US Pilots Labor Discussion

[88 B.T.D.]

Free bird,
Did you reread the TA yet? What it really says is no furlough bump active. I.e. If nic were implemented your furloughed could not bump active East. They would have to wait for an opening.

 

[PullUp]

The funny thing is that they want recognition and respect from USAirways management, yet they attack and manufacture crisis after crisis like a bunch of attention starved school girls. Cant have it both ways. USAPA has been going down the wrong road from day 1. And you seem to be supporting them.

USAPA = Losing

Ok..so please elucidate on the correct path? We know it includes the nic. But, what else?

 

[Freebird]

Free bird,
Did you reread the TA yet? What it really says is no furlough bump active. I.e. If nic were implemented your furloughed could not bump active East. They would have to wait for an opening.

Post the rest of it.

 

[Freebird]

Ok..so please elucidate on the correct path? We know it includes the nic. But, what else?

Unity.

USAPA will continue to wallow in the doldrums of obscurity until they achieve unity among the pilots. USAPA is anti-unity. Another thing, USAPA should stop writing the updates complaining about how poor off they are when they dug themselves into the hole.

Todays Update:

The deeper we get into negotiations, the more rhetoric we hear from the Company about how "unique" it is, and to a degree we have to agree. For example, they seem to be uniquely unable to make money. They are uniquely unable to run an efficient operation. US Airways, alone in the industry and in their infinite wisdom, is the only carrier that isn't hedging (hedging requires an investment in the carrier; they'd rather 'invest' in management bonuses). They say they are uniquely unable to pay competitive salaries. And perhaps worst of all, they have a unique ability to show just how much contempt they have for their employees and how unconcerned they are for our welfare.

With regard to the last points on what this management group thinks about the pilot group, we won't repeat it here, but we invite you to click here to read the CLT Vice Chairman's Special Update on pilot pushing. Click here to read just how well Management treated one of our pilots who recently lost her medical due to a fumes incident. These are just two of the most recent examples; we've all had our own experiences.

Let's take a look for a moment at a quick comparison between the darling of the industry (Southwest) and El Numero Last (LCC -- even the Company's stock symbol is a joke). Using rough figures, SWA pays each of its 2,950 Captains about $90K per year more than US Airways. That's about $265 million more per year in Captain wages. They also pay their 2,950 First Officers about $40K per year more than US Airways. That's about $118 million more per year in First Officer wages, for a rough total of $383 million dollars more that SWA pays in pilot payroll than US Airways. Then, let's look at ancillary fees. Last year, US Airways collected about $514 million in bag and other ancillary fees from its passengers. As SWA actually values its passengers (and employees, imagine that!), it doesn't charge bag fees. So let's add this up: $383 million in pilot wages not paid by LCC, plus $514 million in fees collected, for a total cost/revenue advantage of $897 million. Yet US Airways, under the expert guidance of this skilled management team, is uniquely unable to remain profitable. They say they can't pay even industry-standard wages but, finally, *ARE* uniquely able to continue to award significant bonuses to themselves while the carrier languishes. Unique indeed.To get a feel for what it's like to work for a real airline, one that values its employees even more than it values its passengers, one that continues to seek out new opportunities and grow even in down cycles, one that runs a highly efficient operation, one that is highly regarded by both its passengers and employees, one that works proactively WITH its pilots rather than against -- leading in turn to a pilot group that works with their management team to the benefit of all -- see the attachment that the Southwest pilot group sent the incoming AirTran pilots welcoming them to the airline.

Once you've read the attachment, ask yourself -- are you willing to continue working for the lowest pay and worst working conditions in the industry? Have you had enough yet?USAPA Communications


USAPA = Enjoying the fruits of your labor.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Post the rest of it.

It's on Wings under flight ops. The only other section you may be misunderstanding is when a furloughed pilot from either side went over they were junior to the other side while there.

 

[jie7114]

Has there been a discussion on this thread about the West supporting USAPA in their efforts to get a contract, even one with DOH, so as to facilitate DFR II. It seems that this might be a way to move beyond this stalemate, and the West would still get to file their DFR II and more than likely force the Nic on the East because we would already have a ratified contract at that time.

I mention this because the longer this drags on the less incentive the junior east pilots, and by junior I mean anyone who has been hired on the east within the last 6 years or anyone who will be hired over the next 4 to 5, have to support a new contract for at least the next 10 to 15 years. The reason I say this is obvious if you are a junior east pilot, the attrition on the east will provide a much more lucrative pay raise then a new contract will, with another 1500 pilots coming in on top of us.

I'm not saying that I don't want a new contract in fact quite the opposite, and I don't really benefit from DOH. I just want to make sure that we understand what is going to occur here over the next 4-5 year in relation to attrition. I know that much has been said about the attrition on the east, but the reality is that 900 pilots within 4 years is allot of movement. So any ideas that might move us forward will be good for both groups in the long run.

 

[BoeingBoy]

but the reality is that 900 pilots within 4 years is allot of movement.

Try 615 age 65 retirements in the next 5 years (actually a little over 5 - that's through the end of May 2016). Take out those on medical disability and you're looking at about 400 tops. That "lot of movement" could get a newhire that was recently recalled a line in the right seat, depending on equipment.

You need to stop listening to crew room rumors.

As far as the West supporting a contract containing DOH, do you realize what the first filing $eham would make in DFRII if that happened? A request that the case be dismissed because the West pilots supported a contract containing DOH, so obviously thought it was fair.

Jim

 

[jie7114]

Try 615 age 65 retirements in the next 5 years (actually a little over 5 - that's through the end of May 2016). Take out those on medical disability and you're looking at about 400 tops. That "lot of movement" could get a newhire that was recently recalled a line in the right seat, depending on equipment.

You need to stop listening to crew room rumors.

As far as the West supporting a contract containing DOH, do you realize what the first filing $eham would make in DFRII if that happened? A request that the case be dismissed because the West pilots supported a contract containing DOH, so obviously thought it was fair.

Jim

I'm not saying that they vote for it I'm saying that they support USAPA's efforts to get a contract. They should all vote no for that very reason. The contract will pass because they will have more than 50% of the pilots vote for it, boom DFR II. It's all about moving forward.

 

[luvn737s]

I'm not saying that they vote for it I'm saying that they support USAPA's efforts to get a contract. They should all vote no for that very reason. The contract will pass because they will have more than 50% of the pilots vote for it, boom DFR II. It's all about moving forward.

Can you explain how the minority is preventing the majority from presenting a DOH contract to it's members? And then, explain how you can support such an inept organization that mires itself in petty skirmishes and all-out warfare on it's own members.

When you look carefully, you will see how the cabal that runs htis sham of a union is only out to extort union dues and cement themselves in power through lies and intimidation.

Do you think for a minute such an organization is capable of negotiating an industry standard (much less "industry leading") contract? And if they can't, why are you paying them?

PS- Doug Parker knows USAPA better than any pilot does. They are way too easy to manipulate.

 

[luvn737s]

Voting 'no' with ALPA in charge would have led to a nic cramdown. The PHL LEC was taken over by national. With a little pressure, the CLT and DCA LEC's would have caved.
Cheers.

No, The PHL LEC was using ALPA facilities and property to help set up USAPA. The entire upper echelon of USAPA was so corrupt from the very beginning they lost all perspective on right and wrong, a legacy that is perpetuated until today.

ALPA did get one thing right in this whole mess- they helped give the PHL LEC some perspective, however little and however late.

Abandoning USAPA would prompt management to negotiate with their more mature successor, and you would at least be able to vote NO on a Nic contract. USAPA is such a joke that no one will waste time negotiating with them so you keep paying 2% of your measly salary so you get to upgrade at exactly the same rate you would under the NIC. Only for less money.

Pretty clever, you USAPA guys!

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Try 615 age 65 retirements in the next 5 years (actually a little over 5 - that's through the end of May 2016). Take out those on medical disability and you're looking at about 400 tops. That "lot of movement" could get a newhire that was recently recalled a line in the right seat, depending on equipment.

You need to stop listening to crew room rumors.

As far as the West supporting a contract containing DOH, do you realize what the first filing $eham would make in DFRII if that happened? A request that the case be dismissed because the West pilots supported a contract containing DOH, so obviously thought it was fair.

Jim

Actually try in excess of 750 by the end of 2016. Give the age of the airline and the rate which active pilots are going on to LTD, that number is likely to be 700+.

 

[jie7114]

Can you explain how the minority is preventing the majority from presenting a DOH contract to it's members? And then, explain how you can support such an inept organization that mires itself in petty skirmishes and all-out warfare on it's own members.

When you look carefully, you will see how the cabal that runs htis sham of a union is only out to extort union dues and cement themselves in power through lies and intimidation.

Do you think for a minute such an organization is capable of negotiating an industry standard (much less "industry leading") contract? And if they can't, why are you paying them?

PS- Doug Parker knows USAPA better than any pilot does. They are way too easy to manipulate.

Listen I'm not defending USAPA I'll be the first to admit that the inmates are running the asylum up there. I'm talking about moving forward. The west wants the Nic, the fastest way to the Nic is DFR II. The East wants a new contract with DOH, the fastest way to that is with the wests support for a new contract, and the leverage that it would allow the group as a whole to exert on the company, which again leads us to the west supporting but not voting for a new contract in order to facilitate DFR II. I have little or nothing to gain either way Nic, DOH, doesn't make a big difference to me personally, but moving forward that's good for the whole group.

 

[luvn737s]

Personally, I will vote NO, but I cannot be certain that my decision will be the prevailing one.

Can you imagine 50%+1 of the entire pilot group saying, "Nope, I'd rather stay stuck in the same mess for a few more years" by voting NO? Do pilots in general choose to sit idly by in times of crisis and do nothing, rather than try alternatives that will lead to success?

The so-called solidarity that converted adolescent emotion into a sham of a union can't be counted on 3 years later to carry the vote for continued quagmire.

 

[Eastisleast]

Hey East pilots, take a trip over to the dear leaders website and take a look at the latest PHX update. Does anyone on here approve the removal of Mark Burman from the security comm? Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Hey East pilots, take a trip over to the dear leaders website and take a look at the latest PHX update. Does anyone on here approve the removal of Mark Burman from the safety comm? Thanks in advance for your comments.

Is that the same Mark Burman who was picketing with East pilots not too long ago?

So much for any attempt at unity.

Nice, move USAPA.....