US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

that's mature... for a 63 year old...

Like all the nonsense from the East is from youngsters....

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry Pi;
I was in a little bit of a hurry when posting that quip. Here's an addendum: Apparently the DOH is so important, AND Leonidas's claims are so baseless that USAPA was compelled to use the same graph TWICE showing Eric Ferguson's progress on some sort of chart. This chart uses his age as one of the baseline criteria.

What Eric's age has to do with the evasion of a final & binding award I do not understand. Since I lack that understanding, that is perhaps why USAPA put the graph in TWICE (I still don't get it??).

Another funny thing is that Mowrey's quote of "The Nicolau Award would immediately and permanently impede...." must now be taken for fact, but the his & Cleary's quote on the front of B3 of "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts..." is to be considered to be "quoted incompletely and taken out of context".

Here is the EXACT quote: "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts." While I will agree that the quote was not complete, it most assuredly is COMPLETELY in context.

Here's another little nugget from the author of USAPA's reply: "Now for a bit of basic deductive reasoning: Doug Parker became CEO of US Airways in 2001 after being in senior management since 1985." Doug Parker actually joined America West in June 1995 as senior vice president and chief financial officer. His responsibilities were expanded in 1997 to include schedule planning and revenue management. In May 2000, Parker was named president of America West Airlines, and in December of that year he assumed the additional title of chief operating officer. He was elected chairman, president and chief executive officer of America West in September 2001. He was later named president and chief executive officer of US Airways Group upon the merger of US Airways and America West Airlines in September 2005.

I could waste my time explaining to you USAPA's weak attempt to reply to the truths in the Leonidas brochures, but I would rather go and have a tall cool drink. Informed is armed, don't take Cleary & Mowrey's word on everything.....it will only ultimately disappoint you.

I hope you enjoyed your cool drink.

Now, let me see if maybe I can provide an answer to the question of what Eric's age has to do with anything. I'm guessing, since I had nothing to do with the production of the brochure, but I think I might be right.

You do understand the graph, right? It shows Eric's relative position as his career advances, with DOH, Nic and AWA standalone presented. At the bottom it shows his age. If the bottom had the corresponding year that Eric turned that age instead of his age, would it change the data? No, it wouldn't. So, why might they have used he age instead of the year, especially since it has seemed to confuse so many people and really make one circus lover mad? I'm thinking they were playing to their intended audience, the older east pilots. Without them having to do the math it shows them how the Nic advances Eric so much more rapidly than either DOH, or AWA standalone, and makes him better off(?) than they are at their current age and as they get older. You think?

Again, whatever the reason, Eric's age vs. a year at the bottom doesn't change the curves.

You don't need to tell me about blindly believing Clear, Mowery, Ferguson, Mckee, Parker, Kirby, Obama, Holmes or pretty much anyone else.

 

[Freebird]

I hope you enjoyed your cool drink.

Now, let me see if maybe I can provide an answer to the question of what Eric's age has to do with anything. I'm guessing, since I had nothing to do with the production of the brochure, but I think I might be right.

You do understand the graph, right? It shows Eric's relative position as his career advances, with DOH, Nic and AWA standalone presented. At the bottom it shows his age. If the bottom had the corresponding year that Eric turned that age instead of his age, would it change the data? No, it wouldn't. So, why might they have used he age instead of the year, especially since it has seemed to confuse so many people and really make one circus lover mad? I'm thinking they were playing to their intended audience, the older east pilots. Without them having to do the math it shows them how the Nic advances Eric so much more rapidly than either DOH, or AWA standalone, and makes him better off(?) than they are at their current age and as they get older. You think?

Again, whatever the reason, Eric's age vs. a year at the bottom doesn't change the curves.

You don't need to tell me about blindly believing Clear, Mowery, Ferguson, Mckee, Parker, Kirby, Obama, Holmes or pretty much anyone else.

Erics age is irrelevant. Upgrade at AWA was 7 years. What was it back East? USAPA is trying to recapture the career of an East pilot at the Expense of the West. Your MEC agreed to binding arbitration and the agreement stated that ALL furloughed puilots would return Junior to/under ALL Active pilots, period. It's not for discussion or negotiation, it's solved. Sorry you cannot understand that? It's costing you a lot Pi to support the thugs of USAPA.


USAPA = What's your excuse?

 

[Pi brat]

Erics age is irrelevant. Upgrade at AWA was 7 years. What was it back East? USAPA is trying to recapture the career of an East pilot at the Expense of the West. Your MEC agreed to binding arbitration and the agreement stated that ALL furloughed puilots would return Junior to/under ALL Active pilots, period. It's not for discussion or negotiation, it's solved. Sorry you cannot understand that? It's costing you a lot Pi to support the thugs of USAPA.


USAPA = What's your excuse?

When I got hired at PI upgrade was running abut two and a half years. Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. One of those life lessons for ya.

If it is is solved why have we been talking about it so long? Why is the bottom east 737 captain equal to about the bottom 15-18% of the west list? Why are there still west furloughed pilots? Why are there no west A330 or 76I captains or F/Os? Why?

This thing is costing us all, but I see no workable solution out there other than letting the legal course run. Saying "Get over it" just isn't getting it done either, is it?

 

[Barrister]

Ok fodase, show us. You come up with a graph that has the true data that shows Eric's progression with the Nic, DOH, and AWA standalone. I will give you the chance to prove it and I will listen to you.

I can't tell you that I am 100% certain that the USAPA graph is correct because I didn't make it and I don't have the data. But..........I have seen the similar graph for me and I can assure you that it was correct.

Here could be a reason that Eric is better under the USAPA chart. You notice that at the beginning he is worse? He is worse because even though he is part of a bigger group, more people go ahead of him than behind, so he loses relative position. Now, as we go forward in time(and his age-funny how the go along, huh?), the east attrition kicks in, mostly the ones senior to him, and his relative position moves up. He is a part of a bigger group, and more senior east people leave ahead of him than would ha
ve on an AWA only list, so........his relative position is better with BOTH DOH and Nic as time goes by than he would be AWA stand alone, just the Nic is waaaay better right now.

Does that help?
[/quote

Age is mostly irrelevant......unless you want to demonstrate the extreme unfainess of placing someone who has been here half the time senior to someone else
who has been here twice as long ... who is also 15-20 years older..BUT WE DON'T CARE IF YOU CLOWNS DON'T GET IT ESPECIALLYYOU FODASE

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cactusboy53]

Small correction. Technically we would be speaking of AWA's present (May 2005), not its past.

So when the courts uphold the Nicolau as the only seniority list.....then we sing Kum By Ya and march together to a joint contract?

 

[Freebird]

When I got hired at PI upgrade was running abut two and a half years. Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. One of those life lessons for ya.If it is is solved why have we been talking about it so long? Why is the bottom east 737 captain equal to about the bottom 15-18% of the west list? Why are there still west furloughed pilots? Why are there no west A330 or 76I captains or F/Os? Why?

This thing is costing us all, but I see no workable solution out there other than letting the legal course run. Saying "Get over it" just isn't getting it done either, is it?

Good, we agree. "Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. One of those life lessons for ya." USAPA fails to grasp that concept. Your attrition is NO guarantee, One of those life lessons for ya.

Your pilot group is comprised of hard learners and slow learners. Which one are you?

USAPA = Wasting everyones time.

 

[sumadarson]

The alpa union pilot contract expert is busy now i guess. The Carnac of pilots. He was on here daily telling us how it should be done.

"Once I built a railroad..,,,,,,,,,,..........."

"Coombiaaaa, coombiaaaa......,........"


767jetz

 

[Pi brat]

Your pilot group is comprised of hard learners and slow learners. Which one are you?

USAPA = Wasting everyones time.

That is just an ignorant statement. Got any other stereotypical generalizations you would like to make? Maybe about women or minorities? People like you do Usapa's job for them.

 

[Freebird]

That is just an ignorant statement. Got any other stereotypical generalizations you would like to make? Maybe about women or minorities? People like you do Usapa's job for them.

If the truth hurts, then so be it. Kool-Aid drinkers make USAPA's job easy. Thirsty? Stay on task, we're not talking about women or minorities, just the truth.

Ignorance is found in those who support USAPA and it's inability to honor binding arbitration.

USAPA = We suck. We know.

 

[sumadarson]

jetz poster, waz SUP

Excerpt from the May 3, united alpa airline pilots update.

""Pilots from United and Continental today marked the one-year anniversary of the announced merger between their two airlines by conducting informational picketing system wide. Pilots, carrying the above two picket signs, showed their solidarity throughout the day at LaGuardia, Washington Dulles, Cleveland, Chicago O'Hare, Houston, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles.



In the more than 200 picketing events United pilots have conducted in the past four years, today's picketing across the system produced a record level of participation.

One year after the announcement of the merger, the pilots for both airlines are still negotiating for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. United management has stated in its Go Forward plan that it wants all labor contracts completed by the end of the year.

“There is no reason to delay resolving the contract,” said United MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse “The pilots of both United and Continental have made huge sacrifices in the last decade that allowed this merger to take place. These sacrifices cannot be overlooked or forgotten. It's time for a contract."

Captain Morse, her fellow officers and the United MEC want to express their gratitude to all the United and Continental pilots who came out to join the picket, and to demonstrate our unity and resolve. Together, we will get the contract we deserve.""

 

[sumadarson]

jetz, You acted like the expert on here. Shirley, you must have been joking.

jetz poster, waz SUP

Excerpt from the May 3, united alpa airline pilots update.

""Pilots from United and Continental today marked the one-year anniversary of the announced merger between their two airlines by conducting informational picketing system wide. Pilots, carrying the above two picket signs, showed their solidarity throughout the day at LaGuardia, Washington Dulles, Cleveland, Chicago O'Hare, Houston, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles.



In the more than 200 picketing events United pilots have conducted in the past four years, today's picketing across the system produced a record level of participation.

One year after the announcement of the merger, the pilots for both airlines are still negotiating for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. United management has stated in its Go Forward plan that it wants all labor contracts completed by the end of the year.

“There is no reason to delay resolving the contract,” said United MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse “The pilots of both United and Continental have made huge sacrifices in the last decade that allowed this merger to take place. These sacrifices cannot be overlooked or forgotten. It's time for a contract."

Captain Morse, her fellow officers and the United MEC want to express their gratitude to all the United and Continental pilots who came out to join the picket, and to demonstrate our unity and resolve. Together, we will get the contract we deserve.""

 

[cleardirect]

I hope you enjoyed your cool drink.

Now, let me see if maybe I can provide an answer to the question of what Eric's age has to do with anything. I'm guessing, since I had nothing to do with the production of the brochure, but I think I might be right.

You do understand the graph, right? It shows Eric's relative position as his career advances, with DOH, Nic and AWA standalone presented. At the bottom it shows his age. If the bottom had the corresponding year that Eric turned that age instead of his age, would it change the data? No, it wouldn't. So, why might they have used he age instead of the year, especially since it has seemed to confuse so many people and really make one circus lover mad? I'm thinking they were playing to their intended audience, the older east pilots. Without them having to do the math it shows them how the Nic advances Eric so much more rapidly than either DOH, or AWA standalone, and makes him better off(?) than they are at their current age and as they get older. You think?

Again, whatever the reason, Eric's age vs. a year at the bottom doesn't change the curves.

You don't need to tell me about blindly believing Clear, Mowery, Ferguson, Mckee, Parker, Kirby, Obama, Holmes or pretty much anyone else.

Without the raw data that graph is just colored lines with no meaning.

The place to start would be the lists.

In 2007 EF was 1619 of 1853 87.3%
DOH makes EF to be 6347 of 6676 95.0%
But we cannot leave out the 1700 FURLOUGHED east pilots. The east brought 3176 (Monda) active pilots and the west brought 1853 (O’Dell) for a total of 5029. That means that by DOH EF’s true position would be.
Active DOH 6347 of 5029 126%. Transferring the east furloughs to EF. Just attrition EF would be about 47 years old before he would be above the furlough line. Now whether he is furloughed or just rides the bottom as east furloughs are returned ahead of EF. So his career stagnates at the very least until 2012 using DOH. In reality EF is 5556 of 5029 or 110% not the false statement of 80% like the usapa propaganda tries to sell. If usapa were to steal the Nicolau and west jobs it would 2017 before EF even gets back to where he would have been stand alone.

Even the east MEC’s own numbers guy said the Nicolau delays the east 2 years max. DOH delays the west about 10 years before we see the first benefit from this merger. Beginning to understand now?

 

[Freebird]

Without the raw data that graph is just colored lines with no meaning.

The place to start would be the lists.

In 2007 EF was 1619 of 1853 87.3%
DOH makes EF to be 6347 of 6676 95.0%
But we cannot leave out the 1700 FURLOUGHED east pilots. The east brought 3176 (Monda) active pilots and the west brought 1853 (O’Dell) for a total of 5029. That means that by DOH EF’s true position would be.
Active DOH 6347 of 5029 126%. Transferring the east furloughs to EF. Just attrition EF would be about 47 years old before he would be above the furlough line. Now whether he is furloughed or just rides the bottom as east furloughs are returned ahead of EF. So his career stagnates at the very least until 2012 using DOH. In reality EF is 5556 of 5029 or 110% not the false statement of 80% like the usapa propaganda tries to sell. If usapa were to steal the Nicolau and west jobs it would 2017 before EF even gets back to where he would have been stand alone.

Even the east MEC’s own numbers guy said the Nicolau delays the east 2 years max. DOH delays the west about 10 years before we see the first benefit from this merger. Beginning to understand now?

When you're blinded by greed, you cannot begin to see what you're missing.


USAPA = Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[BoeingBoy]

jetz poster, waz SUP

Excerpt from the May 3, united alpa airline pilots update.

SWAPA press release:

SWAPA Persistence for Alternative Screening Leads to New Program

Alternative screening makes airport security more efficient for crew members and passengers

(DALLAS) — Today the Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association announced that the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) will begin testing an airline crewmember screening system in seven preliminary airports. After a 90-day test period, the program may be expanded to additional airports. This new system will enhance the verification process for professional flight crews while increasing the efficiency for all that depend on air travel. The test program is projected to occur at the following airports: Minneapolis – St. Paul (MSP), Boston Logan (BOS), Miami International (MIA), Seattle-Tacoma (SEA), Chicago O’Hare (ORD), Dulles International (IAD) and Phoenix Sky-Harbor (PHX).

SWAPA has been working closely with Southwest Airlines, the Coalition of Airline Pilots (CAPA), the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), the Air Transport Association (ATA), the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and other agencies to make this alternative screening process more efficient and effective. With the implementation of this new system, Southwest flight crews can access their aircraft and report for duty much faster than under the current system. This new system also allows the traveling public to not be encumbered by multiple airline crews congesting the security lines at airports.

“More efficient, updated and secure systems for commercial aviation are long overdue and we are proud to partner with regulators, Southwest Airlines and other organizations to improve the screening process for all professional flight crews,” said Captain Steve Chase, President of the Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association. “Our flight crews are professionals and trusted agents and should be permitted to have greater ease of movement about the airport while on duty,” added Chase.

Jim