US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

So your argument is: I'm too stubborn to admit the Nicolau list is final & binding, so I am completely willing to work for the lowest industry wage because it makes me feel better??

OK. As long as long as we have that straightened out.

The Nic, is not the middle. That's my opinion and we will just agree to disagree on that. You do not staple furloughed employees with 15+ years of service at the time behind a newhire. That does not fall in the "honor" and "integrity" category.

"So your argument is: I'm too stubborn to admit the" DOH "list is final & binding, so I am completely wiling to work for the" next to the "lowest industry wage because it makes me feel better??"

"OK. As long as we have that straightened out".

It is equally arguable.

 

[No Land Green]

The Nicolau Award IS THE MIDDLE. It is the COMPROMISE. Now STAPLING the East beneath the West is EXTREME. You will eventually have "to deal with" that fact. The question remains: how long does the East group wait? How much money and QOL are you willing to let pass you by. Carry on.

There is way more resolve on the East side than you will ever know. Don't rely on the "unbiasedfacts.org" person or the other ALPA phites as a barometer. Again I see it every day. Like the Wye River person told me, the West screwed the pooch on that one. Oh well, the courts will provide "direction" for this ongoing matter.

 

[luvn737s]

I agree. Do you think the Parker will offer enough money to get a contract with the Nic in it past the NAC, AND a ratification vote?

So you're saying it would be cheaper for Parker to agree to a DOH integration because the east would be willing to forego iimprovements to wages and benefits just to screw the west?

 

[cleardirect]

There is way more resolve on the East side than you will ever know. Don't rely on the "unbiasedfacts.org" person or the other ALPA phites as a barometer. Again I see it every day. Like the Wye River person told me, the West screwed the pooch on that one. Oh well, the courts will provide "direction" for this ongoing matter.

Don't need to rely on ALPA phites or unbiasedfacts. Your own VP Mowery. How many time did he use the word resolve?

If you have to tell people you have resolve than you don't really have any.

BTW. How is it we screwed the pooch? You just said the courts will provide direction. If they direct the Nicolau down your throat I would say they made the right call.

I would also say that right now it is the east pilots and usapa that continues to screw the pooch. Still on LOA 93. Still no DOH. Still afraid of ALPA.

 

[cleardirect]

So you're saying it would be cheaper for Parker to agree to a DOH integration because the east would be willing to forego iimprovements to wages and benefits just to screw the west?

I think the quote from Seham was.

Parker would be willing to sign a cost neutral contract to buy labor peace. At least for 2/3 of the pilots.

 

[Metroyet]

Good point and DOH will then prevail. Great idea Metro.

The transition agreement still does not go away. that will never change .

 

[crazystnic]

The Nicolau Award IS THE MIDDLE. It is the COMPROMISE.


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HA HA.. Now that is funny

 

[No Land Green]

Don't need to rely on ALPA phites or unbiasedfacts. Your own VP Mowery. How many time did he use the word resolve?

If you have to tell people you have resolve than you don't really have any.

BTW. How is it we screwed the pooch? You just said the courts will provide direction. If they direct the Nicolau down your throat I would say they made the right call.

I would also say that right now it is the east pilots and usapa that continues to screw the pooch. Still on LOA 93. Still no DOH. Still afraid of ALPA.

Yeah, we have no resolve on the East, LMAO. You really have no idea.

I was told the deal your side turned down. Amazing, and you would still have come out on top. Whatever, right?

I'm predicting that the "direction" the court provides, you are not going to like. Judge Silver already gave a big hint in the transcripts. I caught that the first time I read them.

No one is afraid of ALPA or the unbiased facts person. We are "keeping our eye on the prize" to steal a phrase from the West ALPA MEC. The East looks down range in time...........Remember, most of us have been financially preparing for disaster a long time ago, so a raise just goes in the bank. I feel your frustration, we have been living it for decades on the East side. Parker and his unwillingness to pay an industry average wage is to be expected and we are dealing with it.

 

[No Land Green]

I think the quote from Seham was.

Parker would be willing to sign a cost neutral contract to buy labor peace. At least for 2/3 of the pilots.

"Cost Neutral" is a concession. Automatic NO vote.

 

[cactusboy53]

***************************8

HA HA.. Now that is funny

And yet sadly it is the truth. Sadder still; it will cost us all dearly in wages, time off with our loved ones, and overall improvements in a new contract.....forest for the trees Crazy, forest for the trees.

 

[Barrister]

The Nic, is not the middle. That's my opinion and we will just agree to disagree on that. You do not staple furloughed employees with 15+ years of service at the time behind a newhire. That does not fall in the "honor" and "integrity" category.

"So your argument is: I'm too stubborn to admit the" DOH "list is final & binding, so I am completely wiling to work for the" next to the "lowest industry wage because it makes me feel better??"

"OK. As long as we have that straightened out".

It is equally arguable.
[/quote

No Land let me correct you sir.......17 year NEVER furloughed junior to a 3 month newbie......and not just one either!!!!
Don't forget...most of the West on this board are junior co-pilots masquerading as Captains!!!

NIC is DOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

The Nic, is not the middle. That's my opinion and we will just agree to disagree on that. You do not staple furloughed employees with 15+ years of service at the time behind a newhire. That does not fall in the "honor" and "integrity" category.

"So your argument is: I'm too stubborn to admit the" DOH "list is final & binding, so I am completely wiling to work for the" next to the "lowest industry wage because it makes me feel better??"

"OK. As long as we have that straightened out".

It is equally arguable.

No Land let me correct you sir.......17 year NEVER furloughed junior to a 3 month newbie......and not just one either!!!!
Don't forget...most of the West on this board are junior co-pilots masquerading as Captains!!!

NIC is DOA
NPJB

Keep thinking that.

But all of the east posters on here are senior captains?

 

[cactusboy53]

The Nic, is not the middle. That's my opinion and we will just agree to disagree on that. You do not staple furloughed employees with 15+ years of service at the time behind a newhire. That does not fall in the "honor" and "integrity" category.

"So your argument is: I'm too stubborn to admit the" DOH "list is final & binding, so I am completely wiling to work for the" next to the "lowest industry wage because it makes me feel better??"

"OK. As long as we have that straightened out".

It is equally arguable.

While you are entitled to your opinion (my opinion is that Randy McNerlin should have been the first or second pilot on the Nicolau list...but that is just my opinion), it still remains YOUR OPINION. Technically, the Nicolau is the result of a agreed upon process that is both final and binding. DOH is the acclaimed "GOLD STANDARD" and the "way all other labor groups at US Airways conduct their seniority lists".....according to the VP of USAPA (these also are opinions expressed by Randy Mowery, not to be confused with facts).

I'm pretty sure that AWA isn't next lowest wage (under the category of "majors" it's UAL right now @ $137), but as long as you are willing to be paid less than AirTran ($153), Alaska ($172), American ($166), Continental ($169-$150), Delta ($167-$161), Hawaiian ($162), Jet Blue ($159), SWA ($212!), Allegiant ($153), Frontier ($156), Spirit ($152), then I guess it's your bed and you can sleep in it for as long as the vote remains for the status quo.

The question to the remaining 2000+ former AAA pilots that DON'T post here: How long are you willing to delay the final and legal outcome? Are you willing to let hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless days and hours of time off simply pass you by with NO chance of getting a return?

USAPA = Seniority Matters (ahhhhh, MONEY & TIME OFF, not so much....)

 

[Black Swan]

Because compared to Spirit's $186.00 an hour it's bloody stinking EMBARRASSING! As a future CLT based Captain, I expect my "union" to negotiated for better wages and contract terms.

Are you so locked in your attempt to evade a final and binding seniority integration, that you will do ANYTHING to not make it happen? :blink: Jeez Louise! I guess that explains the "nevergiveup" call sign.

CB53, hate to inform you, but your groups' failure to immediately get pay parity for the east, and then going for the remaining fight cost all of us. That simple minded move kept you at the bottom also. I really don't see Parker giving a good deal. He knows you guys will not back the east, and is going to exploit it. Both east and west will be at his mercy. It is a dream for management. We are going to wait for Kasher, and if he does not come in, hang in for the movement coming. Your choice is to count on PHX remaining viable. That is your reality. Ours is what we have now., this is our reality. Prepare for it. As time goes on, more and more east pilots will be getting pensions from PBGC, Mil, and SS available. Many have a lot of sick time. Expect it to get even more hostile for management and you as time goes on. There is much, much less to lose.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I agree LS. There needed to be something in the middle to ever make this marriage work. Both DOH and NIC are too extreme for the entire group to deal with.

Unless there were no other choice. Hypothetically speaking, if the law would decree either the nic or uspa's list as THE LIST PERIOD, we could all pull on the same rope. I don't think the law is going to give any such clarity, at this point.

And even if the law would give the clarity, there is more to it obviously. The clarity wouldn't do anything to bring about a contract. We'd still have to pull on the same rope. But if there were clarity on the list, it might facilitate coming to our senses in a shorter time frame than now, with the list still being open ended.