US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

By all means, please expand on this. Why isn't there anything worth putting out for a vote? Now don't blame Management; its the CBA's job to create leverage and negotiate from a position of strength. So, besides looking like impotent amatures, what has USAPA done on the non-seniority sections of the contract?

The following is what was put up for consideration of the west pilot leaders, they turned it down. Thank your west leaders for their inability to grasp reality. It will be date of hire now for the USairways pilots, thanks to the idiots that you supported. Thank you for the two million dollars the west pilots provided to make doh the ultimate result. Too late now. 100 percent of the west pilots wanted the ill fated nic, 100 percent of the east pilots did not, case in point. Could of, should of, would have.

PROPOSED CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS, offered by the East pilots

The following conditions and restrictions shall limit the application of the adjusted dateof-
hire seniority list for all bids effective on or before June 1, 2014:
1. The first 176 positions as captain on the A330, B767/757-I, or replacement
aircraft, and the first 283 first officer positions on the A330, B767/757-I, or
replacement aircraft, shall be reserved to the pre-merger US Airways pilots.
Positions in excess of these quotas shall be allocated so that the pre-merger
US Airways pilot group ends up holding twice the number of additional
captain positions and twice the number of additional first officer positions,
beyond its respective quotas, as are held by the America West pilot group.
2. Positions as captain on the B767/757-D (including all B767/757 captain
positions in PHX or LAS), or replacement aircraft, shall be allocated with
quotas of 159 positions for the pre-merger US Airways pilots and 87 for the
America West pilots. Positions in excess of the combined quota of 246
positions shall be allocated so that twice as many are awarded to pre-merger
US Airways pilots as to America West pilots. Positions shall be reduced
below the combined quota of 246 positions so that the pre-merger US Airways
pilot group ends up double the number of positions below its quota as the
America West pilot group is below its. A worksheet suitable for the allocation
accounting between the pilot groups is attached as Appendix A. Any vacancy
in the quota of a pilot group shall be filled by a pilot from that group.
3. Pursuant to the parties’ agreement dated June 13, 2006, and notwithstanding
the provisions of Paragraph 2 above, the America West pilot group shall be
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entitled to no fewer than seven captain and seven first officer positions on the
first merged bid if the pre-merger US Airways fleet includes at least 224
Airbus and Boeing aircraft at that time. In the event that there are insufficient
vacancies in the first bid, the America West pilots shall be entitled to be
awarded the remaining vacancies in subsequent bids until at least seven B757
captain and seven B757 first officer positions have been awarded to them. If
the US Airways fleet includes 223 or 222 Airbus and Boeing aircraft at that
time, the America West pilots shall be entitled to be awarded five or two B757
vacancies, respectively, in the first merged bid. If the US Airways fleet
includes 221 or fewer Airbus and Boeing aircraft at that time, the provisions
as to the minimum America West pilot B757 vacancies shall be inoperative.
4. Positions as captain on the B737/A320 aircraft, or replacement aircraft, shall
be allocated as with the B767/757-D captain positions, except that the quotas
shall be 914 and 782 for the pre-merger US Airways and America West pilots,
respectively, and the ratio for positions above or below the combined quota of
1,696 shall be five-to-four. A worksheet for the allocation accounting on
these positions is attached as Appendix B.
5. Pursuant to the award of Arbitrator Dana Eischen dated September 5, 2006,
the America West pilots shall be entitled to one-third of the captain and first
officer positions on the EMB-190 aircraft in operation on the date of the first
merged bid. In the event that there are insufficient vacancies in the first bid,
the America West pilots shall be entitled to be awarded the remaining
vacancies in subsequent bids until one-third of the captain and first officer
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positions on the EMB-190 have been awarded to them. As EMB-190 aircraft
are added to or reduced from the fleet, bids shall be awarded so as to achieve
or preserve a relationship of two pre-merger US Airways pilots to each
America West pilot.
6. In the event that either pilot group fails to fill its allotment of positions on an
aircraft type under the quota and ratio system outlined above, the members of
the other pre-merger group shall be entitled to be awarded any positions for
which there are insufficient bidders and the conditions and restrictions
applicable to the position in question shall no longer be subject to the
limitations specified herein, but shall instead be awarded pursuant to the
integrated seniority list and merged collective bargaining agreement.
7. America West pilots shall be entitled to the following domicile protection:
a. An America West pilot involuntarily displaced from a position in PHX or
LAS shall have a priority right to reinstatement to that position or an
equivalent position in PHX or LAS ahead of a pre-merger US Airways
pilot if a vacancy in that position is posted for bidding effective during the
life of these conditions and restrictions or within seven months from the
pilot’s displacement, whichever affords the longer protection. For
purposes of this domicile protection, B737 and A320 captain positions
shall be deemed equivalent as shall first officer positions on the B737 and
A320. This provision shall not modify the aggregate allotments of the
America West pilot group specified in Paragraphs 1, 2, 3 and 4 of these
conditions and restrictions. A pilot who voluntarily fails to exercise his
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right of reinstatement when available to him/her shall forfeit his/her right
with respect to ensuing vacancies, except that a pilot shall not forfeit
his/her right of reinstatement by bypassing a position in a domicile other
than the domicile to which he/she was assigned at the time he/she was
displaced. Nor shall a forfeiture of the right of reinstatement occur as a
result of a B737 pilot bypassing an A320 position, or vice versa.
b. In addition to the protection specified in Paragraph 7.a. above, the
America West pilot group shall be entitled to a total of 869 captain
positions in PHX and LAS on B737/A320/B757 aircraft, or replacement
aircraft. This provision shall not increase the America West pilot group’s
aggregate allotment of captain positions specified in Paragraphs 1, 2, 3
and 4 of these conditions and restrictions.
8. “Replacement” aircraft are aircraft of a type other than A330, B767/757,
A320, B737 or EMB 190, which are added to the fleet as one or more of the
foregoing types are retired, and which are intended to substitute for them in
the missions they perform and are similar in their capability to perform those
missions. “New” aircraft are aircraft types other than those listed in the
preceding sentence that are not “replacement” aircraft; positions on “new”
aircraft types shall be allocated to the pre-merger US Airways and America
West pilot groups, respectively, 2:1 on widebodies and 5:4 on narrowbodies.
9. Except as specifically stated in these conditions and restrictions, the integrated
seniority list and the merged CBA shall govern in all matters, including
promotion and demotion, choice of vacancies, filling of vacancies, assignment
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or reassignment due to expansion or reduction in schedules, retention in case
of reduction in force, re-employment after release due to reduction in force;
provided, however, that any US Airways pilot on furlough on the date of the
first merged bid shall be subject to furlough ahead of America West pilots
junior to him/her for 365 days following his/her date of recall. The provisions
in Paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 above for allocating the number of positions to
the respective pilot groups are intended to determine the number of positions
that the Company awards to each pilot group and are not otherwise to affect
the manner in which the Company closes the bids or administers the bidclosing
or seniority provisions of the collective bargaining agreement.
10. The conditions and restrictions established herein constitute an integral
element of the award of this Arbitration Board adopting a merged length-ofservice
seniority list and it is the intention of this Board that they shall remain
in effect, subject to their terms with regard to expiration and insufficient
bidders, even if the combined US Airways-America West seniority list is
subsequently merged with the seniority list of another carrier.
11. The Kagel Award. The conditions and restrictions imposed by the Kagel
Award, effective October 31, 1988, shall not be affected by the foregoing
conditions and restrictions.

 

[Pi brat]

"No, USAPA proposes some weak protections for PHX. If, as you said, PHX shrinks or is closed those protections disappear. They're only good in PHX.

Jim "




I doesn't look like they do, at least for captains. From the USAPA C&Rs and FAQs:

Reduction of Flying

Reductions of Captain positions system-wide are shared East and West on a ratio basis. The ratios are established upon contract signing and are aircraft and pay group specific; the ratios will be based on the actual staffing levels that exist at that time. For example, if at contract signing the B-737 ratio is 10 East Captains for every 6 West Captains, then any B-737 Captain position reductions would be allocated using that ratio. The ratios will be readjusted 12 months following contract signing to account for staffing realignment due to work rule changes.



3. How does the ratio system work when the company reduces the amount of flying we do?
First of all, the ratio system is only applicable when there are reductions to the amount of flying that either pilot group is performing as of contract signing, and as subsequently adjusted one year after the contract signing. The ratio system only applies to captain positions; it does not apply to first officer positions.
The mechanics of the process are as follows:
A snapshot of the number of positions available in each applicable aircraft position will be recorded. For this example, we will say there are an equal number of AB320 captain positions West and East, 100 each. Now we will assume that 20 AB320 positions are eliminated in PHX. There are now 180 total positions available, down from the original 200. In order to maintain the original ratio of 1 to 1, system-wide there will be 90 positions allocated for East pilots and 90 positions will be allocated for West pilots. The overall result is that there will be a loss of 20 actual bid positions in PHX, the loss of which will be shared with the East pilot group. This means that 10 West pilots will lose their seat and 10 West AB320 captains will be permitted to displace to the East operation, displacing 10 East AB320 captains, and thus maintaining the original ratio. Displaced pilots will be placed within any base bid category in system-wide seniority order. Displacement captain positions will be filled by a seniority bid from within the existing applicable aircraft type captain bid category. Keep in mind that this procedure is bi-directional; East pilots may displace West if East flying is reduced. West captains displaced to the East will retain protected position rights in PHX and LAS.

I know they are not enough for the west, but a lot more than Nic gave they east.

 

[Pi brat]

I think you're right about it not mattering now. On the bright side, both sides seem to be seeing some benefits to the seperate ops, and hopefully, time and attrition on both sides will go a long way towards alleviating the worst of our fears. In other words, I think I'm tying to say something like my dad always told me, "a hundred years from now, none of this will matter." Of course I'm thinking a much shorther timeline than a hundred years, but that's the gist of it.

Yeah, or as mine says "Things work out for a reason", but for the life of me I can't see this one! :blink:

 

[luvthe9]

Think This Through, Damage The Company You Are Negotiating With?

See Story

So speaks the "WEASEL" that was fired for trying to damage the company, what a fool no one listens to you, go back and sell some vitamins.

 

[cactusboy53]

The following is what was put up for consideration of the west pilot leaders, they turned it down. Thank your west leaders for their inability to grasp reality. It will be date of hire now for the USairways pilots, thanks to the idiots that you supported. Thank you for the two million dollars the west pilots provided to make doh the ultimate result. Too late now. 100 percent of the west pilots wanted the ill fated nic, 100 percent of the east pilots did not, case in point. Could of, should of, would have.

...

The following is what the former US Air pilots signed up and agreed upon: FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION. Regardless of changing the CBA, you are responsible for representation of all portions of the contract(s), agreements and tenets of the former CBA...PERIOD.

It may take 20+ years, but you will be force fed the Nicolau Award. As a DIRECT result, you will have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Could of, should of, would have.

USAPA.....You just can't fix stupid.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Yeah, or as mine says "Things work out for a reason", but for the life of me I can't see this one! :blink:

Me neither. I guess I'm just trying to bs myself, I dunno.

 

[cactusboy53]

So speaks the "WEASEL" that was fired for trying to damage the company, what a fool no one listens to you, go back and sell some vitamins.

Luv;
Speaking of "FIRED"......Who's going to be FIRED (you remember your proclamations from early April, right)? When's that going to happen? Your pal in the CPO dish anymore LIES for you to tell here? While there is a "father of LIES", you sir must be his step-son.....

 

[sumadarson]

The following is what the former US Air pilots signed up and agreed upon: FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION. Regardless of changing the CBA, you are responsible for representation of all portions of the contract(s), agreements and tenets of the former CBA...PERIOD.

It may take 20+ years, but you will be force fed the Nicolau Award. As a DIRECT result, you will have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Could of, should of, would have.

USAPA.....You just can't fix stupid.

Stupid is your same attitude that resulted in the west turning down what the East offered. You keep forgetting that you could not get hired by a major, that is why you ended up at america west, with drunk flying, drug flying, picket crossing cro magnon pilots.

 

[700UW]

Not nice to talk about your fellow east pilots like that.

I do remember them running and flying over a picket line at US in October of 1992.

 

[traderjake]

So speaks the "WEASEL" that was fired for trying to damage the company, what a fool no one listens to you, go back and sell some vitamins.

Still waiting for the first of your many predictions to come true.

You might want to hold off calling someone else a fool.

 

[sumadarson]

Not nice to talk about your fellow east pilots like that.

I do remember them running and flying over a picket line at US in October of 1992.

I do remember your cro magnon men in the union you belonged to, ramp and lav cleaners, defecating in passenger bags back then.

 

[sumadarson]

Not nice to talk about your fellow east pilots like that.

I do remember them running and flying over a picket line at US in October of 1992.

Did you guys remove the teddy bears before you dropped one??

 

[700UW]

Get your facts straight, in 1992 the ramp was non-union and no one in mtc had access to baggage, keep trying.

Also you pilots took concessions in 1992 giving the company the green light to screw all the non-union employees.

 

[sumadarson]

Get your facts straight, in 1992 the ramp was non-union and no one in mtc had access to baggage, keep trying.

Also you pilots took concessions in 1992 giving the company the green light to screw all the non-union employees.

Your union deposited west pilot type messages in the passenger bags back then. Look in the mirror.

Rock, meet dumber.

 

[700UW]

You are having serious issues, go seek some help, and prove your dumb accusation.