US Pilots Labor Thread 1/21 to 1/27

[Crzipilot]

Say Nic is the list. Simple question: How are you going to get it implemented?

 

[cleardirect]

Say Nic is the list. Simple question: How are you going to get it implemented?

The judge may have some ideas about that.

If Nicolau is the list. How is usapa going to get a contract? Will they dissolve? Will they be replaced? Will they finally admit that the experiment failed? Explain to the members that they tried but could not do it? Can usapa survive with the Nicolau list in place?

 

[Crzipilot]

so your telling me a judge can enforce a contract upon me, stipulating the terms of my employment??
Wouldn't that be close to 1 step above slavery or indentured servitude?

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Found "invalid" by whom?

A judge, Airways, ALPA if they settle.

Any or all of the above, time will tell.

With the precedent set by Nic. and the DAL/NWA arbitration, do you really expect any different ruling? The company already paid 600k for the nic. list. Whose going to pay for another Arbitration and how exactly do you plan on keeping another Federal Lawsuit away from that attempt?

There may be no arbitration as USAPA merger policy is the only thing to fall back on, or an arbitration may occur, or it may be decided by a court, again time will tell. As far as the company is concerned, didn't your CEO tell you that financially how the list is constructed has no impact on them. What's 600k to a 400 million loss on fuel hedges?

It's over. Nic. is the List. It was a result of an agreed upon INCLUSIVE legal due process. In Polar opposite to USAPAs DOH fantasy list.

Are you currently working under the Nic list? Reality should be informing you that it is not over but very much unresolved.

 

[Metroyet]

Are you currently working under the Nic list? Reality should be informing you that it is not over but very much unresolved.

A contract is unresolved. The list, like it or not, is a very real tangible item that currently resides in HQ in Tempe.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

A contract is unresolved. The list, like it or not, is a very real tangible item that currently resides in HQ in Tempe.

They have ALPA's list/bargaining position, which appears to have been corrupted in violation of their C & BL's. They have USAPA's list/bargaining position which is consistent with their C & BL's. Airways stated who they legally are required to negotiate with.

 

[tazz]

Their furlough severance pay ended when they accepted a position at MDA, while their fellow pilots at MESA, PSA, etc. received both their proper length of furlough pay and pay from the respective carriers they accepted work at. Pilots who went to MESA, PSA, etc., had to serve out apprentice status in ALPA again and paid no dues as apprentice members while the pilots at MDA paid dues immediately and were full members in their respective councils, and were able to hold office. There are numerous instances where they were treated as employees of Airways by both the company and ALPA vs the other J4J pilots. Alleged misapplication and failure to enforce the mainline contract was the fault of ALPA and the genesis of the MDA DFR suit. While the original items litigated were dismissed as the time limit to file a DFR is 6 months and the mistake was made in expecting ALPA to fix the problem and that period was allowed to lapse, the case was amended when their status was inaccurately shown during the ALPA merger process and the new DFR items took place. The case continues on with subsequent claims of damage and the obvious is that ALPA is alleged to have allowed a fraudulent list to be used in the process because to do otherwise would have prejudiced their legal case. Someone who is involved could probably give you the entire laundry list but clearly the dynamic changed when the Potomac Air certificate was shutdown and the plan to operate MDA as a subsidiary like Northwest/Compass ended and the company elected to place the aircraft on the mainline. The lawyer litigating this has had success against ALPA. He persued and forced a settlement between ALPA and RJDC which reuired ALPA to amend its policy manual to require in family codes share partners(i.e., Continental/Colgan/Xjet) to reach a consensus on scope or the President can elect not to sign the contract and force the parties to reconcile their differences. The effects of this have not been felt yet but will soon be tested when Continental and CAL ALPA negotiate on scope. Within ALPA, a respective pilot group no longer has sole control to determine its covered work.

RTFQ

ATFQ

yes or no will suffice.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

RTFQ

ATFQ

yes or no will suffice.

Asking questions in a way to limit information or in a way designed to get only the answers you want begs the question of who you are trying to convince.

A judge will provide the answers you seek.

 

[luvn737s]

so your telling me a judge can enforce a contract upon me, stipulating the terms of my employment??
Wouldn't that be close to 1 step above slavery or indentured servitude?

Why couldn't the judge impose the nic list on a "joint contract "(which would be the east contract with side letter provisions for retaining west status quo in terms of pay, benefits, etc.) with a term of 1 day, immediately allowing USAPA to begin negotiating a new contract? USAPA could finish up any open sections and present the contract to the members for ratification. This would provide the least pain and eliminate any incentive for foot dragging on USAPA's part.

I guess what I'm asking is why can't Judge Wake do what Prater should have?

 

[tazz]

Asking questions in a way to limit information or in a way designed to get only the answers you want begs the question of who you are trying to convince.

A judge will provide the answers you seek.

Answering everything but the question asked has the same effect. I am just trying to get a straight answer to a VERY simple question. Should know better by now.

Regarding the judge:
Yes he will. Looking forward to it.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Answering everything but the question asked has the same effect. I am just trying to get a straight answer to a VERY simple question. Should know better by now.

Regarding the judge:
Yes he will. Looking forward to it.

Hard to receive a proper recall notice if the pilot was covered by the contract and ALPA was derelict in its duty of enforcing the contract. Pretty germane to the question.

It should be regarding the judges, because more than one will be weighing in and that is providing no appellate process is involved.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I was hired by America West on July 5, 1989, and have flown the DHC-8 (Dash-8) and the Airbus.

Soooooo - a guy willing to buy $20,000 in company stock just to fly a Dash 8 is going to be heading up the asylum?

Great.

 

[cleardirect]

so your telling me a judge can enforce a contract upon me, stipulating the terms of my employment??
Wouldn't that be close to 1 step above slavery or indentured servitude?

The judge is not forcing a contract on you. What the judge is being asked to do is enforce a bargain made by you and the other east pilots. When you and the other east pilots entered into binding arbitration. The west is asking nothing more then what we agreed to. The result of arbitration.

The federal government dictates terms of employment all the time. The age 60/65 rule. Flight time limitations ect. Both companies had ATSB loans. Those loans had labor cost restrictions in them. This is no different, other then the pilots agreed this time to the way it would be decided. With the loans the ATSB told us what they would be.

No slavery involved. You are not required to work for US Airways. The company does not own you or hold you here. If you decide that the terms are not to your liking you may leave at any time. Just as did many of the US Airways pilots left voluntarily to find employment elsewhere.

This is something that USAPA, Seham should have been more up front about. We are starting to hear a whisper of it now. USAPA can not, could not guarantee that they could get rid of the Nicolau list. Yes I believe that list will be part of any contract brought to this pilot group.

You see there are certain things that have to be in a contract no matter who negotiates it. We are bound by the RLA rules. Those are in there. We are bound by FAA rules those are written into any contract. The Nicolau will be written into the contract. USAPA can negotiate from there as long as it is fair to all pilots.

USAPA could not negotiate 10 hour flight days or 40 hours in 7 days. Some things are beyond negotiating.

 

[nic4us]

Say Nic is the list. Simple question: How are you going to get it implemented?

Simple answere: abide by the ruling.

 

[kubotapilot]

What was/is the MDA ATC callsign?

Answer : USAIR