US Pilots Labor Thread 1/21 to 1/27

[fatherabraham]

Past experience tells me that is going to be a tough proposition.

FF,

After watching a few DP/crew meet videos i have to totally agree and add that whatever the outcome I think West/east pilot relations will be severely hampered for 10+ years.
FA

 

[cactusboy53]

Very insightful, I did not know the NTSB loaned money, I was under the assumption that they investigated transportation accidents. Thank you america west pilot for educating us.

Oooh you got me buddy! ATSB was the intent. I've got lot's of acronyms flying by right now, as I'm in the school house (FMC, PMC, ....ASAP, PDQ,). I had the right term, it was just resting in another portion of my frontal lobe.

If that's my only mistake in my briefing, then I would say I did quite well overall.

Remember, "The Name has changed, but the Obligation remains the same." 😛h34r:

 

[PA18]

Doug negotated LOA 93, in which we ended up with less the company's original offer.

He's a real genius.

Many of us remember the real story of how Garland and other MEC members really hung our negotiating members out on a limb by their made public "get a contract any contract" statements.

Both of these statements have merit.

However, those on the Mowery bandwagon -- and the anti-Cleary bandwagon -- may want to do a bit of research as to which candidate is reported to have been the author, or at least a supporter, of the company's now-proposed 99-hour to 108-hour pay month.

How many furloughed pilots -- especially West furloughed pilots -- will that proposal keep on the street indefinitely?

It was the blind hatred of one side of another -- i.e. the former Piedmont pilots of the PIT and PHL reps -- that contributed to the worst major airline contract in ALPA history. ("Let My Daddy Vote".)

Parker, Hemenway, and Glass are banking on it happening again.

 

[nostradamus]

I've got lot's of acronyms flying by right now, as I'm in the school house (FMC, PMC, ....ASAP, PDQ,). I had the right term, it was just resting in another portion of my frontal lobe.

Another victim of society. Excuses are like roses on Valentines day, everyone has one and .........................

 

[nostradamus]

What ads in the local papers are you referring? Usapa is the only one that wasted money on an ad.

Is this the ad in the USA today that you are referring to sir? Do you consider this a waste of money sir?

US Airways pilots: We're pressured to cut fuel

 

[sharktooth]

Doug negotated LOA 93, in which we ended up with less the company's original offer.

I know it is really hard for someone who cannot figure out why he has so many babies and therefore ends up in bankruptcy to understand why your comment has no basis in reality.

Who negotiated LOA 93? Please name all parties and provide a timeline of when they participated.

As I recall, you were one of the ones setting their hair on fire, early on, running around trying to justify your position, to bolster your selfish case for personal bankruptcy, perhaps?

It seems to me that "doug" actually mitigated a lot of the "givebacks" people like you were willing to sacrifice in their moment of self-immolation. It is unfortunate the rational amongst us did not depart rationality and allow those 57% to immolate themselves.

 

[sharktooth]

Well missed it by one letter.

Missed it again, I'd say.

 

[traderjake]

Sorry. You just have no clue as to what really transpired.

Was Doug the head of the Negotiating Committee?

Is LOA 93 less than the company's initial offer?

Did the Negotiating Committe have the support of the majority of pilots?

Please enlighten me as to where I'm wrong.

 

[Phoenix]

Was Doug the head of the Negotiating Committee?

Did the Negotiating Committe have the support of the majority of pilots?

We'll mark that down as an endorsement?

p.s. ALPA doesn't allow the NC to pass things out for ratification, that would be the MECs job, unless of course its the termination of the pension. (But heck maybe the MEC saved the pilots the embarrassment of voting away their own pension. After all, the let my daddy vote mania was pretty widespread and whipped up by the ALPA experts.)

 

[kubotapilot]

MDA pilots were furloughed, and are included in the Nic list where they belong.

Hi Mr. Nic,

This quote WILL come back to haunt you.

Regardless of how Addington etc... are resolved, and regardless of the time line of these cases, the MDA / Furlough question will also be decided in Federal Court and the outcome WILL effect your precious NIC lottery.

The evidence that will be presented in court during the MDA case will come down on ALPA like a mudslide and the NIC reward will be a casualty. Yes, the West group may still prevail, but that will happen with a NEW ARBITRATION that utilizes the CORRECT set of pilot lists.

Please cease from making statements about the furlough status of the MDA brothers because you do not know ANYTHING factual about their case. I guess in your mind the more you make these statements the more you feel they are the truth, however you will find out in due time.

You and several others here continue pounding your chests regarding the Nic reward and binding arbitration etc... and I most definitely AGREE, binding arbitration is binding and legal, but NOT when the arbitration itself was based on FAULTY information. You are all, east and west, wasting your breath here (myself included !) as this will all be a mute point. We will all re-arbitrate, and finally will either come together as a solid group, or continue ad-infinitum as separate ops until the next merger.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Hi Mr. Nic,

This quote WILL come back to haunt you.

Regardless of how Addington etc... are resolved, and regardless of the time line of these cases, the MDA / Furlough question will also be decided in Federal Court and the outcome WILL effect your precious NIC lottery.

The evidence that will be presented in court during the MDA case will come down on ALPA like a mudslide and the NIC reward will be a casualty. Yes, the West group may still prevail, but that will happen with a NEW ARBITRATION that utilizes the CORRECT set of pilot lists.

Please cease from making statements about the furlough status of the MDA brothers because you do not know ANYTHING factual about their case. I guess in your mind the more you make these statements the more you feel they are the truth, however you will find out in due time.

You and several others here continue pounding your chests regarding the Nic reward and binding arbitration etc... and I most definitely AGREE, binding arbitration is binding and legal, but NOT when the arbitration itself was based on FAULTY information. You are all, east and west, wasting your breath here (myself included !) as this will all be a mute point. We will all re-arbitrate, and finally will either come together as a solid group, or continue ad-infinitum as separate ops until the next merger.

Great post based on facts. It seems to me that the West pilots are whistling past the graveyard. As you wrote that if they say the wrong things often enough, then those things become "the truth".........their "truth".

The MDA pilots are not often mentioned on this forum. Could that be because they are the 800 pound gorilla in the room? It will be rich when the 800 pound chicken eggs wind up on the West face.

UU

 

[Freighterguynow]

Regardless of how Addington etc... are resolved, and regardless of the time line of these cases, the MDA / Furlough question will also be decided in Federal Court and the outcome WILL effect your precious NIC lottery.

What is the timeline?

 

[tazz]

Hi Mr. Nic,

This quote WILL come back to haunt you.

Please cease from making statements about the furlough status of the MDA brothers because you do not know ANYTHING factual about their case. I guess in your mind the more you make these statements the more you feel they are the truth, however you will find out in due time.

Please enlighten us by answering two simple questions...

1. Did the MDA pilots receive furlough notices from mainline prior to going to work at MDA?

2. Did those same pilots return to mainline in response to a furlough recall notice?

Yes or no answers will suffice.

 

[Crzipilot]

Was MDA a seperate airline, or was it mainline???

Simple answer will suffice.....

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Please enlighten us by answering two simple questions...

1. Did the MDA pilots receive furlough notices from mainline prior to going to work at MDA?

2. Did those same pilots return to mainline in response to a furlough recall notice?

Yes or no answers will suffice.

Their furlough severance pay ended when they accepted a position at MDA, while their fellow pilots at MESA, PSA, etc. received both their proper length of furlough pay and pay from the respective carriers they accepted work at. Pilots who went to MESA, PSA, etc., had to serve out apprentice status in ALPA again and paid no dues as apprentice members while the pilots at MDA paid dues immediately and were full members in their respective councils, and were able to hold office. There are numerous instances where they were treated as employees of Airways by both the company and ALPA vs the other J4J pilots. Alleged misapplication and failure to enforce the mainline contract was the fault of ALPA and the genesis of the MDA DFR suit. While the original items litigated were dismissed as the time limit to file a DFR is 6 months and the mistake was made in expecting ALPA to fix the problem and that period was allowed to lapse, the case was amended when their status was inaccurately shown during the ALPA merger process and the new DFR items took place. The case continues on with subsequent claims of damage and the obvious is that ALPA is alleged to have allowed a fraudulent list to be used in the process because to do otherwise would have prejudiced their legal case. Someone who is involved could probably give you the entire laundry list but clearly the dynamic changed when the Potomac Air certificate was shutdown and the plan to operate MDA as a subsidiary like Northwest/Compass ended and the company elected to place the aircraft on the mainline. The lawyer litigating this has had success against ALPA. He persued and forced a settlement between ALPA and RJDC which reuired ALPA to amend its policy manual to require in family codes share partners(i.e., Continental/Colgan/Xjet) to reach a consensus on scope or the President can elect not to sign the contract and force the parties to reconcile their differences. The effects of this have not been felt yet but will soon be tested when Continental and CAL ALPA negotiate on scope. Within ALPA, a respective pilot group no longer has sole control to determine its covered work.