US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Webster's II
3.a. One who works while others are on strike. b. One who is hired to replace a striking worker.

Oddly enough I agree that B.S.'s view is slightly too narrow but the dictionary definition has gotten too broad. "One who works while others are on strike" technically means that 99.99% or more of working Americans are scabs if they go to work while anybody is on strike. That definition needs to be more explicitely spelled out - "One who works while their co-workers who do the same job are on strike."

The "b" definition is the historically correct one but even that is too narrow since it omits workers in the same group who cross the picket line and thus are not new hires.

"Scab" is something of a slippery slope. Are the HP pilots who flew HP planes in Australia scabs? If yes, then how about the AA, DL, CO, US, UA, WN, B6, FL, etc pilots who flew their companies planes carrying Spirit customers from the same origin to the same destination not scabs?

You also have the whole issue of wet lease - US & BA had such an agreement. If the BA cabin cleaners when on strike were the wet lease crews scabs if they kept working? How about if the BA cabin crews went on strike? If it were the BA pilots on strike?

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

And you have to address the fact that the Ansett pilots were not on strike, they resigned in protest. Big difference.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Pi,

I also congratulate you on your post. It's nice to finally see some East posters directing their comments specifically to Nosum for his antics since day 1.

On your other post, where you said something to the effect of why the West wasn't pushing to get a contract in place to speed the DFR decision along. If you recall, the 9th ruled that the West couldn't bring it's DFR suit until a new contract was ratified - if ratified is generally what you meant by "in place". Until there is a tentative that is sent out for a ratification vote the West can't do anything - no West pilots are at the negotiating table. The timeline to a ratification vote is in the hands of the company, USAPA, and the mediator and there's nothing the West can do to influence it.

There's been a suggestion or two about the West just supporting the effort to get a contract with DOH to speed the process up and get to the DFR suit quicker. But as I've said when those came up, I'd guarantee the the first motion $eham files would be for a dismissal because the West supported getting that contract with the DOH provision.

So for now, the only thing that can even possibly speed up the process is if the court issues a DJ saying that Nic is required or DOH is suitable and it's upheld on appeal.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Pi,

I also congratulate you on your post. It's nice to finally see some East posters directing their comments specifically to Nosum for his antics since day 1.

On your other post, where you said something to the effect of why the West wasn't pushing to get a contract in place to speed the DFR decision along. If you recall, the 9th ruled that the West couldn't bring it's DFR suit until a new contract was ratified - if ratified is generally what you meant by "in place". Until there is a tentative that is sent out for a ratification vote the West can't do anything - no West pilots are at the negotiating table. The timeline to a ratification vote is in the hands of the company, USAPA, and the mediator and there's nothing the West can do to influence it.

There's been a suggestion or two about the West just supporting the effort to get a contract with DOH to speed the process up and get to the DFR suit quicker. But as I've said when those came up, I'd guarantee the the first motion $eham files would be for a dismissal because the West supported getting that contract with the DOH provision.

So for now, the only thing that can even possibly speed up the process is if the court issues a DJ saying that Nic is required or DOH is suitable and it's upheld on appeal.

Jim

Jim,

It doesn't matter who is at the table if they have no unity behind them. From the day Usapa was elected the majority of the west has fought them tooth and nail. I understand the sentiment, if I had this crammed down my throat, I think I would feel the same way, but I wonder about the strategy. We'll see, the courses are set.

 

[BLT]

Well the media is starting to pick up the safety noise from the East.

A "safety campaign" where you actually question the safety of the airline you work for. That's just brilliant. I wonder why no other pilot groups have done this?

I guess they couldn't make the traditional "safety campaign" work with the red badge backers. If the pilots aren't on board then you just go ahead and try to scare the public.

Nice. What will these men and women of great intelligence think of next. Maybe we can tell people our planes are haunted. A large percentage of the populace believes in ghosts.

Cleary can dress up in a sheet, say boo and then Meowery can punch them in the face.

 

[Boeing Driver]

Well the media is starting to pick up the safety noise from the East.

A "safety campaign" where you actually question the safety of the airline you work for. That's just brilliant. I wonder why no other pilot groups have done this?

I guess they couldn't make the traditional "safety campaign" work with the red badge backers. If the pilots aren't on board then you just go ahead and try to scare the public.

Nice. What will these men and women of great intelligence think of next. Maybe we can tell people our planes are haunted. A large percentage of the populace believes in ghosts.

Cleary can dress up in a sheet, say boo and then Meowery can punch them in the face.

I used to think you lowlifes were just being obtuse. Now I know you lowlifes just don't get it.....

You have got to love it...

Boeing Driver

 

[CactusPilot1]

Well the media is starting to pick up the safety noise from the East.

A "safety campaign" where you actually question the safety of the airline you work for. That's just brilliant. I wonder why no other pilot groups have done this?

I guess they couldn't make the traditional "safety campaign" work with the red badge backers. If the pilots aren't on board then you just go ahead and try to scare the public.

Nice. What will these men and women of great intelligence think of next. Maybe we can tell people our planes are haunted. A large percentage of the populace believes in ghosts.

Cleary can dress up in a sheet, say boo and then Meowery can punch them in the face.

Love the post.

Overnight, Cleary has decided the airline is "unsafe" for some reason. Other than idiots trying to open aircraft doors and leavng bomb threats in the lavs at other airlines, I have not seen the need to declare an emergency.

Obviously, Cleary has deployed the slide at the gate.

Brilliant.

 

[BLT]

I used to think you lowlifes were just being obtuse. Now I know you lowlifes just don't get it.....

You have got to love it...

Boeing Driver

I believe that safety is sacred and not a negotiating tactic. If that makes me a lowlife in your eyes then so be it.

Sorry to disappoint you. But I don't get it at all. I just think it it is wrong.

I am astounded and sickened by this latest tactic. I really can't believe any professional pilot would think this is a good idea. Are there no limits?

I continue to be embarrassed to be called a US Airways pilot.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Source: Reformusapa.com

Coming soon: A Constitutional Amendment to amend the USAPA Constitution. This is needed to ensure representation for all under USAPA. As a result of the current West/East division brought on by the misuse of the union structure, USAPA is no position of ever fulfilling its role as a Collective Bargaining Agent for all US Airways pilots.

Some of the items that will be put forward will be:

1.Removing DOH from the constitution and replace it with the McCaskill Bond language. This merger occurred on May 19, 2005, USAPA took over on April 18, 2008 and this DOH language is preventing us from achieving a contract.

2.Reducing the 2/3rd’s requirement for Constitutional changes to a 3/5th’s or 60 percent requirement. All organizations need to modify their Constitutions from time to time and this will make it easier to make required modifications for the betterment of the organization.

3.Currently the Constitution allows the President to select Committee Members and we feel the BPR is better suited for this task so this section will be put forward for modification.

4.Three parties, the Company, the Representatives for the East and West pilots signed the Transition Agreement. USAPA is bound by this agreement and we will seek to memorialize that in the Constitution. That includes three West members to join three East members of the Negotiating (Advisory) Committee.

5.In the event of a Merger both sides are not properly represented therefore we will add an amendment to ensure the Merger Committee is staffed with an equal number of East and West Representatives.
These changes will go a long way to putting our past behind us and will enable USAPA to focus its energy and resources on achieving a much needed contract

Reformusapa.com has posted petitions that can be downloaded.

Active Three Fifths Amendment - will change all instances of two-thirds voting requirement to three-fifths or 60%.

Active DOH Amendment - will remove the DOH objective and will replace it with language that is general in nature in accordance with Federal Law.

Active Committee Oversight Amendment - will require the President to receive prior Board approval to appoint or remove any Committee Member. This further allows any Board member to nominate and the Board may approve any member in good standing for any Committee.

 

[N924PS]

I believe that safety is sacred and not a negotiating tactic. If that makes me a lowlife in your eyes then so be it.

Sorry to disappoint you. But I don't get it at all. I just think it it is wrong.

I am astounded and sickened by this latest tactic. I really can't believe any professional pilot would think this is a good idea. Are there no limits?

I continue to be embarrassed to be called a US Airways pilot.

I agree with you BLT.

While there are some issues that need to be addressed, using safety in an attempt to somehow embarass the company to a contract will fail and likely backfire on USAPA.

USAPA, if it ever had any credibilty or respect from the company in the first place, is losing it daily. Quite a disconnect exisits when the industry and the FAA recognize USAirways as one of the safest US airlines, while its pilot union screams otherwise.

Sadly, the current USAPA leaders have no limits. They garner no respect at the bargaining table, and this latest campaign will only serve to prolong negotations further.

 

[Beancounter]

Is there a different mentality with the chief pilots office on the east vs west? I've never felt forced to jeopardize safety while at US/AWA. If USAPA has a genuine concern with safety that is one thing, but if they are using this as leverage it is not only disgusting, but stupid. If you go around crying wolf, then in the future if there is a real problem the company won't take it seriously. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Pilot692]

Source: Reformusapa.com

Coming soon: A Constitutional Amendment to amend the USAPA Constitution. This is needed to ensure representation for all under USAPA. As a result of the current West/East division brought on by the misuse of the union structure, USAPA is no position of ever fulfilling its role as a Collective Bargaining Agent for all US Airways pilots.

Some of the items that will be put forward will be:

1.Removing DOH from the constitution and replace it with the McCaskill Bond language. This merger occurred on May 19, 2005, USAPA took over on April 18, 2008 and this DOH language is preventing us from achieving a contract.

2.Reducing the 2/3rd’s requirement for Constitutional changes to a 3/5th’s or 60 percent requirement. All organizations need to modify their Constitutions from time to time and this will make it easier to make required modifications for the betterment of the organization.

3.Currently the Constitution allows the President to select Committee Members and we feel the BPR is better suited for this task so this section will be put forward for modification.

4.Three parties, the Company, the Representatives for the East and West pilots signed the Transition Agreement. USAPA is bound by this agreement and we will seek to memorialize that in the Constitution. That includes three West members to join three East members of the Negotiating (Advisory) Committee.

5.In the event of a Merger both sides are not properly represented therefore we will add an amendment to ensure the Merger Committee is staffed with an equal number of East and West Representatives.
These changes will go a long way to putting our past behind us and will enable USAPA to focus its energy and resources on achieving a much needed contract

Reformusapa.com has posted petitions that can be downloaded.

Active Three Fifths Amendment - will change all instances of two-thirds voting requirement to three-fifths or 60%.

Active DOH Amendment - will remove the DOH objective and will replace it with language that is general in nature in accordance with Federal Law.

Active Committee Oversight Amendment - will require the President to receive prior Board approval to appoint or remove any Committee Member. This further allows any Board member to nominate and the Board may approve any member in good standing for any Committee.

DOA

 

[CactusPilot1]

DOA

I take it you don't want to sign a petition.

DOA? I take it you have been getting some legal advice from this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iGAAAo2v0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[767one]

Is there a different mentality with the chief pilots office on the east vs west? I've never felt forced to jeopardize safety while at US/AWA. If USAPA has a genuine concern with safety that is one thing, but if they are using this as leverage it is not only disgusting, but stupid. If you go around crying wolf, then in the future if there is a real problem the company won't take it seriously. Just my 2 cents.

Beancounter,


I have never had a problem with an east CP regarding safety. I do however have a problem with those above the level of CP. Several issues come to mind such as multiple mel's, mels that seem to not get fixed until the drop dead date, no IRO on some ta flights, no company recognition of the need for a protected rest time for international pilots who could end up together on a transatlantic flight with no IRO and no rest. No satcom on the 757/767. If I was to go through my logbook I could probably write all day but to me the worst safety problem is the push to be on time. The company puts so much pressure on all the gound personnel that sooner or later it will cause a problem. Many gate agents and ground personnel don't think twice (and some flight attendants) about just barging in the flight deck and blurting out their needs interrupting out cockpit routine. This last item is particularly problematic on a transatlantic flight without an iro to help fend off the disruptions in flight deck routine. Just because something has not caused an accident yet does not mean it is safe.

Regards,


Bob

 

[nevergiveup]

I believe that safety is sacred and not a negotiating tactic. If that makes me a lowlife in your eyes then so be it.

Sorry to disappoint you. But I don't get it at all. I just think it it is wrong.

I am astounded and sickened by this latest tactic. I really can't believe any professional pilot would think this is a good idea. Are there no limits?

I continue to be embarrassed to be called a US Airways pilot.

Give yourself a few more years of experience here...you'll change.