US Pilots Labor Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

A Kangaroo Court for USAPA's Founding Fathers. A Hearing With Charges USAPA Says Aren't Even True!

Update for May 11, 2011: A Kangaroo Court for USAPA's Founding Fathers. A Hearing With Charges USAPA Says Aren't Even True! This is a highly detailed Communication Product. It's not intended for the apathetic majority or those who choose not to follow what is happening to your career (via the failures of your Bargaining Agent). It's really not for those who have decided to ignore the rotten politics of USAPA, it is not for those who refuse to do any "Critical Thinking" about the direction and 'leadership' of the USAirways pilots and what our real problems are.

Love those pretty lanyards - Nothing says "Success" like a nice yellow lanyard.

See Story

 

[Piedmont1984]

I think that the Master Scab list which happens to contain James Ray's name casts too big a net. It's authors were certainly charged with great emotion when they crafted this list.

Prior to USAPA, James Ray contributed many years of volunteer work for ALPA on this property. He was also an AB320 senior check airman who was instrumental in starting up the AB320 program. He is a very sharp guy. So I don't think he washed out of any training program that CAL had to offer, but left on his own volition.

At the time he would have been in his early twenties. Which of us has not made questionable decisions when we were at that age and stage of life?

He may have come uncomfortably close to crossing a line, for reasons that only James knows, but he did not cross it - not figuratively or literally. Excoriating him on this forum serves no useful purpose.

We could have and may still end up working with hundreds of strike breakers at CAL, who are now full fledged ALPA MIGS, fully pardoned for their sins.

Lets keep things in perspective.

KV

 

[Pi brat]

"""I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations, America West, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. """


america west pilots, scum.

Sum,

I've not responded to your posts because of my frustration with some west posters, but I'm going to throw this out. I actually have several friends on the west and there in not a scab, drug runner, drunk flying pilot among them. The are professional pilots, and although we disagree on the Nic, we agree on most things. When you insult my friends you are insulting me.

I didn't like it when Jim and jettz called me a child molester. West pilots don't like it either. I think that's why you do it, but I don't think you are doing your cause any good with the method.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I think that the Master Scab list which happens to contain James Ray's name casts too big a net. It's authors were certainly charged with great emotion when they crafted this list.

He may have come uncomfortably close to crossing a line, for reasons that only James knows, but he did not cross it - not figuratively or literally. Excoriating him on this forum serves no useful purpose.

Lets keep things in perspective.

KV

KV,

What are your feelings about Suma, Nos or whoever he is painting America West pilots with a broad scab, scum brush?

I'd say excoriating Westies with his limited vocabulary on this forum serves no useful puropose.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Calling for Union Accountability and Answers on the LOA 93 Pay Rate "Unfreeze" Grievance Arbitration.

See Story

 

[Piedmont1984]

KV,

What are your feelings about Suma, Nos or whoever he is painting America West pilots with a broad scab, scum brush?

I'd say excoriating Westies with his limited vocabulary on this forum serves no useful puropose.

CactusPilot1

I respect the vast majority of west pilots, as well as the vast majority of east pilots. This forum has gone off the tracks. Too much emotion, too little supervision, too much anonymity - a recipe for acting well outside our normal character.

A casual observer would not be impressed with our conduct here.

KV

 

[CactusPilot1]

Sum,

I've not responded to your posts because of my frustration with some west posters, but I'm going to throw this out. I actually have several friends on the west and there in not a scab, drug runner, drunk flying pilot among them. The are professional pilots, and although we disagree on the Nic, we agree on most things. When you insult my friends you are insulting me.

I didn't like it when Jim and jettz called me a child molester. West pilots don't like it either. I think that's why you do it, but I don't think you are doing your cause any good with the method.

Well said, Pi. My thinking exactly. Even in a boxing ring, there are rules.

Thanks for noticing Nos hitting below the belt. B)

 

[CactusPilot1]

CactusPilot1

I respect the vast majority of west pilots, as well as the vast majority of east pilots. This forum has gone off the tracks. Too much emotion, too little supervision, too much anonymity - a recipe for acting well outside our normal character.

A casual observer would not be impressed with our conduct here.

KV

KV,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with your post for the most part. I don't agree with the supervision part, though. I like the fact moderators have let us debate without too much intervention. I'll use Pibrat as an example of self-moderating and applaud his post.

 

[cleardirect]

So what is your vision of getting this unity? Let's say the west comes out on top of this before we have a joint contract. Do you think the hard feelings over the "clowns, scabs, thief, accident leadng" etc is just going to evaporate and the east will join the west to fight the company?

Are you saying that if/when the west gets what we all agree to that the east is not going to fight the company to get a contract?

Do you think that the east pilots are without sin in this matter? Do you not think that after all of this that when the courts uphold arbitration that the west is not going to have hard feelings about the east and all that you guys have costs all us?

When the courts rule in favor of arbitration how much blame are you going to put on Cleary/usapa/yourselves?

 

[767jetz]

Hmmmmm........So, by your logic above, the 2 pilots that flew a charter plane for Spirit during their strike are NOT scabs. Even though ALPA labeled them as scabs, yet according to you, they are not. I bet those two guys are happy now, no longer being scabs according to you.

Please tell me what "line" "usapa scabs wish to cross". Are we on strike at LCC?



Are you even a MIGS?

Are you (and Nos) really this ignorant that the obvious must be spelled out? If AWA put their own airplane in Sydney to fly during the Ansett strike, that is not scabbing. The pilots of AWA were not on strike and those pilots were flying their own airplanes. The scabs that turned a wheel for Spirit during a legal strike are most certainly scabs. Most airlines have agreements with management that pilots can choose not to fly the struck work of another airline. But doing so is NOT considered scabbing by ANY union. Educate yourself and try again.

 

[Pi brat]

Are you saying that if/when the west gets what we all agree to that the east is not going to fight the company to get a contract?

Do you think that the east pilots are without sin in this matter? Do you not think that after all of this that when the courts uphold arbitration that the west is not going to have hard feelings about the east and all that you guys have costs all us?

When the courts rule in favor of arbitration how much blame are you going to put on Cleary/usapa/yourselves?

Hmmm....a group of pilots not getting what they want so they refuse to participate in getting a contract to prevent the other side from getting what they want. Naw, that would NEVER happen!

Have you guys ever considered the wisdom of having a contract in place before you win, so that there can be no further delay? I'm thinking no.

 

[767jetz]

I didn't like it when Jim and jettz called me a child molester. West pilots don't like it either. I think that's why you do it, but I don't think you are doing your cause any good with the method.

Exactly right. Thanks.

I for one refuse to engage directly with this poster because it serves no purpose. It changes nothing. It adds nothing to the conversation. It's not even an opinion on a current event. It's nothing more than flame bait.

For the record, this is the type of behavior that solicits the same response from others. It was toned down for a short period. Now it's back again. Eventually someone will take on the fight and ironically be blamed for starting it.

It won't change his spots, but thanks for speaking up anyway.

 

[767jetz]

Hmmm....a group of pilots not getting what they want so they refuse to participate in getting a contract to prevent the other side from getting what they want. Naw, that would NEVER happen!

Have you guys ever considered the wisdom of having a contract in place before you win, so that there can be no further delay? I'm thinking no.

I see your point. But if the LOA93 grievance is finally resolved in the company's favor, and some legal action causes the results of binding arbitration to actually be binding with no other option available, then IMO it changes the landscape. The east does not need to reverse course. Only a small number of east pilots are needed to kick USAPA and their leadership to the curb and present a contract for a vote. Then only a small number of east pilots need to side with the west and vote it in. With the 2 above issues resolved to finality, I think it's a pretty fair assumption that enough will choose to vote for more money and better quality of life. Maybe not those close to upgrade, but certainly those who are not.

 

[cleardirect]

Hmmm....a group of pilots not getting what they want so they refuse to participate in getting a contract to prevent the other side from getting what they want. Naw, that would NEVER happen!

Have you guys ever considered the wisdom of having a contract in place before you win, so that there can be no further delay? I'm thinking no.

Hmmm....a group of pilots not getting what they want (East pilots and DOH)so they refuse to participate in getting a contract (East pilots withdraw from JNC) to prevent the other side (the west)from getting what they want(some benefit from the merger). Naw, that would NEVER happen!

Have you guys ever considered the wisdom of having a contract in place before you win, so that there can be no further delay? I'm thinking no.

Have you considered the wisdom of dropping the motion to dismiss? Get to a quick trial and get an answer to the companies DJ?
Have you considered accepting the Nicolau, getting a contract and going to court later so you can win in court without any further delay?
I am thinking no!

Answer this. How is the west delaying a contract? What does a control does a minority group of PHX pilot have to delay the mighty usapa?

What were we told from the very beginning? usapa and the east pilots don't need the west for anything.You east guys are the ones with all of the experience show us how it is done.It is 3 east NAC members at the table not the west.

 

[luvn737s]

So what is your vision of getting this unity? Let's say the west comes out on top of this before we have a joint contract. Do you think the hard feelings over the "clowns, scabs, thief, accident leadng" etc are just going to evaporate and the east will join the west to fight the company?

No, I think if the east took the initiative to recall Cleary and Mowery and a up-till-now silent majority spoke loudly and clearly that they were not going to continue to allow Cleary to divide the airline, you would see a groundswell of west support.

You should expect the status quo to yield the status quo.