pudgy mustachioed coward is still driving the ship. My only interest in this debacle is to get a front row seat at the viewing of USAPAs total, complete, and final destruction...which is coming soon. I'm a proud internet "trash talker" and it gives me endless pleasure to know how much the truth gets under the skin of you and your "kind". Aiding the death of USAPA is a sporting pass-time that is enjoyable and easily done from the road. I find it exquisitely entertaining to shine the bright light of truth on the non-stop lies, misdirection, and filth that emanates daily from your fake union.

Thanks for all the laughs. It's truly inspiring to see how un-apologetically Easties create their own reality entirely severed from any form of fact, or rational observation. Keep up the good work Baghdad Bob.

Sure, no interest, unless the cashflow comes from some poor line F/o at Wisconsin making 28k a yr. Give me a break. We figured you out long ago. Say hi to Prater at the next cocktail hr. You better come out and disclose who pays the nice deal you have. 175 k a yr. sitting at a desk and jacking on websites. No risk, massive reward. A lot of the regional guys know your deal. Belly up to the bar, after all, someone ELSE is paying............ ALPA working for ME!

 

[flybynite]

Okay...here's an idea.......

Have you guys and gals thought about having your pay scale based on years of service????

Get away from the equipment issue......just years of service with the company???

 

[cleardirect]

Okay...here's an idea.......

Have you guys and gals thought about having your pay scale based on years of service????

Get away from the equipment issue......just years of service with the company???

It has been discussed several times. Of course the east wants some 30-40 year top of scale with the 10-15 years pay scale down at commuter wages so they can shove the big money where they are.

What is a practical top scale? 10 -12- 15 -20-25 years?

 

[Metroyet]

Sure, no interest, unless the cashflow comes from some poor line F/o at Wisconsin making 28k a yr. Give me a break. We figured you out long ago. Say hi to Prater at the next cocktail hr. You better come out and disclose who pays the nice deal you have. 175 k a yr. sitting at a desk and jacking on websites. No risk, massive reward. A lot of the regional guys know your deal. Belly up to the bar, after all, someone ELSE is paying............ ALPA working for ME!

Exhibit A...titled "Creating Your Own Reality"

Thanks again. You guys are the gift that keeps on giving...like herpes. Why the sudden altruism for Wisconsin Co-pilots? Don't you feel worse for your own 190 F.O.s who you are holding hostage at poverty wages with NO HOPE of relief? You're off on the 175k a year comment, with profit sharing it's more like 215k/yr. I can afford my own "specialty" websites thank you very much. I've paid ALPA plenty over the years, never received a dime. I think I got a free sandwich once years ago at a base meeting but that's it.

I'm going to send Leonidas another check tomorrow. In the memo line I'll write, "on behalf of luvthe9".

 

[OTTER574]

As soon as Doug actually figures out who and when to merge with another carrier, the east folk's plan of seperate ops will be gone like a prom dress.

The only list you will be able to use is the Nic. Period. With no additional conditions or restrictions, either.

Your unethical, slimy tactics are despised by a neutral arbitrator, a federal judge, a jury of our peers, the 9th circuit court of appeals, every other major airline in this country, the general population and the west pilots. You will be forced to pay dearly, and soon.

boy, most know you don't want to mix booze with meds.

 

[OTTER574]

Sure, no interest, unless the cashflow comes from some poor line F/o at Wisconsin making 28k a yr. Give me a break. We figured you out long ago. Say hi to Prater at the next cocktail hr. You better come out and disclose who pays the nice deal you have. 175 k a yr. sitting at a desk and jacking on websites. No risk, massive reward. A lot of the regional guys know your deal. Belly up to the bar, after all, someone ELSE is paying............ ALPA working for ME!

What so called major airline is making those same wages on the E190 that was suppose to replace the B737 mainline? It begins with a "U" and ends in a "S."

 

[luvthe9]

Exhibit A...titled "Creating Your Own Reality"

Thanks again. You guys are the gift that keeps on giving...like herpes. Why the sudden altruism for Wisconsin Co-pilots? Don't you feel worse for your own 190 F.O.s who you are holding hostage at poverty wages with NO HOPE of relief? You're off on the 175k a year comment, with profit sharing it's more like 215k/yr. I can afford my own "specialty" websites thank you very much. I've paid ALPA plenty over the years, never received a dime. I think I got a free sandwich once years ago at a base meeting but that's it.

I'm going to send Leonidas another check tomorrow. In the memo line I'll write, "on behalf of luvthe9".

Absolutely, write that check. Remember, the braintrust of the Army of Lightweights just got canned off the board today. So spend judiciously.He was incredibly brilliant with his racist comments about Mexicans. Go ahead, we love you guys spending all your free cash flow on lawyers, and stupid ones at that. When you brave the 495 traffic tomorrow on your way to Herndon, remember to look up at the regional drivers out of Reagan and Dulles. Remember who pays those big paychecks. Hope you had a nice weekend off. Must be nice. No weather, no sloppy runways, no threats. Just another buffet at Herndon, followed by cocktails at night. Day in, day out. Altruism for Wisconsin? Just justice i'm interested in. Just keeping tabs on a guy sucking the life out of the line driver so he can pad his own lifestyle. No risk, just massive reward. All for the GOD= ALPA. No interest in this, not a pilot. Keep saying it, maybe someone will believe you.