US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Why are you answering me?

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

If you weren't so hung up on the graph having Eric's age instead of a date you would see that it shows the shift of relative position moving from east to west going forward. They should have shown an '89 east hire and you would have seen his curve going in the opposite direction. Looks like EF hits 45% at about 47 with Nic, 50 with DOH, and 53 AWA stand alone. I didn't make the graph so I don't know about you point of using a different date and if the AWA stand alone includes furloughed pilots or not. Unlike AOL's chart, the USAPA graph shows the effect of Nic, DOH,and individual stand alone.

You can say it doesn't matter. You can say it's fair. You can say that it is a product of an agreed upon process and it is what we should live with. Those are all your opinions and you have the right to say them, but you cannot say it does not happen with the Nic and some at AOL tried to say that it doesn't happen, or to downplay the significance.

No pilot at either airline brought anything to the merger except a place in line. The east furloughees had a place in line that no one could step in front of. Nic reshuffled the line. 9 out of 10 east think he got it wrong. 9 out of 10 west think he got it right. Since the east was bigger and decided to "appeal", we will have to wait for the higher authorities, or other events, to show us the way.

See ya, have a great rest of the week and weekend.

I hope you keep that in mind for the next merger.

Because the next merger. East pilots will be the smaller group. I will enjoy watching you have the "appeal" shoved down your throat.

 

[Pi brat]

I hope you keep that in mind for the next merger.

Because the next merger. East pilots will be the smaller group. I will enjoy watching you have the "appeal" shoved down your throat.

It's a question I've asked a lot of people, with no real answer given. Good luck with the viewing. I guess throat better than somewhere else?

 

[Freebird]

I don't think DP gives a rat's patootie about anything but his bank account.

What contract??? The "Kirby"? If you think this company and it's investors want a contract with the pilots OR the F/As, you're dreamin.

Driver <_<

Then you agree that that USAPA will continue to be ineffective as long as it chooses to alienate the West pilots.

USAPA's Strike Committee Update is laughable: "We are enduring an unprecedented level of stress right now. For many of us, bankruptcy, foreclosure, divorce and even suicide are now a part of the vocabulary of being a pilot at US Airways. Life sure has changed. The blatant and vicious attacks on our profession will likely continue until we, the pilots, stand up to corporate tyranny.

We all know that we are the finest, most experienced and skilled pilots in the industry. Why on Earth should we be willing to accept anything less than industry-standard wages and working conditions? Are Southwest pilots better than us? How about AirTran, and the countless other carriers that make significantly more money and are treated with much greater respect and working conditions?"

1. You've brought the stress upon yourself. 2. It's not 1998 the airline landscape has changed. 3. USAPA has no power to stand up to Parker other than an occasional media blitz or a terse letter (powerless) 4. USAPA is keeping you at industry-low wages (see above and below) 5. Why does the East expect Industry-standard wages and working conditions when they support an Industy-LOW "union"?


Without Unity, USAPA is powerless to achieve anything of value to its members. USAPA primary job is to represent ALL pilots and get a contract. Instead of desperetely wasting its resources hoping to avoid the NIC.

Indecision is a decision. It is a decision to paralyze and confuse those around you. It is a decision to paralyze because when people don’t know what to do some will do nothing. This inaction causes your followers to lose faith in your leadership. It is also decision to confuse because in the absence of clear direction some people will move in different directions. The ensuing chaos leads to a crisis of leadership. Make a decision. Or a decision will be made for you. (Authored by Alex Baez)


USAPA = Ineffective, rudderless, impotent, laughable by choice.

 

[Al Legheny]

It's a question I've asked a lot of people, with no real answer given. Good luck with the viewing. I guess throat better than somewhere else?

Speaking of Mergers.....This little item selected from an article in the Charlotte Observer.

Seth Kaplan, who publishes Aviation Weekly, said a merger down the road
makes some sense.

"The fact that they're interested in it makes it more likely," Kaplan said.
"The problem you have to ask is, what does US Airways add? And as they
themselves know, they don't have the best airport real estate.

"US Airways does a pretty good job, but what they have is limited. Nobody is
looking for a hub in Phoenix," Kaplan said. US Airways' lack of Pacific
flights is also a potential deterrent.

 

[cleardirect]

Speaking of Mergers.....This little item selected from an article in the Charlotte Observer.

Seth Kaplan, who publishes Aviation Weekly, said a merger down the road
makes some sense.

"The fact that they're interested in it makes it more likely," Kaplan said.
"The problem you have to ask is, what does US Airways add? And as they
themselves know, they don't have the best airport real estate.

"US Airways does a pretty good job, but what they have is limited. Nobody is
looking for a hub in Phoenix," Kaplan said. US Airways' lack of Pacific
flights is also a potential deterrent.

From the same piece.

Any merger could have huge consequences for Charlotte, where US Airways has its largest hub, with nearly 90 percent of the airport's flights and 6,800 employees. Next week, US Airways adds direct flights to Madrid and Dublin from Charlotte.

But consolidation with another airline could put the Charlotte hub at risk.

 

[Al Legheny]

From the same piece.

"Touche...Take that Red Baron..."

Parker said Charlotte is "an extremely important part of the US Airways network, and always will be." Since America West's merger with US Airways, the airline has added flights in Charlotte, and cut flights out of Phoenix, which had been an America West hub.

"I can't say enough great things about US Airways' view of Charlotte as to growth," Parker said. "We'd like to see that continue."

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/05/05/2272612/merger-talk-still-simmers-at-us.html#ixzz1LW1E3f3W

 

[cactusboy53]

Age discrimination? That's a new one, how do you figure that one?

Sorry Pi;
I was in a little bit of a hurry when posting that quip. Here's an addendum: Apparently the DOH is so important, AND Leonidas's claims are so baseless that USAPA was compelled to use the same graph TWICE showing Eric Ferguson's progress on some sort of chart. This chart uses his age as one of the baseline criteria.

What Eric's age has to do with the evasion of a final & binding award I do not understand. Since I lack that understanding, that is perhaps why USAPA put the graph in TWICE (I still don't get it??).

Another funny thing is that Mowrey's quote of "The Nicolau Award would immediately and permanently impede...." must now be taken for fact, but the his & Cleary's quote on the front of B3 of "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts..." is to be considered to be "quoted incompletely and taken out of context".

Here is the EXACT quote: "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts." While I will agree that the quote was not complete, it most assuredly is COMPLETELY in context.

Here's another little nugget from the author of USAPA's reply: "Now for a bit of basic deductive reasoning: Doug Parker became CEO of US Airways in 2001 after being in senior management since 1985." Doug Parker actually joined America West in June 1995 as senior vice president and chief financial officer. His responsibilities were expanded in 1997 to include schedule planning and revenue management. In May 2000, Parker was named president of America West Airlines, and in December of that year he assumed the additional title of chief operating officer. He was elected chairman, president and chief executive officer of America West in September 2001. He was later named president and chief executive officer of US Airways Group upon the merger of US Airways and America West Airlines in September 2005.

I could waste my time explaining to you USAPA's weak attempt to reply to the truths in the Leonidas brochures, but I would rather go and have a tall cool drink. Informed is armed, don't take Cleary & Mowrey's word on everything.....it will only ultimately disappoint you.

 

[fodase]

If you weren't so hung up on the graph having Eric's age instead of a date you would see that it shows the shift of relative position moving from east to west going forward. They should have shown an '89 east hire and you would have seen his curve going in the opposite direction. Looks like EF hits 45% at about 47 with Nic, 50 with DOH, and 53 AWA stand alone. I didn't make the graph so I don't know about you point of using a different date and if the AWA stand alone includes furloughed pilots or not. Unlike AOL's chart, the USAPA graph shows the effect of Nic, DOH,and individual stand alone.

You can say it doesn't matter. You can say it's fair. You can say that it is a product of an agreed upon process and it is what we should live with. Those are all your opinions and you have the right to say them, but you cannot say it does not happen with the Nic and some at AOL tried to say that it doesn't happen, or to downplay the significance.

No pilot at either airline brought anything to the merger except a place in line. The east furloughees had a place in line that no one could step in front of. Nic reshuffled the line. 9 out of 10 east think he got it wrong. 9 out of 10 west think he got it right. Since the east was bigger and decided to "appeal", we will have to wait for the higher authorities, or other events, to show us the way.

See ya, have a great rest of the week and weekend.

You dumb clown, I am saying that chart is a LIE, a verifiable lie at that. What on God's green earth does a pilots AGE and percentile have to do with a freakin seniority list? Think about it clown, how is it possible that Eric. is better off with thousands of extra pilots above him in the usapa chart? That is why you freakin lying scabs won't come up with the data used. That chart was done by usapa for dfr1 and your scum bag lawyer was going to use that chart , but when he was told how usapa derived the chart he withdrew it immediately. Clowns.

 

[KTM300]

You dumb clown, I am saying that chart is a LIE, a verifiable lie at that. What on God's green earth does a pilots AGE and percentile have to do with a freakin seniority list? Think about it clown, how is it possible that Eric. is better off with thousands of extra pilots above him in the usapa chart? That is why you freakin lying scabs won't come up with the data used. That chart was done by usapa for dfr1 and your scum bag lawyer was going to use that chart , but when he was told how usapa derived the chart he withdrew it immediately. Clowns.

You have a bad attitude boy! None the less...Though age has no real bearing on seniority, age and seniority ARE congruent. Surely even you, Desiree, can see and understand that.

 

[fodase]

You have a bad attitude boy! None the less...Though age has no real bearing on seniority, age and seniority ARE congruent. Surely even you, Desiree, can see and understand that.

Do you clowns even read what u write? This is why dfr2 will be a slam dunk. The facts don't support your position so you make up facts that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue. So if as you say "age as no real bearing on seniority" Why do you clowns make such a chart to defend your position in a S-E-N-I-O-R-T-Y dispute? This is why you are coward clowns without integrity or honor.

 

[KTM300]

Do you clowns even read what u write? This is why dfr2 will be a slam dunk. The facts don't support your position so you make up facts that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue. So if as you say "age as no real bearing on seniority" Why do you clowns make such a chart to defend your position in a S-E-N-I-O-R-T-Y dispute? This is why you are coward clowns without integrity or honor.

Oh Desiree....I would rather be a clown than a fool, an ignorant fool at that!

 

[crazystnic]

You clowns are truly delusional. How do you arrive at the fact Eric retires at 45% Awa stand
Alone? Also what job did the us 16 year guy bring to the merger? Again u r such lying spineless clowns that couldn't tell the truth if you tried. The usapa pamphlet is the perfect example, it doesn't counter the leonidas info with a single fact, instead they pull a chart out that compares a pilots age instead of real seniority. Clowns

*******************

many of the 16 year guys had over 10 years of longevity... and what they brought is the crux of this argument for me. They brought the attrition that the east has...
More than 1/2 of this East airline is gone in 7 years.. So yes that is what we brought.. the ability to be in the left seat in short order under separate ops.

 

[crazystnic]

Why not give you and your friends the same as you dish out?

Jim

********************

I didn't think you would answer the question.. Enough said.. we know you are now fishy.

 

[crazystnic]

Excuse me. I used the age 60 chart. Obviously if he goes till age 65 his retirement date would be 12-1-2036. As far as where he would be at age 50, well.....with the Nic putting him in front of many that were hired 16 years before him, he would be approx. at 15% on the list. With a DOH list, around 35%. Without any merger, and without AWA going out of business, 45%. However, with the merger, DOH or Nic, he retires at the top( within a couple % points) on the 330!

*********************

exactly .. well said.. that is the point. Ferguson has 8 years on me, so the point is the West owns this place in 12 years..... They sure are worked up and would not even consider a fence.. Reason being they know the NIC is their lottery ticket.