US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

You'll wind up with about the same number of upgrades under separate ops as you will with the Nic.

Oh really? Well I guess aqua you are agreeing to DOH with C&R's. It's settled. We ARE separate ops and for some reason it is killing the West way more than the East. Are you sure what you state above is true?

BTW, the biggest whiners that want a pay raise on the East are the ones who VOTED YES for LOA 93. Imagine that......LMAO!!!!!

 

[No Land Green]

Of course it won't ever happen! Your cowardly, incompetent scab leadership will NEVER let you vote on anything. USCABA is he'll bent on making sure you stay on LOA93 pay forever.

It's what you wanted...enjoy!

Didn't answer me, are you debt free with all the money you make Metro?

 

[No Land Green]

. Apparently the arbitration board was supposed to abandon ALPA merger policy and the TA to give the east their long-awaited DOH list because they really, really wanted access to the west jobs no matter what amount of policy violations and harm to the west pilots DOH would bring.

Are you referring to the jobs in LAS and PHX? Or, are you referring to the jobs in CLT, PHL, LGA, BOS and DCA? It's never been about East migrating West, but West migrating East.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Are you referring to the jobs in LAS and PHX? Or, are you referring to the jobs in CLT, PHL, LGA, BOS and DCA? It's never been about East migrating West, but West migrating East.

Focusing on the wrong issue once again. Using the NIC, who would be downgraded from their PID status? Would any east CO’s be forced into the right seat? Would those holding a seat be furloughed while conversely having a furloughed pilot become activated under the NIC? Do the 517 WB pilots have any displacement concerns with the NIC? If three hundred pilots retire next year, how many of those opening would go to an east pilot vs. a west pilot?

Per the ALPA integration policy the SLI task is to preserve seats and status without unduly harming one group at the expense of the another. This is what the NIC did and it’s why the east is so upset about it. They didn’t and don’t want the west seats/status protected, they wanted them to be open season for anyone who preferred advancement over flying out of CLT, PHL, DCA or whatever. Nevertheless if you prefer to live in ignorant fear on LOA 93, then USAPA will do their best to keep you in that status for quite some time to come.

 

[Pi brat]

Any SLI decision by the arbitrator that didn’t go by DOH would have resulted in the same outcome.

Wrong. How can you say that? Can you tell the outcome of other events that never happened? I'm on the east and I am 99.99% confident that your statement is not correct.

Did you see my post about the AOL brochure and it's lie about being "promised" DOH?

 

[Pi brat]

Using the NIC, who would be downgraded from their PID status? Would any east CO’s be forced into the right seat? Would those holding a seat be furloughed while conversely having a furloughed pilot become activated under the NIC?

In the likely event of a PHX downsizing and massive displacement, yes, all the above.

You guys have it wrong. You think the east wants the west. It not that. We think the west won't be around and we don't want you taking the east.

 

[PullUp]

Focusing on the wrong issue once again. Using the NIC, who would be downgraded from their PID status? Would any east CO’s be forced into the right seat? Would those holding a seat be furloughed while conversely having a furloughed pilot become activated under the NIC? Do the 517 WB pilots have any displacement concerns with the NIC? If three hundred pilots retire next year, how many of those opening would go to an east pilot vs. a west pilot?

Per the ALPA integration policy the SLI task is to preserve seats and status without unduly harming one group at the expense of the another. This is what the NIC did and it’s why the east is so upset about it. They didn’t and don’t want the west seats/status protected, they wanted them to be open season for anyone who preferred advancement over flying out of CLT, PHL, DCA or whatever. Nevertheless if you prefer to live in ignorant fear on LOA 93, then USAPA will do their best to keep you in that status for quite some time to come.

East 25 yr guys will never see the 330 as they near retirement because 1100+ junior (hired 13 year after) guys will be above them on the Nic.
So, instead of retiring at S/N 100, they would retire at S/N 1200.
It ain't about today or tomorrow-no bump, no flush takes care of that - its 10-15 yrs down the road.
Kapeesh?

 

[luvthe9]

East 25 yr guys will never see the 330 as they near retirement because 1100+ junior (hired 13 year after) guys will be above them on the Nic.
So, instead of retiring at S/N 100, they would retire at S/N 1200.
It ain't about today or tomorrow-no bump, no flush takes care of that - its 10-15 yrs down the road.
Kapeesh?

And this is exactly what the west can't figure out. Why on earth would a 25 + east pilot take Nicolau for a small raise, and forever shut off the widebodies and their raises? DUH!

 

[No Land Green]

Focusing on the wrong issue once again. Using the NIC, who would be downgraded from their PID status? Would any east CO’s be forced into the right seat? Would those holding a seat be furloughed while conversely having a furloughed pilot become activated under the NIC? Do the 517 WB pilots have any displacement concerns with the NIC? If three hundred pilots retire next year, how many of those opening would go to an east pilot vs. a west pilot?

Per the ALPA integration policy the SLI task is to preserve seats and status without unduly harming one group at the expense of the another. This is what the NIC did and it’s why the east is so upset about it. They didn’t and don’t want the west seats/status protected, they wanted them to be open season for anyone who preferred advancement over flying out of CLT, PHL, DCA or whatever. Nevertheless if you prefer to live in ignorant fear on LOA 93, then USAPA will do their best to keep you in that status for quite some time to come.

Thanks for answering my question, it's about West migrating East.

No problem with LOA 93, did NOT vote YES for it, been debt free since 1997, looking forward to more move up, better schedule and vacation. Separate ops are not bad at all, this could go on forever. Enjoy stagnation, we sure have had our share of it on the East side, it's no fun.

 

[No Land Green]

East 25 yr guys will never see the 330 as they near retirement because 1100+ junior (hired 13 year after) guys will be above them on the Nic.
So, instead of retiring at S/N 100, they would retire at S/N 1200.
It ain't about today or tomorrow-no bump, no flush takes care of that - its 10-15 yrs down the road.
Kapeesh?

Can you say "windfall"?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Wrong. How can you say that? Can you tell the outcome of other events that never happened? I'm on the east and I am 99.99% confident that your statement is not correct.

Did you see my post about the AOL brochure and it's lie about being "promised" DOH?

I'm sure I saw your post but I haven't seen AOL brochure number four so I didn't have a basis with which to evaluate your comment. I'm sure I have now forgotten whatever point it was you were making.

Okay, then on a combined seniority list with no fences, meaning any pilot can move to any base or equipment type he/she can hold, what ratio would the east have found acceptable which also didn't leave the door open for one side to come over and displace someone from the other group? It's hard to imagine how that scenario could work out mathematically. On the other hand, if east wanted a LT fence to keep ops separate, where was that in the proposal to the arbitration board?

I'm willing and eager to hear how you propose to integrate the two populations into a single list which both protects the current status of pilots and also protects the envisioned opportunities for only one group of pilots 5, 10, 15 years in the future. It seems like a logical conundrum to me, but let’s have your vision of how that would work.

From my perspective all evidence leads to east collectively only being willing to tolerate a DOH list and that any other moderated/mediated/arbitrated decision that moves away from that supposed gold standard is cause for total meltdown and breach of any and all agreements that don’t support the DOH mantra. It’s just my opinion of course because I don’t know the future any better than you, Parker or Nicolau.

 

[CallawayGolf]

In the likely event of a PHX downsizing and massive displacement, yes, all the above.

You guys have it wrong. You think the east wants the west. It not that. We think the west won't be around and we don't want you taking the east.

Are you now predicting the future? I thought you just said predicting was in the arena of - who could possibly know that? What isn’t a prediction is that it can be mathematically shown that there were some 1700 east furloughs at the time of the merger and that some 80 percent of the east had an earlier DOH with AAA than their west counterparts did at AWA. Those numbers would pose a substantial threat to active west pilots immediately following a DOH system and a ratified CBA. Supposing that if the west shut down at some point in the near or distant future is a far cry from imposing DOH on the system which could literally displace 80% of west pilots. Does the NIC even come close to potentially displacing 80% of east pilots even in the highly unlikely event that PHX is closed?

 

[Black Swan]

Why is that?


Oh yeah because the EAST pilots refuse to live up to your agreements.

The west agrees and are ready to move on. It is the EAST that has the problem.

NWA/DAL arbitration, new contract. Both sides accepted.

All the EAST has to do is live up to your word and we can move on. so simple even an east pilot can understand.

Separate ops, so simple, the east pilots DO understand! You need to start watching the old show, MOVIN ON UP.... That is exactly what is going on east. Moving on up. Check out where Monda is, it all becomes perfectly Clear, Clear.

 

[Black Swan]

In the likely event of a PHX downsizing and massive displacement, yes, all the above.

You guys have it wrong. You think the east wants the west. It not that. We think the west won't be around and we don't want you taking the east.

Exactly. What they were told at the River Wye. "All the danger rests with the west.......... " J Freund

 

[luvthe9]

[sup][/sup]

Why is that?


Oh yeah because the EAST pilots refuse to live up to your agreements.

The west agrees and are ready to move on. It is the EAST that has the problem.

NWA/DAL arbitration, new contract. Both sides accepted.

All the EAST has to do is live up to your word and we can move on. so simple even an east pilot can understand.

Clear, this is just like what happens on the Suzie Orman Show, when someone asks someone to do something really stupid. And you have just done it. DENIED