US Pilots Labor Thread 1/21 to 1/27

[GorgeousGeorge]

We have a contract and a T/A. Do you not consider the T/A to be a legal document or a part of the contract?

You say that the T/A describes a �€œprocess that has not yet taken effect�€�. The only part left is implementation of the Nicolau list. Otherwise the rest of the process is finished.

The T/A lists a merger policy. The process was followed. Negotiation, mediation, arbitration. The list was then presented to the company. The company accepted that list. Therefore making the list part of a legal contract. So the list is also in the west and east contract. Just like union dues or crew meals As USAPA said in PHX.

The only thing left is a joint implement. But the process of getting a list is finished. So The union name has changed ...the obligation has not!
USAPA is still contractually obligation to use and implement the Nicolau list.

Arbitration is an obligation.

It was not a legislatively or judicially required arbitration. It wan internal union process to establish a bargaining position. The union has changed and so has the bargaining position to reflect its charter and a court will rule whether that the union has the authority to do so and whether any DFR issues were triggered. Whether the company accepted the list is irrelevant, to date a single contract to bring both groups under one contract is incomplete and either party has the right to changes its position until an agreement is reach and ratified.

 

[cleardirect]

It was not a legislatively or judicially required arbitration. It wan internal union process to establish a bargaining position. The union has changed and so has the bargaining position to reflect its charter and a court will rule whether that the union has the authority to do so and whether any DFR issues were triggered. Whether the company accepted the list is irrelevant, to date a single contract to bring both groups under one contract is incomplete and either party has the right to changes its position until an agreement is reach and ratified.

The bargaining position of the list is brought up all of the time. What exactly was to be bargained and who was the bargaining between?

At the most it was a position between the east/west ALPA and the company. The bargaining was to get the company to accept the Nicolau list.

The company accepted that list. So it is not irrelevant. It is the end of the bargaining phase.

So the bargaining is complete. There is no more “bargaining positionâ€￾ The list is now part of the T/A and both contracts.

Just because the union changed the contracts do not, the T/A does not, the obligations do not. USAPA inherited all of them.

 

[Phoenix]

... It is the end of the bargaining phase.

..

zzzzzzz.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

The company accepted that list. So it is not irrelevant. It is the end of the bargaining phase.

So the bargaining is complete. There is no more “bargaining positionâ€￾ The list is now part of the T/A and both contracts.

The company and the union disagree with you as it obviously not a settled matter. One that your CEO has verbalized numerous times. In fact your old union and old merger attorney does not agree with your either or their would have been no attempts to modify a list alread "accepted" by the company, if it was not a bargaining position that could be modified.

Just because the union changed the contracts do not, the T/A does not, the obligations do not. USAPA inherited all of them.

As any collective bargaining agent USAPA has the legal right to negotiate on its members behalf. Whatever agreement is reached will replace the T/A and the two respective contracts. The contents will be decided in negotiation between the union and the company and ratification by the members.

 

[foreright]

The west pilots are really screwed... the nic award will never be implamented. Its a shame because you REALLY saved the east

 

[cleardirect]

As any collective bargaining agent USAPA has the legal right to negotiate on its members behalf. Whatever agreement is reached will replace the T/A and the two respective contracts. The contents will be decided in negotiation between the union and the company and ratification by the members.

The judge may have something to say about what is in that contract. Something that everyone always leaves out. The union can decide what to negotiate as long as it is fair to all parties. That is why we are in court. For a judge to decide if usapa using it's majority was fair. usapa does not have unlimited power.

He can rule that the arbitration is binding. Any contract will include the Nicolau list. Now usapa is free to negotiate from that point. Again as long as all of the other provisions are fair to the minority.

 

[traderjake]

For what it's worth, I think he is the most knowledgeable, level-headed, even-handed, fair-minded and downright smart person that any union could wish to have in a leadership position. The consummate gentleman, Doug Mowery is the perfect candidate to lead us as USAPA president. Doug is a hard worker and his ethics are impeccable.

Doug negotated LOA 93, in which we ended up with less the company's original offer.

He's a real genius.

He wasn't smart enough to know that the majority did not support his strategy.

Measured against the mentality of the average USAPA supporter he probably is the cream of the crop.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Doug negotated LOA 93, in which we ended up with less the company's original offer.

Many of us remember the real story of how Garland and other MEC members really hung our negotiating members out on a limb by their made public "get a contract any contract" statements.

 

[nic4us]

The west pilots are really screwed... the nic award will never be implamented. Its a shame because you REALLY saved the east

Trust me, we will not make that mistake twice.

Nic will be implemented and because of attitudes like yours it is coming full throttle to an airline near you. No negotiation, no contract slight of hand to dilute it. Full on Nicolau with USAPA paying for the out seniority furloughs, lost wages for the out of seniority displacements, penalties for the hostile work enviroment created by lawsuits and section 19 hearings.

Hope you are on dues check off for the assesments coming your way.

 

[foreright]

Trust me, we will not make that mistake twice.

Nic will be implemented and because of attitudes like yours it is coming full throttle to an airline near you. No negotiation, no contract slight of hand to dilute it. Full on Nicolau with USAPA paying for the out seniority furloughs, lost wages for the out of seniority displacements, penalties for the hostile work enviroment created by lawsuits and section 19 hearings.

Hope you are on dues check off for the assesments coming your way.

you want to wager? i will give you 2:1 on a bet... action?

 

[nic4us]

you want to wager? i will give you 2:1 on a bet... action?

I do not accept wagers from individuals or organizations whose word is no good and have a history of welching on their obligations.

Further, the West is in no mood to enter in to any agreements with these same individuals and organizations. That is why you will see no mitigation of the Nic when implemented.

 

[foreright]

I do not accept wagers from individuals or organizations whose word is no good and have a history of welching on their obligations.

Further, the West is in no mood to enter in to any agreements with these same individuals and organizations. That is why you will see no mitigation of the Nic when implemented.

implemented come on 10 bucks? your so sure of yourself and your lotto tic

 

[des nudo]

The judge may have something to say about what is in that contract. Something that everyone always leaves out. The union can decide what to negotiate as long as it is fair to all parties. That is why we are in court. For a judge to decide if usapa using it's majority was fair. usapa does not have unlimited power.

He can rule that the arbitration is binding. Any contract will include the Nicolau list. Now usapa is free to negotiate from that point. Again as long as all of the other provisions are fair to the minority.

Ok mate. Are you suggesting that the judge is now negotiating or attempting to intervene on ongoing negotiations on your west behalf? Have you lost your tonkie? He isn't a AWA negotiator, he can't direct or dictate negotiations...he can only correct perceived infractions after they appear to have occured....period. I realize you are desperate for allies (as demonstrated by your repeated ads in local news rags) but this is a stretch....even for a die-hard like you.

Get a grope on yourself, pin up your winkie, and get on with it.

 

[nic4us]

implemented come on 10 bucks? your so sure of yourself and your lotto tic

lotto tic?

Are you refering to the Nicolau decision in which I lost relative seniority, and a number of years at very high seniority.

Or are you refering to the fact that USAPA's DOH theft plan is a million to one shot.

 

[foreright]

lotto tic?

Are you refering to the Nicolau decision in which I lost relative seniority, and a number of years at very high seniority.

Or are you refering to the fact that USAPA's DOH theft plan is a million to one shot.

lost relitive seniority? you would have lost all your seniority without this merger...two low yield soft market hubs in southwests back yard with fuel at 150 a bar. i woulda bet the over under on chapter 7 liquidation july of 08.... bruce lakefield is the one that saved us not this pos management. he came in with risky money that worked. i dont want your job! you want mine... take a step back brother. That Nic awarded is so uckedf up from top to bottom. the proper snap shot would have include the midatlatic division at usairways which would have included the bottom 1800 on the east list. if your less then 45 you will rocket in seniority in the next 10 years ... the west will own the airline. so so short sighted.