US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

USAPA and the company will soon have a Silver lining to the possibility of any legal avenues the west thought they had.

I really do not know what Silver will say, but my best guess is, ......too late....collateral estoppel....issue preclusion....you had your chance....read the 9th's decision....then decide whether you want to hang your hat on usapa's arguements or AOL's arguements when the "unquestionably ripe" trial starts and merits and damages can be decided.

I am however certain that Silver will not tell the company they can have imunity from some future yet to be determined (totally unripe) case brought against them for contract breach and hybrid DFR.

Pretty much the same way I am certain no Federal judge in the USA will green light a bluebrint for reneging on a binding arbitration, rendering arbitrations useless, rendering McKaskill-Bond and other federal laws useless.


'99..?????...really????....the Silver lining to this whole fiasco is going to be watching Odell come back and displace scabs like you.

 

[A320 Driver]

Nic4us:
Everything boils down to what everybody has been telling the east from day one.
[/quote]


Yeah, NIC or NOTHING...we heard you the first time.

wouaaa ...

 

[nevergiveup]

Like I said nothing to show for it but wishful think by USAPA supporters.

Still making LOA 93 wages.

No Nicolau yet, the overwhelming probability is that the courts will not allow you to rewrite the seniority list.

You don't understand of what the 9th said, just more wishful thing on your part.

Nic is preventing this group from getting a contract and is harmful to all. If it was fair to both sides it would be in place. If it was unfair to both sides it would be in place....just ask the 9th!

 

[cleardirect]

Nic is preventing this group from getting a contract and is harmful to all. If it was fair to both sides it would be in place. If it was unfair to both sides it would be in place....just ask the 9th!

It is not the Nicolau that is preventing us from getting a contract.

It is the east pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. The whole point of arbitration is to avoid long court battles. Both sides agreed to arbitration. It is the east pilots that fail to accept the deal you made.

If east pilots would live up to their word we would all move forward. Instead you are preventing the entire group from getting a contract because you don't think it is fair and you are trying to impose your sense of fairness on all of us.

If the east will not accept the Nicolau than a court is going to have to force feed it to you.

Because we certainly know that an east pilots word is no good. No deals can or will be made with east pilots because you can not be trusted to keep your word.

 

[PullUp]

It is not the Nicolau that is preventing us from getting a contract.

It is the east pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. The whole point of arbitration is to avoid long court battles. Both sides agreed to arbitration. It is the east pilots that fail to accept the deal you made.

If east pilots would live up to their word we would all move forward. Instead you are preventing the entire group from getting a contract because you don't think it is fair and you are trying to impose your sense of fairness on all of us.

If the east will not accept the Nicolau than a court is going to have to force feed it to you.

Because we certainly know that an east pilots word is no good. No deals can or will be made with east pilots because you can not be trusted to keep your word.

The 'east' never filed a lawsuit over the 'nic'. USAPA only defended itself after a suit was brought against it by........you guessed it: the west!
NOW, who is holding this up?
Answer: who filed the latest lawsuit??? Not the 'east' or USAPA. Once again USAPA is defending against another lawsuit.
Place the blame where it belongs.
Cheers.

 

[luvthe9]

It is not the Nicolau that is preventing us from getting a contract.

It is the east pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. The whole point of arbitration is to avoid long court battles. Both sides agreed to arbitration. It is the east pilots that fail to accept the deal you made.

If east pilots would live up to their word we would all move forward. Instead you are preventing the entire group from getting a contract because you don't think it is fair and you are trying to impose your sense of fairness on all of us.

If the east will not accept the Nicolau than a court is going to have to force feed it to you.

Because we certainly know that an east pilots word is no good. No deals can or will be made with east pilots because you can not be trusted to keep your word.

It is the WEST pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. Keep the spin coming!!!! Sue should be your guys middle name.

 

[Metroyet]

It is the WEST pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. Keep the spin coming!!!! Sue should be your guys middle name.

Okay. Please locate the exact location of the "spin" please. The West pilots will not allow your scab majority to bend them over and steal their careers to make up for your failed one. Ain't ever going to happen. You go the "union" you wanted. You have the majority, you have all the votes. You scabs are driving the ship...so WHY then is there no contract? Why are you all being left in the financial dust by the rest of the Industry. Why are ALPA pilot groups out Earning and out classing your contract on all fronts?

You got what you wanted. What's the problem?

 

[CallawayGolf]

"even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award...." right from the 9th. Next, they will look you in the eye, and say the 9th did not say it! Classic denial. It is right in their faces, yet they will tell you Nicolau is binding.

Why don't we use the LOA93 result, when it is released, as the bellwether for just how good USAPA and its impartial legal experts are at interpreting contractual agreements and court rulings? If Kasher gives the east pilots a single red cent over this grievance then I will be much more inclined to believe that your interpretation of the 9th ruling has some potential merit. On the other hand, if Kasher rules in favor of Management and leaves USAPA and SSMP with nothing but egg on their face, then we have every reason to assume that this free pass out of the binding arbitration award is just a smoke screen and an intentional misinterpretation of what the 9th actually said and didn't say. If $eham was wrong on RICO, PBGC, and then again on LOA93, then it seems reasonable to conclude that he is also wrong on the NIC award. Convincing a couple of lazy liberal judges that an SLI case isn’t ripe until there is a ratified JCBA isn’t a great record of success.

 

[cleardirect]

The 'east' never filed a lawsuit over the 'nic'. USAPA only defended itself after a suit was brought against it by........you guessed it: the west!
NOW, who is holding this up?
Answer: who filed the latest lawsuit??? Not the 'east' or USAPA. Once again USAPA is defending against another lawsuit.
Place the blame where it belongs.
Cheers.

Did you read my post?

The reason arbitration is used is so that we don't waste time in a long drawn out court battle. The EAST pilots refused to abide by your agreement to use arbitration. That is reason the west sued. Because the EAST refused to accept the results.

East accepts the arbitration no law suit. Pretty simple. It is the EAST that is holding up this contract

If the EAST would accept the arbitration the company would not have to sue. IT is the EAST that is holding up a contract.

Think about it. If usapa and the EAST pilots are right why are you getting sued?

Man up, honor your agreements.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Did you read my post?

The reason arbitration is used is so that we don't waste time in a long drawn out court battle. The EAST pilots refused to abide by your agreement to use arbitration. That is reason the west sued. Because the EAST refused to accept the results.

East accepts the arbitration no law suit. Pretty simple. It is the EAST that is holding up this contract

If the EAST would accept the arbitration the company would not have to sue. IT is the EAST that is holding up a contract.

Think about it. If usapa and the EAST pilots are right why are you getting sued?

Man up, honor your agreements.

I found this quote on the US Airways A/C 321 thread:

Posted Yesterday, 12:42 PM
Veteran
Group:
Contributor Posts:
3,856 Joined:
12-September 04

I thought USAirways mechanics won a binding arbitration award to do all airbus work


I'm thinking to myself can we pick and choose which arbitrations to comply with? They better hope the opposing party has the integrity to abide by the results. <_<

 

[nic4us]

The 'east' never filed a lawsuit over the 'nic'. USAPA only defended itself after a suit was brought against it by........you guessed it: the west!
NOW, who is holding this up?
Answer: who filed the latest lawsuit??? Not the 'east' or USAPA. Once again USAPA is defending against another lawsuit.
Place the blame where it belongs.
Cheers.

Absolutely not true!

The east ALPA MEC (east pilots) filed the first lawsuit in federal court in the 4th district in DC. Their claim was the Nic was so far outside of reasonable bounds and industry practice that the arbitrator must have been negligent in his award. A total loser case, because relative seniority is not only well within industry standard, it has proven to be the industry standard.

Then usapa (east pilots) filed the RICO suit, in a blatent attempt to deprive the West of financial backing of AWAPPA, in order to prevent the West from mounting a legitimate legal front to block usapa's DFR persuit of DOH.

Then, once the Addington verdict was in, usapa (which by the DFR way=the east) filed the appeal.

Then of course, AOL filed for a writ from the SC.

The latest suit was filed by the company. However, contrary to seeking a quick resolution of the case, usapa (east pilots) has filed every frivolous claim it can imagine in order to delay the process and a ruling. AOL on the other hand (ironically a usapa co-defendant) seeks quick resolution of this case, supporting all the motions involved that would bring it to a more timely conclusion.

So, we can lay blame squarely where it belongs, and it belongs to usapa (i.e. the east pilots).

 

[cleardirect]

It is the WEST pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. Keep the spin coming!!!! Sue should be your guys middle name.

Are west pilots even at the table? usapa is in charge of this circus. usapa is made of EAST pilots. usapa is making the decisions. So it is EAST pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract.

East pilots have to blame someone for your failures. You got rid of ALPA so you can't blame them anymore.

East pilots are in charge. How is that working for you so far? All the west pilots did was get out of your way. This failure is all EAST pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

It is the WEST pilots that are preventing us from getting a contract. Keep the spin coming!!!! Sue should be your guys middle name.

If Sue is our middle name, it most certainly is USAPA's first name. Go get your little contract done...(oh wait, there's over 25 sections OPEN....moron). VP Mowrey says section 22 is a slam dunk, so how could we possibly be in your way?

Dude, take a shower. You reek of desperation. Peeee-Ewwwww!

 

[aquagreen73s]

Holy cow! How dense can you guys be? No. The 9th did not say the nic had to be in it. They said it can be whatever you want it to be... AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM THE WEST AS THEY FEAR. You are free to put whatever you want in it. Now why don't you tell me what it is the west fears? Could it be DOH? Your C&R's do not come close to mitigating the harm the west fears. So yes you can do whatever you want, with the pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR if you don't please the west. THAT is what they said.

Just take the nic and DOH as the two polar opposites. Every step away from the nic and closer to doh, risks the unquestionably ripe DFR. The ninth even spelled it out for you. I don't understand how many of you keep quoting the 9th yet ignore what they actually said. Especially the part about not doing the harm the west fears.

There simply is no way around the arbitrated list for you guys. There is no end game that will deliver a win. As I said, delay is your only game. Cleary knows it. So do most of the USAPA supporters. That's why delay is the only thing USAPA has been able to produce. We've been over this hundreds of times. We all know that you claim to be fine with that, LOA93 and all. But its only a matter of time before enough east pilots get tired and decide to move on. Some of your own pilots are already saying that it's getting awfully crowded on that fence.

You have no leverage over the west. They are in a far better position than you are contract wise, to sit this thing out until the last legal battle is won. They only need a relatively small number of east pilots to side with them when the time comes. Nothing will happen until Kasher and Silver are decided. So the delay will continue until then. That will be the trigger point for more action. Nothing but continued stale mate until then.

That's a very accurate assessment, Jetz. Support for the legal effort on the West is more robust than ever. uSAPa had better think of a plan B because bankrupting the West ain't going to happen. Then again, USAPA needs no backup plan!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Ox95ZttPo&feature=related

 

[PullUp]

Absolutely not true!

The east ALPA MEC (east pilots) filed the first lawsuit in federal court in the 4th district in DC. Their claim was the Nic was so far outside of reasonable bounds and industry practice that the arbitrator must have been negligent in his award. A total loser case, because relative seniority is not only well within industry standard, it has proven to be the industry standard.

Then usapa (east pilots) filed the RICO suit, in a blatent attempt to deprive the West of financial backing of AWAPPA, in order to prevent the West from mounting a legitimate legal front to block usapa's DFR persuit of DOH.

Then, once the Addington verdict was in, usapa (which by the DFR way=the east) filed the appeal.

Then of course, AOL filed for a writ from the SC.

The latest suit was filed by the company. However, contrary to seeking a quick resolution of the case, usapa (east pilots) has filed every frivolous claim it can imagine in order to delay the process and a ruling. AOL on the other hand (ironically a usapa co-defendant) seeks quick resolution of this case, supporting all the motions involved that would bring it to a more timely conclusion.

So, we can lay blame squarely where it belongs, and it belongs to usapa (i.e. the east pilots).

ALPA? Who is that? They haven't been here for a long time. Irrelevant.
RICO? Poop in the mail? What does that have to do with a contract?
Ahem...who filed the 'Addington' that took how long????
The appeal was in defense on the lawsuit the WEST filed and took how long????
Then, the failed attempt to petition the supremes by.....once again, the WEST.
USAPA would dearly love to 'get on with it' and bring home a contract.
However, AOL, through its threat of MORE LEGAL proceedings, is compelling management to once again revisit the courts, this time in search of a free pass on another lawsuit brought by the WEST.
(IMHO, the RLA and 'bargaining in good faith' is more than enough reason to complete a contract, but management seems to want to be unencumbered post-combined contract, for purposes they haven't made public.)
Do you see a pattern here?
I do.
The delay is definitely in the land of the setting sun.
Cheers.