US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR. 2010 WL 2220058 at *5.






Here, the Plaintiffs’ claims are even weaker than the claims of the America West
pilots that the Ninth Circuit held were unripe. While USAPA’s refusal to negotiate a CBA
incorporating the merged seniority list resulted in actual furloughs of some America West pilots
that would not otherwise have occurred, here, the Plaintiffs may be injured only if (i) USAPA
agrees to violate its constitution by implementing the Arbitration Board’s merged seniority list as
part of a new comprehensive collective bargaining agreement, (ii) the US Airways pilots agree
by majority vote to ratify that new collective bargaining agreement,10 and (iii) the list is
implemented without any conditions to alleviate or eliminate the perceived negative effect on the

9 See USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, Exhibit A to the Supplemental Declaration of James L. Linsey (“Supp.
Linsey Decl.”), at 8, § 8.D and 25, § 5.A.3.

10 The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work
the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a
CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR.
2010 WL 2220058 at *5.

 

[Black Swan]

The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR. 2010 WL 2220058 at *5.






Here, the Plaintiffs’ claims are even weaker than the claims of the America West
pilots that the Ninth Circuit held were unripe. While USAPA’s refusal to negotiate a CBA
incorporating the merged seniority list resulted in actual furloughs of some America West pilots
that would not otherwise have occurred, here, the Plaintiffs may be injured only if (i) USAPA
agrees to violate its constitution by implementing the Arbitration Board’s merged seniority list as
part of a new comprehensive collective bargaining agreement, (ii) the US Airways pilots agree
by majority vote to ratify that new collective bargaining agreement,10 and (iii) the list is
implemented without any conditions to alleviate or eliminate the perceived negative effect on the

9 See USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, Exhibit A to the Supplemental Declaration of James L. Linsey (“Supp.
Linsey Decl.”), at 8, § 8.D and 25, § 5.A.3.

10 The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work
the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a
CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR.
2010 WL 2220058 at *5.

"even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award...." right from the 9th. Next, they will look you in the eye, and say the 9th did not say it! Classic denial. It is right in their faces, yet they will tell you Nicolau is binding.

 

[Black Swan]

St. Louis? Are you lost?

Why would the west want to modify the Nicolau. It was done by arbitration that both sides agreed to. What was the west going to get out of modifying our position? What was in it for the west?

"NOW, you want to modify it!"
Who wants to modify the Nicolau? Not west pilots, it has been always is east pilots that want west pilots to give you something

"Even these guys get the NIC is dead"
No the Nic is not dead. The Nicolau award is perfectly alive and waiting. Waiting for usapa to finally pull their head out of a dark hole or the next merger.

Yes you do have to use the Nicolau. Read the 9th. The only way it does not have to be the Nicolau is if the west agrees. The west does not agree to anything other than the Nicolau. So Yes it does have to be the Nicolau.We have told you many times.

The last paragraph pretty much sums it all up..........

 

[BoeingBoy]

"“[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work
the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award”"

I'd sure hate to be in the same room with you when the Nic is imposed by court order - unless the earth stops spinning and USAPA comes up with a non-Nic solution that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear. Your meltdown will be complete and ugly to see...

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Nothing to show? Lets' see. No Nicolau. (ever- defeated and 9thed) Kasher coming on shortly, with the possibility of a good deal. Lots of guys leaving. Best of all? Seperate Ops.

Like I said nothing to show for it but wishful think by USAPA supporters.

Still making LOA 93 wages.

No Nicolau yet, the overwhelming probability is that the courts will not allow you to rewrite the seniority list.

You don't understand of what the 9th said, just more wishful thing on your part.

 

[A320 Driver]

Like I said nothing to show for it but wishful think by USAPA supporters.

Still making LOA 93 wages.

No Nicolau yet, the overwhelming probability is that the courts will not allow you to rewrite the arbitration award despite your lack of understanding of what the 9th said.

I think the lack of understanding is yours Jake. Luvthe9 just showed it to you in black and white.

Driver B)

 

[traderjake]

I think the lack of understanding is yours Jake. Luvthe9 just showed it to you in black and white.

Driver B)

Everybody has the right to be wrong, including you.

 

[luvthe9]

I think the lack of understanding is yours Jake. Luvthe9 just showed it to you in black and white.

Driver B)

Don't bother my friend, it's a case of "can't see the forest for the trees".

 

[BoeingBoy]

Given your track record, Luv, that's about the best news the west could get...

Jim

 

[sumadarson]

Holy cow! How dense can you guys be?

Jetz, your united pilot alpa reps are accused of taking advantage of their flight pay loss again. Your thoughts please sir?

united alpa pilots taking advantage of flight pay loss again, excerpt of article below. Shame.

""United MEC Vacation Policy—Kirk Schafsteller
Whereas, the rightfully elected LEC Officers of Council 11 should consider it a privilege to have
been elected to represent our interests at the MEC and to serve the pilots of this great council,
and
Whereas, the current UAL MEC Policy Manual provides a minimum of 5 hours pay credit per
day for MEC member vacation days used for scheduled meetings, and
Whereas, the current ALPA CBA (C2003 & LOA 05-02) provides for only 2.8 hours of pay
credit for line pilots, and
Whereas, the UAL MEC Policy Manual therefore provides for a significant "override" of a
minimum 2.2 hours of pay credit per day for vacation time used to attend MEC meetings, and
Whereas, some MEC members have chosen to abuse, or "game," this liberal MEC compensatory
days allowance provision of the UAL MEC Policy Manual in a manner unforeseen when the
policy was enacted, and
Whereas, such actions taken by MEC members seek only to provide such members with greatly
enhanced flexibility to use, and vastly increase pay credit for, such vacation time, and
Whereas, such scheduling behavior, might possibly meet the "letter of the law," as it pertains to
the currently written policies, but most certainly does not adhere to the "intent of the law" as
written, and
Whereas, such behavior is considered far from the norm for most MEC members and is currently
seemingly undertaken by only a select few MEC members,
Therefore be it resolved, Council 11 directs its officers to seek a change in the UAL MEC Policy
Manual to remove any such additional pay incentives from the MEC’s compensatory days
policy, and to provide MEC members with the exact same pay credit received by a line pilot in
the CBA at the time the vacation is taken (currently 2.8 hours for a scheduled vacation), and
Be it further resolved, in lieu of providing an MEC member with a series of individual ALPA
compensatory days off (either for vacation or to meet the Minimum Days Off provisions of the
CBA) to be used at their discretion, such days off must be provided in the same block of days as
awarded, both for line holders and MEC members who took compensatory days off during a
period when they were on a reserve schedule.
Intent: MEC members should not be able to split their awarded block of vacation or minimum
days off into smaller chunks, or even individual days, and should receive the same contractual
pay credit as a line pilot would have received in the current ALPA CBA, which would currently
provide 2.8 hours of pay credit per vacation day to the MEC member. There should be no
financial incentive for an MEC member to bid his vacation during an MEC meeting, especially
considering that this is a volunteer, elected position. ALPA policies should neither be designed
nor, as in this case, be used in an attempt to receive paid remuneration far in excess of an MEC
member’s line pilot status were they not on the MEC.""

 

[sumadarson]

united management has their incentive. The ual cal transition agreement management plum;

""13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date.""

My how time flies. Tick, tock.

 

[nic4us]

Are you going to start this over and say the 9th said the Nic HAD TO BE IN IT???

So 9 and Swan,

The bottom line is there is going to be no DFRII. The company is not going to renege with usapa and end up owing the West pilot class hundreds of millions just because Cleary thinks he can stall long enough to get himself into an A330 at the rest of the pilot groups expense.

Oh, the other thing. What the 9th said regarding the inclusion of the Nic is somewhat irrelevant (although you are both dead wrong in your reading, and they actually said, use it or the west is suing, and we all know who is going to "suffer the pain" of the loss). However, the 9th most explicityly said, and there can be no arguement or misinterpretation...not ripe. Ripeness for a DFR in this particular case would be at contract ratification. Absolutely no mention of when, how, why, where or what constitutes a corporations breach of contract with an employee group.

LCC is on the hook for hundreds of millions the instant they collude with usapa in their DFR quest. i.e. The company knows usapa has a loser case, and yet they join them??? Trust me, they are not as stupid as the usapa lawyer or leadership.

Problem for usapa is that Silver is going to tell the "Johnny come lately" company, too late, you should have brought this up in Addington, a case in which you were actually a defendant, and had every opportunity to get your questions answered there. i.e. she is going to tell the company, you should have recieved the jury verdict with usapa, and you should now know that you will lose once the case is ripe.

Everything boils down to what everybody has been telling the east from day one.

You ain't getting DOH. But now you can add, nobody cares whether or not you elected a scab union, you still ain't getting DOH.

 

[sumadarson]

So 9 and Swan,

The bottom line is there is going to be no DFRII. The company is not going to renege with usapa and end up owing the West pilot class hundreds of millions just because Cleary thinks he can stall long enough to get himself into an A330 at the rest of the pilot groups expense.

USAPA and the company will soon have a Silver lining to the possibility of any legal avenues the west thought they had.

 

[cactusboy53]

USAPA and the company will soon have a Silver lining to the possibility of any legal avenues the west thought they had.

Oh look....another luvthe9 LIE. Who's going to jail again? What a surprise from the depths of desperation.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Don't mind Nos...he just had another wet dream...

Jim