US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

Yup. The AOL mailings are starting to take root. This is why Kim jong clearydouche is so afraid of them.

Those mailers? Your last stand. Obviously. Until Koontz gets an understanding of what the 9th said, and you continue to believe his mailings, it makes it all the more clear that you have NO legal standing, only charts and propaganda. Rest assured, we have a very clear understanding of the depth and magnitude of what the 9th said, and the Nicolau went to the bottom of the sea. No matter how you attempt to re write it, the 9th was abundantly clear. Ignore it at your peril. The Nicolau does not have to be in it Piedmont 84. I think you get it. I don't care what Bradford said. What I voted on was a new union, and it didn't have the Nic in it. I really don't now about any van ride or what ever spin these guys pin their hopes on. Put us all on the stand. 99% will deliver the goods, and the story has nothing to do with Bradford and his intent, whatever it was. It was all about dumping ALPA and the system that went haywire. That is the story that is the truth, and will kill their plan. Re read the ALPA admonishments to the west group. They were absolutely warned about the Nicolau being unattainable, yet they went for it. That, was the end right there. Just because they don't get internal disputes and bargaining positions doesn't mean the 9th and the rest of the world doesn't. Let them ride it for all it is worth. It will take the last bit of cash they have for their continued legal attacks. Just remember how they handled pay parity. The company will use it for all it is worth against even them in the end. You cannot reason with this group. At this point? Destroy them in the legal field. Every bit of quarter they use against you. Pay parity, profit sharing. Do you even hear one thanks or discussion of how someone was mislead enough to not qualify profit sharing with pay parity? Now they use it to increase the gap. Game on to the end now. No more sitting on the fence. The west group will sue you at every chance. They laugh at you with pay parity and profit sharing. They will cross the line and take your livlihood given the chance.Just look at how they even attack a safety push, and use it against you to their means. You will NEVER be able to work or compromise with them. Wake Up! Be patient. The clarification will be coming, and I guarantee it will favor the East. Re read the 9th. They spin it constantly, but it kills the Nic. If you get a Kasher win? Take the money and deal with the rest. SAP to your legal limit down, and enjoy the retirements coming every day. It only gets better!

 

[Black Swan]

You're absolutely wrong. One quarter of the support is needed for DFR II, and the reason is that most of DFR II is already bought and paid for thanks to DFR I. 300 pilots at 3 grand a piece could easily cover it, up through the 9th and still have some left over. Believe me, I've run the numbers.

Here is the division in their ranks Piedmont 84. You have Johnny Mac versus Koontz. Koontz is the pilot/lawyer(which one?) and the guy that spins them to Leonidas and took them to Addingtons Last Stand. They are bleeding cash. Luvn knows it. Luvn and his group were grandstanded by Leonidas. It is not as tight as you think! B) Hang in there, the end is coming very very soon.

 

[Black Swan]

I agree that if a modified Nic * was placed in a contract with reasonable pay and benefit improvements (reality has to take hold at some point) that it would pass. And DFRII would probably not have sufficient financial backing to get off the ground if the margin for passage was in the 80+% range.

* However, the modifications would be retroactive to the date of the merger and many if not all of the benefits accruing to the east would likely have already occurred (i.e. fences).

Why then, didn't you come off the NIC at WYE and St Louis? Unbelievable! You guys at the helm had the chance to modify this abomination way, way back, with the absolute warning from ALPA council, and you pressed on. NOW, you want to modify it! This is unbelievable. Piedmont 1984. You are seeing the revelations from the top and internal west negotiating positions at the beginning. Even these guys get the NIC is dead. LUVN, pray tell how you now MODIFY this piece of crap after we see where the 9th took this thing? We KNOW we don't have to use the NIC, The 9th backs it up, and now you are willing to modify something we know we don't have to even use! This is hilarious! Piedmont- even the group that took them into battle are looking for cover now. Problem is, Leonidas took the handoff and they can't stop the train. Crack a cold one, this, is going to be very, very interesting

 

[Hate2fly]

Here is the division in their ranks Piedmont 84. You have Johnny Mac versus Koontz. Koontz is the pilot/lawyer(which one?) and the guy that spins them to Leonidas and took them to Addingtons Last Stand. They are bleeding cash. Luvn knows it. Luvn and his group were grandstanded by Leonidas. It is not as tight as you think! B) Hang in there, the end is coming very very soon.

Swan,

Everyone tried to tell these guys..........but they were younger and smarter! They had the desert judge in that joke of a court room. They had the water boarding buddy in the bay area. And they got spanked big time! Kasher will be in soon and let the attrition roll. The west was told by J. Freund that all the risk was on the west side of this transaction. The rift between J Mac and Koontz will rip the west pilots apart more than they already are. Get out the pop corn and just watch the west implode. They should have studied at the University of Pennsylvania. Spanked!

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

Swan,

Everyone tried to tell these guys..........but they were younger and smarter! They had the desert judge in that joke of a court room. They had the water boarding buddy in the bay area. And they got spanked big time! Kasher will be in soon and let the attrition roll. The west was told by J. Freund that all the risk was on the west side of this transaction. The rift between J Mac and Koontz will rip the west pilots apart more than they already are. Get out the pop corn and just watch the west implode. They should have studied at the University of Pennsylvania. Spanked!

Hate

USAPA best money ever spent!

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

Those mailers? Your last stand. Obviously. Until Koontz gets an understanding of what the 9th said, and you continue to believe his mailings, it makes it all the more clear that you have NO legal standing, only charts and propaganda. Rest assured, we have a very clear understanding of the depth and magnitude of what the 9th said, and the Nicolau went to the bottom of the sea. No matter how you attempt to re write it, the 9th was abundantly clear. Ignore it at your peril. The Nicolau does not have to be in it Piedmont 84. I think you get it. I don't care what Bradford said. What I voted on was a new union, and it didn't have the Nic in it. I really don't now about any van ride or what ever spin these guys pin their hopes on. Put us all on the stand. 99% will deliver the goods, and the story has nothing to do with Bradford and his intent, whatever it was. It was all about dumping ALPA and the system that went haywire. That is the story that is the truth, and will kill their plan. Re read the ALPA admonishments to the west group. They were absolutely warned about the Nicolau being unattainable, yet they went for it. That, was the end right there. Just because they don't get internal disputes and bargaining positions doesn't mean the 9th and the rest of the world doesn't. Let them ride it for all it is worth. It will take the last bit of cash they have for their continued legal attacks. Just remember how they handled pay parity. The company will use it for all it is worth against even them in the end. You cannot reason with this group. At this point? Destroy them in the legal field. Every bit of quarter they use against you. Pay parity, profit sharing. Do you even hear one thanks or discussion of how someone was mislead enough to not qualify profit sharing with pay parity? Now they use it to increase the gap. Game on to the end now. No more sitting on the fence. The west group will sue you at every chance. They laugh at you with pay parity and profit sharing. They will cross the line and take your livlihood given the chance.Just look at how they even attack a safety push, and use it against you to their means. You will NEVER be able to work or compromise with them. Wake Up! Be patient. The clarification will be coming, and I guarantee it will favor the East. Re read the 9th. They spin it constantly, but it kills the Nic. If you get a Kasher win? Take the money and deal with the rest. SAP to your legal limit down, and enjoy the retirements coming every day. It only gets better!

Things must really be getting desperate on the east. Did usapa make you "head" cheerleader? Are you starting to lose the support of the boys there loon? Writing to your own pilots to stay the course, the end is just around the corner, Don't give up yet.

Mowery's whole video joke was about resolve. It must be failing on the east if you have to keep talking about it.

Finish the sentence about what the 9th said. It does not have to be the Nicolau as long as it does not work the fear that the PLAINTIFFS have. You know what. The west pilots fear anything other than the Nicolau. So we decided (the plaintiffs) that it does have to be the Nicolau..

I can smell the fear from the east. Have your boys understood that the usapa ship has hit an iceberg and is sinking? Are the "loyal" usapa supporters figuring out that they are going to be plunged into a cold ocean because usapa didn't know what they were doing? Are the east pilots beginning to look for the life rafts (LOA 93 snap back) and found all of the boats have holes in them?

You asked your boys about a Kasher win. What about a Kasher loss? Will it be all hands abandon ship? How much support other than the AFO club will be left after 3 years of failure? What about all of those promises that usapa made? Better than ALPA. Cheaper than ALPA. Less fighting and division than ALPA. More transparent than ALPA. The line pilots would be in charge.

How is that all working out for you?

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA best money ever spent!

Hate

You make poor investments.

Best money spent because:

Because they got you a raise?
Improved contract?
More respect from management or other pilots in the industry?
The grievance committee stopping the company from violating the contract?


But keep writing those checks.

 

[luvthe9]

Things must really be getting desperate on the east.

No desperation, just patience, remember all good things come to those that wait. I love watching you guys spining out of control, I think the reality has finally set in.

 

[cleardirect]

No desperation, just patience, remember all good things come to those that wait. I love watching you guys spining out of control, I think the reality has finally set in.

How is "reality setting in"? What has changed? We are still waiting for Silver to rule. LOA 93 is MIA. Parrella just screwed the west again. Nothing different there.

The only thing different is the east has a couple more brochures to read.

It is another year of a failed merger delayed by selfish east pilots. usapa still has not delivered anything.

BTW anyone set to go to jail yet? usapa sure backed off the "ID scandal" pretty far. so much for your predictions.

You guys ready to keep this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We are! How about your "senior" guys that are going to become attrition so you junior guys can take the benefit of thier leaving under LOA 93? Could it be the top guys on your list are beginning to ask what is in this for them?

 

[BoeingBoy]

No desperation, just patience, remember all good things come to those that wait.

Better tell the head USAPA cheerleader. BS has gone from DOH ruling the day, to attrition/Kasher will ensure a contract with Nic won't pass, to the west being split off, to Parker/Glass giving lots of goodies in a new DOH contract, to shoring up support among those tired of the fighting and worst contract in the industry. Wonder what straw (or fantasy) he'll grab onto next....

Then there's poor Hate - reduced to quoting his own posts to get an 'Amen'.

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

Better tell the head USAPA cheerleader. BS has gone from DOH ruling the day, to attrition/Kasher will ensure a contract with Nic won't pass, to the west being split off, to Parker/Glass giving lots of goodies in a new DOH contract, to shoring up support among those tired of the fighting and worst contract in the industry. Wonder what straw (or fantasy) he'll grab onto next....

Then there's poor Hate - reduced to quoting his own posts to get an 'Amen'.

Jim

Going boy,

Did you pick up the uniform at the dry cleaners?

Hate

 

[crazystnic]

Why then, didn't you come off the NIC at WYE and St Louis? Unbelievable! You guys at the helm had the chance to modify this abomination way, way back, with the absolute warning from ALPA council, and you pressed on. NOW, you want to modify it! This is unbelievable. Piedmont 1984. You are seeing the revelations from the top and internal west negotiating positions at the beginning. Even these guys get the NIC is dead. LUVN, pray tell how you now MODIFY this piece of crap after we see where the 9th took this thing? We KNOW we don't have to use the NIC, The 9th backs it up, and now you are willing to modify something we know we don't have to even use! This is hilarious! Piedmont- even the group that took them into battle are looking for cover now. Problem is, Leonidas took the handoff and they can't stop the train. Crack a cold one, this, is going to be very, very interesting

**************************

exactly .... if you want NEW USAPA leaders now and want to talk why were you not interested in figuring this out at WYE?

 

[cleardirect]

Why then, didn't you come off the NIC at WYE and St Louis? Unbelievable! You guys at the helm had the chance to modify this abomination way, way back, with the absolute warning from ALPA council, and you pressed on. NOW, you want to modify it! This is unbelievable. Piedmont 1984. You are seeing the revelations from the top and internal west negotiating positions at the beginning. Even these guys get the NIC is dead. LUVN, pray tell how you now MODIFY this piece of crap after we see where the 9th took this thing? We KNOW we don't have to use the NIC, The 9th backs it up, and now you are willing to modify something we know we don't have to even use! This is hilarious! Piedmont- even the group that took them into battle are looking for cover now. Problem is, Leonidas took the handoff and they can't stop the train. Crack a cold one, this, is going to be very, very interesting

St. Louis? Are you lost?

Why would the west want to modify the Nicolau. It was done by arbitration that both sides agreed to. What was the west going to get out of modifying our position? What was in it for the west?

"NOW, you want to modify it!"
Who wants to modify the Nicolau? Not west pilots, it has been always is east pilots that want west pilots to give you something

"Even these guys get the NIC is dead"
No the Nic is not dead. The Nicolau award is perfectly alive and waiting. Waiting for usapa to finally pull their head out of a dark hole or the next merger.

Yes you do have to use the Nicolau. Read the 9th. The only way it does not have to be the Nicolau is if the west agrees. The west does not agree to anything other than the Nicolau. So Yes it does have to be the Nicolau.We have told you many times.

 

[767jetz]

Yes you do have to use the Nicolau. Read the 9th. The only way it does not have to be the Nicolau is if the west agrees. The west does not agree to anything other than the Nicolau. So Yes it does have to be the Nicolau.We have told you many times.

cleardirect,

It's a waste of time. The handful of east cheerleaders on this forum bounce from one delusion or fantasy to the next. Whatever fits the version of the world they want to wake up to in the morning. Just look at the track record of all their bravado. Rico; DOH slam dunk; Nic is dead; Addington never happened; identity theft and people going to jail; LOA93 pay restoration; more transparency; less union infighting; lower dues; "safety" propaganda... the list goes on and on and on. Everyone knows that the only thing they have done successfully is delay the inevitable outcome. They have not take one step closer to ultimately avoiding it. If anything they have only cast the final result in stone, and are now looking to blame someone else again. And all at the cost of untold dollars and quality of life sacrifices to them and their families, just to prop up their already over inflated, self entitled egos.

When UA/CO finally (eventually) finish a JCBA and move on to the SLI which will not include DOH, they will be the only pilot group hanging in the wind of a bankruptcy era contract. (Ironically they bask in the glory of it, like a badge of honor. ) Unfortunately they have dragged the west along for the ride. But I have every confidence that in the end it will be rectified in your favor.

 

[cleardirect]

cleardirect,

It's a waste of time. The handful of east cheerleaders on this forum bounce from one delusion or fantasy to the next. Whatever fits the version of the world they want to wake up to in the morning. Just look at the track record of all their bravado. Rico; DOH slam dunk; Nic is dead; Addington never happened; identity theft and people going to jail; LOA93 pay restoration; more transparency; less union infighting; lower dues; "safety" propaganda... the list goes on and on and on. Everyone knows that the only thing they have done successfully is delay the inevitable outcome. They have not take one step closer to ultimately avoiding it. If anything they have only cast the final result in stone, and are now looking to blame someone else again. And all at the cost of untold dollars and quality of life sacrifices to them and their families, just to prop up their already over inflated, self entitled egos.

When UA/CO finally (eventually) finish a JCBA and move on to the SLI which will not include DOH, they will be the only pilot group hanging in the wind of a bankruptcy era contract. (Ironically they bask in the glory of it, like a badge of honor. ) Unfortunately they have dragged the west along for the ride. But I have every confidence that in the end it will be rectified in your favor.

Thanks Jetz.

It is a bit painful. Like watching a friend turns into street crack whore. You try and help. You offer rehab but they just keep justifying what they are doing. That they have it under control and working the pipe in an alley, well everyone does it.

Dignity; overrated. They have DOH and usapa the pimp to provide.

Turn those tricks for DOH.

DOH=east pilot crack