US Pilots Labor Discussion

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[Pi brat]

I am confused. You say you are a 767captain. You say it is not about the money but you want a raise. You say it is about time off and a new contract would give you more time off with better work rules and more vacation time. But you do not want the Nicolau. You do understand at this point it is one or the other Nicolau or a new contract?

What do you want? What are you holding out for?

Bob has explained his situation clearl y before. You need to pay attention. You think you have us all pegged, you don't.

 

[Metroyet]

Bob has explained his situation clearl y before. You need to pay attention. You think you have us all pegged, you don't.

You actively support a fake union that illegally terrorizes the minority at every single opportunity to do so. The group you champion extorts money, threatens, lies, and intentionally....relentlessly attempts to scare the traveling public away from their airline because of their ridiculous claims that there is a "safety" problem. All in a failed effort to force the company to accept an illegal seniority list. USAPA and it's scab supporters are a pathetic scum of the Earth.

You're wrong. I do have all of you USAPA supporters pegged. You're Garbage.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You actively support a fake union that illegally terrorizes the minority at every single opportunity to do so. The group you champion extorts money, threatens, lies, and intentionally....relentlessly attempts to scare the traveling public away from their airline because of their ridiculous claims that there is a "safety" problem. All in a failed effort to force the company to accept an illegal seniority list. USAPA and it's scab supporters are a pathetic scum of the Earth.

You're wrong. I do have all of you USAPA supporters pegged. You're Garbage.

This is constructive....especially from someone that isn't even a pilot.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Perhaps it’s because a non-NIC contract would require Management collusion with USAPA to breach the Transition Agreement and put Management squarely in the target of an AOL/west pilot hybrid DFR lawsuit. Since that is never going to happen, the only way for USAPA to get a non-NIC JCBA is if a court or the NMB somehow indemnifies Management from collusion liability. That too isn’t likely to happen, so NIC is the only valid and sensible way of attaining a JCBA.

USAPA can take out all the newspaper ads and send all the letters it wants to Management or the media and it still won’t result in a new JCBA. As much as people want to claim Management is intentionally stalling contract negotiations, the truth of the matter is that USAPA and its east supporters are solely to blame for the lack of a contract or even closing out other sections of the CBA. If USAPA accepted the NIC and began to negotiate in good faith on the other sections of the contract, then a Tentative Agreement isn’t just possible, it could be attained in a relatively short timeframe. The current USAPA strategy has virtually no chance of producing a JCBA.

It's interesting how the term "collusion"seems to continually "pop-up" in the new vernacular of labor discussions. It's DOH. Even Parker recognizes all the other labor unions went that way. BTW, the Latest PHX crew news won't help your case in "DFR II".

Good luck with your flawed legal arguments.

 

[767one]

Not sure why some think that taking the NIC will get us a contract. It has nothing to do with what the company is willing to pay us. The company will stall for as long as they can. They may say that employee parking is too expensive, but one excuse to avoid standard wages is as good as another.

Nevergiveup,

I agree with you about the contract. The company will stall as long as they can and the only thing that would possibly speed things up is if they needed a contract to get the next deal or of something was to cause the stats to drop with a corresponding drop in bonuses.

Regards,

Bob

 

[CallawayGolf]

It's interesting how the term "collusion"seems to continually "pop-up" in the new vernacular of labor discussions. It's DOH. Even Parker recognizes all the other labor unions went that way. BTW, the Latest PHX crew news won't help your case in "DFR II".

Good luck with your flawed legal arguments.

It’s not my legal argument (flawed or spot on), it is the legal position held by Management as presented to Judge Silver by their litigation attorney Robert Siegel at the February 9th DJ hearing:

There are cases which hold that a carrier can be, in certain factual circumstances, held liable as facilitating, aiding, abetting, or colluding with the union in the adoption and agreeing to an illegal contract term

(Siegel, pg 12)

We're fully aware that the facts that were presented caused a jury to find that the proposal made by the union breaches its duty of fair representation

(Siegel, pg 13)

On the seniority issue, the company has to tell the union whether or not it will or will not amend the transition agreement and acquiesce to a non-Nicolau seniority list. We have to answer that question and we don't know -- Your Honor, the only thought I want to emphasize is the reason we filed is because we don't know whether that proposal is legal or not. We're concerned because we are aware of a jury verdict that found it to be illegal.

(Siegel, pg 22)

In order to move forward USAPA needs to alleviate Management’s legal concerns over section 22 and USAPA’s potentially illegal non-NIC seniority list. Instead of helping to resolve the open legal question, USAPA filed a MTD hoping to keep the status quo of not closing section 22. If section 22 isn’t resolved, there will be no JCBA and USAPA is the party to blame for any and all delays in that regard.

 

[Pi brat]

You actively support a fake union that illegally terrorizes the minority at every single opportunity to do so. The group you champion extorts money, threatens, lies, and intentionally....relentlessly attempts to scare the traveling public away from their airline because of their ridiculous claims that there is a "safety" problem. All in a failed effort to force the company to accept an illegal seniority list. USAPA and it's scab supporters are a pathetic scum of the Earth.

You're wrong. I do have all of you USAPA supporters pegged. You're Garbage.

Maybe you're the angry F/O, Mr "We hate you guys!". Oh, that's right you're not a US pilot.

I'm going to give you a chance to show us all how smart you are. I can feel the smart westies wincing right now.

How so I support USAPA?
Why do you call USAPA fake? Because as Doug Parker said they are the legally elected CBA of US Airways pilots and he is bound to negotiate and work with them.
How exactly do they distort money?
Is there any chance there is any safety issue at this airline? Do you know what Paul Morrell said about that and what a captain is to do if he feels the operation is unsafe?
Just the fact, not your opinion: Is the effort to remove the Nic "failed" or delayed?

Looking forward to your always insightful answers.

If you are this upset about an event at a company you don't even work for I would hate to see what happens to you if you get a bad bag of oranges at Safeway.

 

[cleardirect]

It's interesting how the term "collusion"seems to continually "pop-up" in the new vernacular of labor discussions. It's DOH. Even Parker recognizes all the other labor unions went that way. BTW, the Latest PHX crew news won't help your case in "DFR II".

Good luck with your flawed legal arguments.

You think that the west pilots telling the CEO that the union is not representing us fairly hurts our case?

A jury found usapa liable of DFR. Answer this. Do you think that usapa over the last has has given us MORE evidence of DFR? Why do you think we are not recalling Cleary? He hands us more evidence everyday that usapa is not representing west pilots fairly.

Read the last PHX update. What do you think a jury will do with a contract that gives 94% of the contract and 85% of the seniority to east pilots? Fair representation of west pilots?

 

[aquagreen73s]

It’s not my legal argument (flawed or spot on), it is the legal position held by Management as presented to Judge Silver by their litigation attorney Robert Siegel at the February 9th DJ hearing:

(Siegel, pg 12)

(Siegel, pg 13)

(Siegel, pg 22)

In order to move forward USAPA needs to alleviate Management’s legal concerns over section 22 and USAPA’s potentially illegal non-NIC seniority list. Instead of helping to resolve the open legal question, USAPA filed a MTD hoping to keep the status quo of not closing section 22. If section 22 isn’t resolved, there will be no JCBA and USAPA is the party to blame for any and all delays in that regard.

Great post Callaway. Interesting though that so far it has two negative recs. Sad, really. You present the facts and some here refuse to accept what is painfully obvious to any sane person who knows how to read English. What Siegel said in court could not be misunderstood. There will be no JCBA until S22 is resolved in the courts. That's not pro West or pro East - it's reality. But some don't want to embrace reality, hence the negative recs.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Great post Callaway. Interesting though that so far it has two negative recs. Sad, really. You present the facts and some here refuse to accept what is painfully obvious to any sane person who knows how to read English. What Siegel said in court could not be misunderstood. There will be no JCBA until S22 is resolved in the courts. That's not pro West or pro East - it's reality. But some don't want to embrace reality, hence the negative recs.

Thanks Aqua. I thought the same thing. Posters have no response to the facts but mark the post as negative anyway. Ignorance is bliss until someone proves that your position is dead wrong.

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA President Lee Moak Writes about Affecting Positive Change for Pilots, our Profession and our Industry

See Story

 

[Sadstateofaffairs]

You actively support a fake union that illegally terrorizes the minority at every single opportunity to do so. The group you champion extorts money, threatens, lies, and intentionally....relentlessly attempts to scare the traveling public away from their airline because of their ridiculous claims that there is a "safety" problem. All in a failed effort to force the company to accept an illegal seniority list. USAPA and it's scab supporters are a pathetic scum of the Earth.

You're wrong. I do have all of you USAPA supporters pegged. You're Garbage.

Don't beat around the bush! Let us know how you truly feel about us.

Sad

 

[nevergiveup]

You actively support a fake union that illegally terrorizes the minority at every single opportunity to do so. The group you champion extorts money, threatens, lies, and intentionally....relentlessly attempts to scare the traveling public away from their airline because of their ridiculous claims that there is a "safety" problem. All in a failed effort to force the company to accept an illegal seniority list. USAPA and it's scab supporters are a pathetic scum of the Earth.

You're wrong. I do have all of you USAPA supporters pegged. You're Garbage.

Is that a red or a Chardonnay I hear?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

ALPA President Lee Moak Writes about Affecting Positive Change for Pilots, our Profession and our Industry

See Story

Very interesting, You do relize this is the same LEE MOAK that said the airline industry would be better off without usairways!