US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

You are having serious issues, go seek some help, and prove your dumb accusation.

It was dumb, but you and your goons did it.

 

[700UW]

Prove it

 

[BoeingBoy]

Displaced pilots will be placed within any base bid category in system-wide seniority order

And there's the "gotcha" - what will the pilots displaced from PHX be able to hold with their "system-wide seniority order" when the junior captains in PHX are lower on the seniority list than most of the ex-furloughees? As I said, the protection is in PHX and if West pilots are forced out they're out of luck as far as holding anything equivalent unless they're the most junior or most senior.

And if PHX closes? Sure, they've got a right back to a position in a closed base.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

And there's the "gotcha" - what will the pilots displaced from PHX be able to hold with their "system-wide seniority order" when the junior captains in PHX are lower on the seniority list than most of the ex-furloughees? As I said, the protection is in PHX and if West pilots are forced out they're out of luck as far as holding anything equivalent.

Jim

I've been told that the captains get captain bids, but in DOH order.

Again...........I'm not expecting it to sooth the west, but it is something, and more than Nic gave the east.

 

[BoeingBoy]

and more than Nic gave the east.

Wrong again. Nic gave the East ~2 of every 3 positions starting below the 517 all the way to the 1st furloughed. Look at a DOH list - how many of the top 1000 positions go to the West vs the East? The top 2000?

I'll repeat what I've said since USAPA put out it's C&R's back in what...2008. They're designed to keep the West pilots in PHX while East pilots move up plus slowly take over in PHX. Even if you're right about a captain displaced from PHX can get an equivalent captain job on the East, how long will that west pilot be the bottom guy/gal on the roster - can you say years? During those years, is the west pilot exempt from displacement? Not that I've seen, so a few bids later he's displaced and is then fighting with ex-furloughees for a job at the bottom.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Luv;
Speaking of "FIRED"......Who's going to be FIRED (you remember your proclamations from early April, right)? When's that going to happen? Your pal in the CPO dish anymore LIES for you to tell here? While there is a "father of LIES", you sir must be his step-son.....

You have to have some patience, you would think by now you know how slow the leagal system is. Just relax.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You have to have some patience

For such a cut-and-dried case as you and others have made it out to be? There should have been at least charges filed if you and the others were right. Could it be that...gasp...you were wrong?

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

You have to have some patience, you would think by now you know how slow the leagal system is. Just relax.

Luv;
I am developing the patience of Job. I'm not sure about your "leagal" system, and frankly there really isn't any participation of ANY law enforcement is there? The company is having an independent law firm look into situation.

You kids are going to end up with egg on your face (AGAIN). The industry peers are in utter amazement at your actions. No shame, no remorse, and no CLUE.

 

[Pi brat]

Wrong again. Nic gave the East ~2 of every 3 positions starting below the 517 all the way to the 1st furloughed. Look at a DOH list - how many of the top 1000 positions go to the West vs the East? The top 2000?

I'll repeat what I've said since USAPA put out it's C&R's back in what...2008. They're designed to keep the West pilots in PHX while East pilots move up plus slowly take over in PHX. Even if you're right about a captain displaced from PHX can get an equivalent captain job on the East, how long will that west pilot be the bottom guy/gal on the roster - can you say years? During those years, is the west pilot exempt from displacement? Not that I've seen, so a few bids later he's displaced and is then fighting with ex-furloughees for a job at the bottom.

Jim

Twist, twist, twist. How many C&Rs are left in the Nic? You asked how long that west pilot be at the bottom of the roster. With the Nic how long will I be at the bottom of the roster? The guy ahead of me on the Nic is not, and never has been a captain, but if they flipped the switch tomorrow he could be a secondary block holder in PHL on the 737. Or an A330 block holder F/O in PHL. Or a 76I block holder F/O in CLT or PHL. But that's different, right?

 

[cactusboy53]

Stupid is your same attitude that resulted in the west turning down what the East offered. You keep forgetting that you could not get hired by a major, that is why you ended up at america west, with drunk flying, drug flying, picket crossing cro magnon pilots.

What a great guy you must be. Sharing the flight deck with someone such as yourself will be a real treat. See you in Philly. I'll be the guy with the four silver stripes on my shirt & coat, a groovy new Captain's hat & sporting a great attitude. I'll show you how to have fun, be pleasant to the passengers (you know, those people that BUY tickets), and make this into great experience.

Have a great night.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Stupid is your same attitude that resulted in the west turning down what the East offered. You keep forgetting that you could not get hired by a major, that is why you ended up at america west, with drunk flying, drug flying, picket crossing cro magnon pilots.

And if AWA hadn't bought you out, you would be stocking shelves at Walmart for minimum wage. What a miserable person you must be, too bad that passengers don't have the right to a no fly list for some pilots....

 

[CallawayGolf]

If you think the east would have only accepted DOH, why didn't they propose it, and fight for it with the shuttle? Traderjake and Jim have told you that many PI pilots believe in relative position(they are right, just don't let them know I said so )), so what about them?

How many east pilots so you actually know? You say the evidence points to...., but have you had any real conversations with any? Does all your information come from AOL?

The shuttle? Not sure what that has to do with the HP/US merger. Seems like a very different situation to me. What I know is that the east demanded DOH or nothing throughout the process and then squealed and threw a temper tantrum when they didn't get DOH. I'm not saying there are not reasonable and rational east pilots, they just don't have control over the union or the strategic decisions it makes. We can all guess what might have been, but what we have is a ratio integration that protects more east positions than west and those in control on the east refuse to accept it.

If the east had proposed fences and didn't get them, you might have something to lament. However, the east went for DOH even in the face of knowing NIC wasn't going for it and then they came apart emotionally when they didn't get what they were told they wouldn't get. My point was that NIC abided by the process and the SLI framework and gave the pilots what they asked him for, an integrated seniority list that he felt was right and fair and equitable. I see nothing to indicate that with a few adjustments but not DOH that the east would have accepted it. You might have, but the majority, in my opinion, would not have. Actions speak much louder than words.

 

[CallawayGolf]

So tomorrow may never come, but if it does and the bottom of the west reaps massive gains in relative position, at a bigger airline with a more diverse fleet that the other side was flying, with the the side that had those assets taking the negative hit, so be it?!


While we're here, maybe you can answer a few questions that your slower brothers can't/won't. Freebird said that the TA said that no furloughed pilot would be placed below any active pilots. I can't find that and when I asked him to quote it, he didn't. Do you know where that might be? Also, fodase said that USAPA lied with it's chart of EF's seniority, but failed to produce the truth when I asked for it. Do you know? When I pulled up the latest west seniority list on wings it showed him exactly where USAPA said he was. Thanks.

I believe the no furloughed pilot taking an active pilot's position was stated in the joint statement on labor integration signed by Parker and Lakefield. This statement provided the foundational framework for the negotiated TA. So, it would seem that giving furlough pilots higher seniority status than active west pilots would have violated those stated principles. Without looking at the documents side by side I'm not sure of the legal implications if NIC had violated the principles, but it seems unlikely that he would since he was certainly aware of Management's requirements for a certified list. NIC got it right by definition that what both MECs hired him to do (make a fair decision that the couldn't come up with themselves). If you disagree then put the NIC on trial and prove to a court that award violated the SLI requirements provided to him by the MECs and ALPA national.

 

[nic4us]

You can't lose what you NEVER HAD!!! You don't RATE those positions because of who you worked for.


Driver <_<

F U scab!!

 

[nic4us]

Stupid is your same attitude that resulted in the west turning down what the East offered. You keep forgetting that you could not get hired by a major, that is why you ended up at america west, with drunk flying, drug flying, picket crossing cro magnon pilots.

Another scab...F U scab...