US Pilots Labor Thread 1/21 to 1/27

[Phoenix]

Many of us remember the real story of how Garland and other MEC members really hung our negotiating members out on a limb by their made public "get a contract any contract" statements.

Who can forget representatives famed for service to ALPA instead of their constituents? :mellow:

 

[cleardirect]

Ok mate. Are you suggesting that the judge is now negotiating or attempting to intervene on ongoing negotiations on your west behalf? Have you lost your tonkie? He isn't a AWA negotiator, he can't direct or dictate negotiations...he can only correct perceived infractions after they appear to have occured....period. I realize you are desperate for allies (as demonstrated by your repeated ads in local news rags) but this is a stretch....even for a die-hard like you.

Get a grope on yourself, pin up your winkie, and get on with it.

Learning some new terms?

No, the judge has no need to negotiate anything. The list has already been done. The judge will only enforce an agreement that was made.

What ads in the local papers are you referring? Usapa is the only one that wasted money on an ad. Beside no need for allies. The judge and rule of law is the only thing of importance. Public opinion is irrelevant.

 

[nic4us]

lost relitive seniority? you would have lost all your seniority without this merger...two low yield soft market hubs in southwests back yard with fuel at 150 a bar. i woulda bet the over under on chapter 7 liquidation july of 08.... bruce lakefield is the one that saved us not this pos management. he came in with risky money that worked. i dont want your job! you want mine... take a step back brother. That Nic awarded is so uckedf up from top to bottom. the proper snap shot would have include the midatlatic division at usairways which would have included the bottom 1800 on the east list. if your less then 45 you will rocket in seniority in the next 10 years ... the west will own the airline. so so short sighted.

I am not under 45, every FO I have flown with the last two months has been older than me.

Nic is fair and heading our way.

Bruce Lakefield said himself, when refering to the merger in which America West aquired USairways," this is by far the best deal we are going to get." Doug Parker has said you were 5 days from liquidation.

MDA pilots were furloughed, and are included in the Nic list where they belong.

You say you do not want my job, yet you propose a scheme in which furloughed pilots with little length of service leepfrog active pilots with more LOS. Bradford has said he would want to see all PHX and LAS pilots furloughed prior to any East pilots.

The West already owns the Airline, bought it back in 2005.

So brother, you take a step back and try to realize the West will not pay for your prior misfortune.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Doug negotated LOA 93, in which we ended up with less the company's original offer.

He's a real genius.

He wasn't smart enough to know that the majority did not support his strategy.

Measured against the mentality of the average USAPA supporter he probably is the cream of the crop.

Sorry. You just have no clue as to what really transpired.

 

[Crzipilot]

On another note. Can you believe the BS of the benefits over here???? It's amazing, those outsourced companies that ML has looked down upon for years (not mesa and such) But out wholly owned counter parts, Have an amazingly better portfolio of benefits than ML does???? The health insurance is better, the SHORT TERM DISABILITY, the PAID FOR LTD.....etc etc.

So explain to me....how or why it's been allowed to sink so low. I mean, Wholly Owned means USAirways owns them right? So essentially the bills are paid out of the same area. And they have better insurance? Wow..... Med costs have TRIPLED....and caremark is such a sleezy incompentant provider, it's stupid. When these give backs were negotiated, were they done by individuals that had insurance options outside of the airline???

Oh well....back to the daily rant....

 

[cactusboy53]

I am not under 45, every FO I have flown with the last two months has been older than me.

Nic is fair and heading our way.

Bruce Lakefield said himself, when refering to the merger in which America West aquired USairways," this is by far the best deal we are going to get." Doug Parker has said you were 5 days from liquidation.

MDA pilots were furloughed, and are included in the Nic list where they belong.

You say you do not want my job, yet you propose a scheme in which furloughed pilots with little length of service leepfrog active pilots with more LOS. Bradford has said he would want to see all PHX and LAS pilots furloughed prior to any East pilots.

The West already owns the Airline, bought it back in 2005.

So brother, you take a step back and try to realize the West will not pay for your prior misfortune.

You're my new favorite captain, and yes I may be older than you. Thank you for the continued education process. It may not help those that refuse to read the historic truth, arbitration documents, and related material....but what the heck!

 

[cactusboy53]

lost relative seniority? you would have lost all your seniority without this merger...two low yield soft market hubs in southwests back yard with fuel at 150 a bar. i woulda bet the over under on chapter 7 liquidation july of 08.... bruce lakefield is the one that saved us not this pos management. he came in with risky money that worked. i dont want your job! you want mine... take a step back brother. That Nic awarded is so uckedf up from top to bottom. the proper snap shot would have include the midatlatic division at usairways which would have included the bottom 1800 on the east list. if your less then 45 you will rocket in seniority in the next 10 years ... the west will own the airline. so so short sighted.

Yea, you're probably right......Let's see.......Getting new Airbus A320/319, new Hawaii service, two new hire classes (That would be the FIRST MAJOR AIRLINE TO DO THAT AFTER the 9/11 attack!) a month, 6.5 year upgrades, making money quarter after quarter. Yea, America West Airline (oh boy, does it ever feel good to say that!) wasn't as near to death's door as you might infer.

I don't know what it is that you are smokin' dude, but you had better share!

I know that this verbal volley goes no where, but really....have EVER bothered to look into who was nearly out of business, who was making money, who got financing, who made the NTSB Loan payments whole, what the ALPA Merger Policy states, what Final & Binding Arbitration really means, took the time to read the manuscripts pertaining to the arbitration process.....or are you just as charter member of the angry FO Club??

PS If you are going to "bet", you will be held to your word (again).
PSS The use of captials & spell check is not require, but encouraged.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

I am not under 45, every FO I have flown with the last two months has been older than me.

Nic is fair and heading our way.

Bruce Lakefield said himself, when refering to the merger in which America West aquired USairways," this is by far the best deal we are going to get." Doug Parker has said you were 5 days from liquidation.

MDA pilots were furloughed, and are included in the Nic list where they belong.

You say you do not want my job, yet you propose a scheme in which furloughed pilots with little length of service leepfrog active pilots with more LOS. Bradford has said he would want to see all PHX and LAS pilots furloughed prior to any East pilots.

The West already owns the Airline, bought it back in 2005.

So brother, you take a step back and try to realize the West will not pay for your prior misfortune.

Nic is not fair and only time will tell in regards to seniority.

Bruce Lakefield raised the money for the merger and it was the US Airways network and the $2 billion in wage concessions by the unions that investors bought into.

MDA pilots were not furloughed but active pilots and any confusion is due to a lack of contract enforcement by ALPA. Mid Atlantic ceased to exist with the Potomac Air certificate and all provisions of the mainline contract should have been enforced when the aircraft were added to US Airways. The list used during the merger process was not produced by the company and in fact the certified East list provided by the company showed them as active. There was no objection by ALPA because to do so would have been an admission of the guilt and prejudiced the DFR case ALPA was currently involved. A case that is working its way through the court system.

Furloughed pilots sacrificed as much for the preservation of Airways just as the pilots who lost their pension. The pilots of Airways deemed their longevity their greatest tangible asset. A lifetime recall for furloughed pilots meant that their sacrifice for scope relief and the outsourcing of two hundred aircraft would be balanced by maintaining their right to inherit those jobs saves just as though who gave up pension, pay, and work rules. Pension, pay, and work rules were seen as secondary to longevity as the greatest tangible asset, a fact that ALPA and its mighty EF & A advisers sold to the pilot group. "The sacrifices will be preserving the future and future benefits of your investments for yourself."It is absurd that someone else reap the benefits of others sacrifices but this is the age of the mush head generation that wants everything handed to them.

The West didn't by anything. You are just pilots. :blink: As for America West, it didn't have two nickels to rub together and wasn't going to be able to service its own debt and was going to have to rely on bankruptcy. Outside investors arranged by Bruce Lakefield bought into Airways which merged with America West. Airways was the surviving company and operating certificate and the one that raised the money and their is a mountain of SEC documents as well as KPMG audit of Airways POR that lays it out.

So you might be the one to step back and realize the east won't let you steal their jobs, their investment, or the fruits of their sacrifice.

To sum up, neener, neener, neener. 🙄

 

[nostradamus]

who made the NTSB Loan payments whole,

Very insightful, I did not know the NTSB loaned money, I was under the assumption that they investigated transportation accidents. Thank you america west pilot for educating us.

 

[Pi brat]

Yea, you're probably right......Let's see.......Getting new Airbus A320/319, new Hawaii service, two new hire classes (That would be the FIRST MAJOR AIRLINE TO DO THAT AFTER the 9/11 attack!) a month, 6.5 year upgrades, making money quarter after quarter. Yea, America West Airline (oh boy, does it ever feel good to say that!) wasn't as near to death's door as you might infer.

I don't know what it is that you are smokin' dude, but you had better share!

I know that this verbal volley goes no where, but really....have EVER bothered to look into who was nearly out of business, who was making money, who got financing, who made the NTSB Loan payments whole, what the ALPA Merger Policy states, what Final & Binding Arbitration really means, took the time to read the manuscripts pertaining to the arbitration process.....or are you just as charter member of the angry FO Club??

PS If you are going to "bet", you will be held to your word (again).
PSS The use of captials & spell check is not require, but encouraged.

To the angry F/O west division member:
-It was the ATSB, not NTSB
-Hawaii service came with the merger
-Both ATSB loans were paid off after the merger, with money the merger brought in, not AWA money.
-US had more cash than AWA

You know, that whole speck in my eye, log in yours thing.

 

[nostradamus]

Learning some new terms?


What ads in the local papers are you referring? Usapa is the only one that wasted money on an ad. Beside no need for allies.

The judge and rule of law is the only thing of importance. Public opinion is irrelevant.

Yes we learned from one of your fellow america west pilots that the NTSB loans money to airlines.

The pilots union representing Usairways pilots, USAPA, had the courage to speak up when the company wanted the final say on how much fuel should be on a Usairways flight, using intimidation attempts, not the Captain.

You are whistling in the dark on this board on a daily basis, you are an embarrassment to professional pilots.

 

[nic4us]

Westpuslot,

Good rebutal, not entirely factually true, but I think what is going on here is we both have different ideas of how things transpired as we saw them from different viewpoints as they occured, and were told differing stories as to what was happening.

I just could not resist hammering away as I warned everyone months ago about my sensitivity to the lotto analogy.

Also on a different topic some time ago people were posting about my screen name. One east poster said there are all these West posters with derogatory names like Nic4us, eastisleast etc. but that no east posters had stooped so low. So my question is exactly what is a Westpuslot and did you know it is an anagram for "Put two less."

 

[cleardirect]

Yes we learned from one of your fellow america west pilots that the NTSB loans money to airlines.

The pilots union representing Usairways pilots, USAPA, had the courage to speak up when the company wanted the final say on how much fuel should be on a Usairways flight, using intimidation attempts, not the Captain.

You are whistling in the dark on this board on a daily basis, you are an embarrassment to professional pilots.

Well missed it by one letter. Oh the embarrassment and shame. Must be a rookie problem I guess. Good thing that you are pitch perfect.

Very soon we will see just who is whistling in the dark.

I did not know that you were the person assigned to determine the standard for the profession. Congratulations. At least you gave me credit for being a pilot. Usually when that insult comes out the accusation is not being a pilot or just a flight attendant.

The frustration must be growing.

 

[Metroyet]

Nic is not fair

In the words of Mis-Fortune Master Mr. Artie Lange...

WWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lemme guess. You're the only one that knows for sure what "fair" is...

 

[Furlough Fodder]

Well I now wonder why I would ever take a recall back to a company with such a poisonous atmosphere. I can only hope that when the judge finally renders a ruling in the DFR suit that the pilots at LCC will put the past few years behind them and begin to move forward as a pilot group together. Past experience tells me that is going to be a tough proposition.