US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

CB53, hate to inform you, but your groups' failure to immediately get pay parity for the east, and then going for the remaining fight cost all of us. That simple minded move kept you at the bottom also. I really don't see Parker giving a good deal. He knows you guys will not back the east, and is going to exploit it. Both east and west will be at his mercy. It is a dream for management. We are going to wait for Kasher, and if he does not come in, hang in for the movement coming. Your choice is to count on PHX remaining viable. That is your reality. Ours is what we have now., this is our reality. Prepare for it. As time goes on, more and more east pilots will be getting pensions from PBGC, Mil, and SS available. Many have a lot of sick time. Expect it to get even more hostile for management and you as time goes on. There is much, much less to lose.

BS;
It was NOT our group's failure to "get pay parity for the east". You were told time and time again by Parker & Kirby that pay parity will arrive for the east in the form of a new JNC, PERIOD. With Stephan telling the AAA JNC members to LEAVE the JNC table, you brought that on yourselves.

You are right, this is a dream for LCC management. The longer that your group refuses to abide by ALL tenets of ALL contracts, agreements and side letters, the longer you will remain on LOA93.

Phoenix is taking care of itself. Over 5 million residents and an economy that is slowly returning. The vacationers are returning in the winter, and business travel is still there. We are competing with SW in an acceptable manner, and the traveling public has picked up on the fact that they are not always the least expensive fare.

Have a great night.

IF, Kasher returns with a verdict in your favor you will have two problems:
1. Getting Doug to pony up the $$, because you have shown him that final is not final and binding is not binding until such time that you can get some court to make you do what you said you would do.
2. AWA becomes the lower wage earner. How long will it take Doug (if forced to pay snap back wages) to whipsaw us against your group....about a NY second.

 

[nevergiveup]

BS;
It was NOT our group's failure to "get pay parity for the east". You were told time and time again by Parker & Kirby that pay parity will arrive for the east in the form of a new JNC, PERIOD. With Stephan telling the AAA JNC members to LEAVE the JNC table, you brought that on yourselves.

You are right, this is a dream for LCC management. The longer that your group refuses to abide by ALL tenets of ALL contracts, agreements and side letters, the longer you will remain on LOA93.

Phoenix is taking care of itself. Over 5 million residents and an economy that is slowly returning. The vacationers are returning in the winter, and business travel is still there. We are competing with SW in an acceptable manner, and the traveling public has picked up on the fact that they are not always the least expensive fare.

Have a great night.

IF, Kasher returns with a verdict in your favor you will have two problems:
1. Getting Doug to pony up the $$, because you have shown him that final is not final and binding is not binding until such time that you can get some court to make you do what you said you would do.
2. AWA becomes the lower wage earner. How long will it take Doug (if forced to pay snap back wages) to whipsaw us against your group....about a NY second.

I bet Doug would offer DOH in exhange for a pay cut. It could be very intereting. Hope I'll be out of here by then!

 

[cleardirect]

CB53, hate to inform you, but your groups' failure to immediately get pay parity for the east, and then going for the remaining fight cost all of us. That simple minded move kept you at the bottom also. I really don't see Parker giving a good deal. He knows you guys will not back the east, and is going to exploit it. Both east and west will be at his mercy. It is a dream for management. We are going to wait for Kasher, and if he does not come in, hang in for the movement coming. Your choice is to count on PHX remaining viable. That is your reality. Ours is what we have now., this is our reality. Prepare for it. As time goes on, more and more east pilots will be getting pensions from PBGC, Mil, and SS available. Many have a lot of sick time. Expect it to get even more hostile for management and you as time goes on. There is much, much less to lose.

usapa has been the bargaining agent for 3 years. How come usapa has not gotten you pay parity yet? Why have they not made that a priority? There is no west to stop you or keep you from getting it now. So I would say it is the failure of east pilots to do ...anything.

We will back the union as soon as you guys decide to live up to your agreement, arbitration. At that point we can get a good contract. Until then usapa is going to continue to give away industry leading parts of the west contract.

Yes PHX will remain viable for as long as the company is in business. Your delay just like voting for usapa locks that in stone. The T/A that is still in place and requires usapa to protect it has min block hours. So even of PHX shrinks the company has to find us flying. Even if that means it has to come from the east. That is what Parker is going to have to do. And usapa is going to have to make sure that happens. Or it is DFR.

The sooner more of you old rusthead leave this airline the sooner we can fix the mess you caused. So please hurry up and leave. Bring in those new hires. They have no dog in this fight and no expectation of being able to jump the line knowing that eventually this company will be put together as soon as the number favor the west.

More hostile. Bring it on. That is one thing that company will not and can not put up with. Hostile east pilots will be dealt with...harshly! It would be a shame to be a 59 year reserve F/O and loss your job because you could not control your anger and greed. But if you have noting to loss give it a try. Show us what you got big boy.

BTW I hope you will be able to control your anger when Kasher fails to deliver your dream.

 

[cleardirect]

I bet Doug would offer DOH in exhange for a pay cut. It could be very intereting. Hope I'll be out of here by then!

Why would anyone accept a pay cut for DOH?

I thought the east guys said their seniority was not for sale. But maybe buying it is OK. Fly just for less money just to sit in the left seat. People usually do that to get into the airline business not right before the retire after 30 years.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Fellow pilots,



We realize that our letters to you have raised several questions as well as few minor misunderstandings. It is important that tomorrow's crew news session remain focused on the issues, free from subtle credibility attacks against our letters. Therefore, we ask that you take the time to become familiar with the following facts.



TOMORROW'S CREW NEWS



The details of tomorrow's crew news are as follows:





On Thursday, May 19, Chairman and CEO Doug Parker will host PHX Crew News at the Jeffrey D. McClelland Flight Training Center, room 747. The flight attendant session will run from 11:15 a.m. to 12 noon and the pilot session will run from 12:15 p.m. - 1 p.m. Lunch will be provided at all sessions for those crew members in recurrent training; others are welcome to bring a brown bag lunch.



Management informed us that tomorrow's crew news session was placed on the calendar in early April, and therefore was not called in an "emergency" as our letter suggested. If management's assertion is true, then we apologize for any misunderstanding our previous letter may have caused. However, we also note that despite the fact that management may have scheduled the crew news over a month ago, we have yet to find any company publication prior to yesterday that announces it. This is a minor point however, but we want to shoot straight with you as we have no motive other than seeing that the company does not unfairly pilfer dollars from our paychecks.



THE EAST OVERPAYMENT



In our first letter, we brought to your attention the fact that there are no plans to recoup the East overpayment. It is important that we qualify this statement and explain the underlying facts that support it. First, following our uprising last year, the company and USAPA did eventually schedule an arbitration date for the grievance underlying the East pay error, and that arbitration was recently completed. The fact that the East's dispute was arbitrated is in of itself a disparity in treatment from our case. However, even assuming that disparity did not exist, our concern stems from the fact that - based upon our experience - the East overpayment may still be forgiven. Once the arbitrator rules in the East's case, the remedy phase could take another year (or longer). Moreover, it is not uncommon for the parties to reach a settlement following an arbitration on the merits; meaning, that the overpayment could still be negotiated away in another backroom deal. With the West overpayment "settled," the spotlight might be taken away from Mr. Hemenway, and he may then subsequently enter into another disparate deal with USAPA. The fact is that it was only by accident that we learned of the first backroom deal that essentially forgave the East overpayment, and it will be much more difficult in the future to detect if he makes a similar deal.



We fully expect Mr. Hemenway and Mr. Parker to be in full spin mode tomorrow and as usual deflect the true history and circumstances of this event. No airline CEO would ever publicly admit to facts that reflect poorly upon him. The bottom line is that the company does share responsibility for setting the arbitration schedule, or not setting the schedule in a timely manner.



EXPEDITED ARBITRATION



We have highlighted the concern about the fact that dozens of other unresolved West grievances have been sitting in suspension for 3 years while this case received untimely attention. It is likely that both the company and USAPA are going to hang their hats on an "expedited arbitration" clause in our contract that permits them to do so. Our contract mandates expedited arbitration for only the following types of disputes:



1. Section 1 - Recognition, Scope and Management Rights

2. Section 17 - Missing, Internment, Prisoner or Hostage of War Benefits

3. Section 25 - PBS implementation, modification, or administration

4. Section 25 - PBS change of vendors



However, the company and union may - by mutual agreement - agreed to expedited arbitration for any dispute. You will probably not be surprised to learn that - in fact - prior to this grievance, the company and union have never agree to expedite a grievance other than those required to be expedited. The fact that it was done so here reeks of collusion.



DISTANCE LEARNING DUE MAY 25TH



To be extremely clear, we strongly suggest that all PHX-based pilots complete the current distance learning as soon as possible, and certainly no later than May 25th.



Not completing the distance learning module is NOT an effective way to send a message to management, and will only subject individual pilots to trip removal and possible discipline. Fight smart - please complete your distance learning ASAP.



WHY WE WOULD NOT RECEIVE A FAIR ARBITRATION FROM USAPA



Management will likely be quick to blame the two of us for USAPA's failure to arbitrate the case. The fact is that USAPA was not going to properly argue our case, and would have only used us as patsies. Our decision to withdraw from participation only came after several good-faith attempts by us to ensure that our issues would be properly represented. Consider the following facts:



1. USAPA was provided certain information by the company pertaining to the alleged overpayment. Despite repeated requests to view this data, USAPA refused to provide us with any of it.



2. USAPA refused to take responsibility for its part in failing to verify the West credit times in accordance with the LOU, and therefore refused to address that issue in arbitration.

3. USAPA Grievance Chairman Tracy Parrella repeatedly misrepresented the company's position about several key issues. When presented with information from the company that contradicted her misrepresentations, she merely ignored our replies or changed the subject.



The fact is that USAPA was ONLY interested in seeing $2.6 million come out of our paychecks in the most onerous terms possible, and was not interested in engaging in a good faith effort to resolve our legitimate concerns about the alleged overpayment. Nor was the company interested in finding ways to mitigate the burden that its error imposes upon us. The company could have easily sought the input of our elected PHX USAPA representatives, but they did not do that. In fact, Mr. Hemenway has consistently refused to involve the elected PHX representatives in both of his attempts to pilfer money from your paychecks.



WHY MR. PARKER CANNOT BLAME USAPA



The fact is that USAPA - and its repeated acts of financial and seniority terrorism - is kept alive merely by the false hope that it will be a vehicle to abrogate a seniority arbitration that all parties agreed to at the outset of the merger. Perhaps Mr. Parker thought that the East's attempts would have blown over by now, but in fact, it has only continued to get worse. Mr. Parker cannot continue to abrogate responsibility for an increasingly hostile work environment.



The company will argue that it is legally required to negotiate with USAPA. While that is true on its face, the fact is that the company is not required to enter into any deals with USAPA. Certainly contract negotiations is a perfect example. The company entered into this settlement with USAPA on its own volition and will full knowledge of the malice with which USAPA sought it. Therefore, the company is complicit.



The company will also argue that it had "no choice" but to resolve this dispute in the manner that it did. We cannot agree. With the number of highly compensated lawyers and professionals at its disposal, the company certainly could have and would have resolved the dispute in a more reasonable manner if had the motivation too. Moreover, the simplest choice would have been to simply forgive the repayment, or at least hold it in abeyance until such time more palatable resolution terms could be achieved. The company caused this error, the company exacerbated the error by initially treating us disparately from the East, and now the company is attempting to resolve it on terms satisfactory only to the company and USAPA, while ignoring your PHX elected representatives. This is unacceptable.



CONCLUSION



We again repeat that we are not asking for much here. Had this happened four years ago, we are certain that it would have been resolved quickly and amicably, especially with a solution that would not have resulted in taking money from your paychecks after suffering furloughs and downgrades disproportionately with the East. At any point in time over the past year, the company could have contacted the PHX elected representatives and sought advice on the least invasive way to solve their problem, but they chose not to do that. Now they have locked themselves into a solution that unfairly takes money from your paycheck when there were other options available.



It is up to you to hold them accountable.



See you tomorrow at 1215 PM



Mitch and John

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

BS;
It was NOT our group's failure to "get pay parity for the east". You were told time and time again by Parker & Kirby that pay parity will arrive for the east in the form of a new JNC, PERIOD. With Stephan telling the AAA JNC members to LEAVE the JNC table, you brought that on yourselves.

You are right, this is a dream for LCC management. The longer that your group refuses to abide by ALL tenets of ALL contracts, agreements and side letters, the longer you will remain on LOA93.

Phoenix is taking care of itself. Over 5 million residents and an economy that is slowly returning. The vacationers are returning in the winter, and business travel is still there. We are competing with SW in an acceptable manner, and the traveling public has picked up on the fact that they are not always the least expensive fare.

Have a great night.

IF, Kasher returns with a verdict in your favor you will have two problems:
1. Getting Doug to pony up the $$, because you have shown him that final is not final and binding is not binding until such time that you can get some court to make you do what you said you would do.
2. AWA becomes the lower wage earner. How long will it take Doug (if forced to pay snap back wages) to whipsaw us against your group....about a NY second.

Oh yea that PHX leisure market, No one wants it! Kasher coming in, 2 problems? Maybe for WEST and DOUG! http://achievenext.com/blog/as-economic-indicators-turn-positive-the-bill-for-bad-workplace-behavior-comes-due this might explain your PHX dilema!

 

[A320 Driver]

Why would anyone accept a pay cut for DOH?

I thought the east guys said their seniority was not for sale. But maybe buying it is OK. Fly just for less money just to sit in the left seat. People usually do that to get into the airline business not right before the retire after 30 years.

Just because Doug offered it doesn't mean anyone would buy into that. I don't think ANYONE is THAT stupid.

Driver B)

 

[A320 Driver]

I have a novel idea all you "Agents of Leonidas". How about letting Doug talk to himself tomorrow. I mean, is he REALLY going to address your problems or offer you anything of value? Does he REALLY care what you think? Do you think he is concerned with anything other than his compensation?

IMO, NO, NO and NO.

But you guys will probably pack the room. Hey! Maybe he'll let one of you shine his shoes!!!

Driver B)

 

[nevergiveup]

Why would anyone accept a pay cut for DOH?

I thought the east guys said their seniority was not for sale. But maybe buying it is OK. Fly just for less money just to sit in the left seat. People usually do that to get into the airline business not right before the retire after 30 years.

You need to read the statement before you get excited and respond. Doug would be like Harvey Korman trying to find a way to take advantage of a railroad detour!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ok cleardirect. I guess by now you know that I was yanking your chain. I could practically see you salivating over there, saying "Please say he should have left them in, please say he should have left them in!", because by taking them out it helped us, IF he used the same ratio, right? Say he was going to use 2 to 1 no matter what, and then removed the larger numbers of east inactive, it moves the east group forward?

Sometimes I think you're so intent on finding things wrong with the Nic that you see things that aren't there or at least try to overcomplicate things to turn them into problems. Nic merged the lists based on the 2005 certified lists. Whether he then took out those that had left employment (or resigned from furlough) between May 2005 and whenever in 2007 matters not other than that leaving them in would have resulted in a list with more names.

I don't know what you think Nic did, but here's what he actually did. Removed the non-flying from each list*, dole out the jobs (300+ East, then by ratios for the remainder of the active line pilots by equip/seat), put into the combined list the non-flying but still with the airline (medical, furlough, etc) while leaving out those who had severed their relationship with US (retired, resigned, death, etc).

So it doesn't matter if he updated the combined list to 12-31-2005, 12-31-2006 or when - the names of the pilots still attached to US in 2007 (employed, medical, furloughed, supervisory, etc) would have been in the same order. The difference would be in the number of people not still attached to US - making the list longer or shorter depending on the date he updated the list too. That's why the bottom active line-flying guy from each airline were still the bottom guys on Nic's updated lists.
* One thing is unclear and not explained. On the east side, the "supervisory" check airmen aren't flying the line full time. I don't know how their peers on the west side are listed on the west list but if there was a difference between the two sides that would have had to be worked out so both sides lists were comparable in listing those pilots.

In other words, updating the list to 2007 didn't help or hurt either side. Likewise, not updating the list wouldn't have helped or hurt either side.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Oh yea that PHX leisure market, No one wants it! Kasher coming in, 2 problems? Maybe for WEST and DOUG! http://achievenext.com/blog/as-economic-indicators-turn-positive-the-bill-for-bad-workplace-behavior-comes-due this might explain your PHX dilema!

No PHX dilema. Min block hours. usapa has to mantain at least our current flying no matter what the PHX market does. Is it that difficult for you to understand that?

 

[snapthis]

I have a novel idea all you "Agents of Leonidas". How about letting Doug talk to himself tomorrow. I mean, is he REALLY going to address your problems or offer you anything of value? Does he REALLY care what you think? Do you think he is concerned with anything other than his compensation?

IMO, NO, NO and NO.

But you guys will probably pack the room. Hey! Maybe he'll let one of you shine his shoes!!!

Driver B)

Since I being held hostage by the training dept, I figure I should eat some of the free food.

Or maybe not. :unsure:

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have a novel idea all you "Agents of Leonidas". How about letting Doug talk to himself tomorrow. I mean, is he REALLY going to address your problems or offer you anything of value?

I'm glad you put that "IMO" in there. I assume that the distance learning pay issue will come up and nobody knows what Parker will say until he's asked a question on it. Following your advice would leave everyone wondering and solve nothing. At least asking questions will get him on the record no matter what he says.

If Kirby comes to CLT and the word is out that he knows what the ruling on LOA93 is would you recommend to no one go so he wouldn't be asked about it, just because the answer might be something the east pilots don't want to hear?

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

I'm glad you put that "IMO" in there. I assume that the distance learning pay issue will come up and nobody knows what Parker will say until he's asked a question on it. Following your advice would leave everyone wondering and solve nothing. At least asking questions will get him on the record no matter what he says.

If Kirby comes to CLT and the word is out that he knows what the ruling on LOA93 is would you recommend to no one go so he wouldn't be asked about it, just because the answer might be something the east pilots don't want to hear?

Jim

I've got another idea. YOU GO.

I'm surprised by the number of people that go to those things to listen to practically NOTHING. If word was out on LOA 93, do you think he would tell you anything about it...NO.

I can only speak for me, but I've had my last Koolaid from LCC.

Driver B)

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No PHX dilema. Min block hours. usapa has to mantain at least our current flying no matter what the PHX market does. Is it that difficult for you to understand that?

No, always did but, when your revenues are nil and someone IE DP has to balance revenue you will not be able to sell spoiled goods, ie your liesure market, how much EAST flying are you covereing? There is a point of finacial diminishing returns! No misunderstanding that! YOUR HUB IS A FLUB!