US Pilots Labor Discussion

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I understand that YOU think the formation of USAPA was unlawful. You are entirely entitled to that opinion. Mine differs, as you might expect. Unless either, or both of us, are wearing the robes of a federal judge and just playing pilot here in the forum, our opinions count for nothing.

I'm willing to let the courts settle it. I'm not willing to say my opinion will be theirs. I am willing to say the same thing about your opinion.

I have no doubt that this case will set important precedent no matter what the outcome.

Of course we all have an opinion, some more grounded in reality that others. But if you step back from the situation, and ask yourself, what important precedent would the courts like to set in this case, the inherent flaw in Seeham's plan becomes obvious.

Would the courts like to set the precedent that a union has the right to collective bargaining for its members? Why? That precedent is already set, of course they do.

Would the courts like to set further precedent as to what constitutes legal discrimination or what is meant by a unions duty of fair representation? Perhaps, but there is already plenty of case law on these topics, just none in our exact specific circumstance where a binding arbitration had occured amongst the membership.

Would the courts like to set the precedent that forming or changing a union offers a backdoor out of binding arbitration? Not a chance.

Bottom line is the NIC award is not going away until the West says so, and the West says "use anything other than the Nic, get sued, waste money, lose unquestionably ripe DFR". We now have our own precedent from Addington to back us up, and we know exactly when the DFR becomes ripe, without any chance of missing the statute of limitations.

You are right that this might just be my opinion, however, it seems to be the opinion of the company, its legal team, and all 4 federal judges that have worn the robes in usapa's encounters with the court system thus far.
 
Counting Off the Years and the Personal Losses While Knowing the Eventual Outcome

Unbiased Facts' Update for April 28, 2011: A "Must See" graphic at the link in this Quick Fact helps the reader contemplate the foreseeable future under the heel of USAPA. Titled; "Counting Off the Years and the Personal Losses While Knowing the Eventual Outcome". See for yourself where this wreck is taking us.

See Story
 
I see the circus is still in town and the clowns are in charge. Once again it is someone else’s fault. Is it just impossible for you east guys to accept responsibly for your actions? It is always someone else’s fault.

Usapa has full time flight pay loss guys working on the communication committee. That is all they have to do. Yet they are incapable of responding with a simple mailing. Leonidas a volunteer organization with guys flying full time can out class usapa.

Any bets this mailer when it finally gets here will be lame.

Has there been a trial that I don’t know about? There has not been a determination by the proper authorities that there was a violation of federal law. Unless there is a trial it is alleged. Someone needs to tell Cleary and the fools that they don’t get to decide federal law. Just like they don’t get to decide what is fair in a seniority integration.

I do have to say, usapa is entertaining. The incompetence is staggering. And these are the guys that you want negotiating a contract and arguing your grievance. the same guys that can't pull off a simple mailing.
At least they don't have to resort to stealing personal info to send a mailing! MM!
 
At least they don't have to resort to stealing personal info to send a mailing! MM!
Has a court decided anything was stolen? Have the cops showed up at anyone's door?

Just because usapa says something does not make it true.

Weak try at deflecting the incompetence though. Dues money at work or should I say not at work.
 
Since the 9th told you everything you want to hear, Leospanker should not be surprised that donations have dried up.

Can you have Leospanker send out another glossy brochure? I miss the scary ghost stories.

First, who said, or how do you know donations have dried up? The profit sharing was paid in March, and Cleary is still a complete idiot, so from what I understand donations where very much up in the first quarter of 2011.

I really do not know if issue 4 exist, will be mailed, distributed at the next BPR meeting or what? That is up to AOL. I personally think they should hand distribute them at a BPR meeting, and see if they can get Cleary to have them removed from the premises.

Back to your reading of the 9th's opinion. You quoted this...

"Forced to bargain for the Nicolau Award, any contract USAPA could negotiate would undoubtedly be rejected by its membership. By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified [that obviously won't include the NIC since it is not possible to achieve a ratified contract with the NIC].

In the entirety of it ruling the 9th held that,

1. if it ain't ripe, we cannot comment on merit.
2. it ain't ripe.

But lets paraphrase the portion you quoted.

"By deferring judicial intervention" (by kicking this can down the road), "we leave usapa to bargain in good faith"(not ask for DOH and hang the company out to dry in a hybrid DFRII case) pursuant to its DFR"(usapa must represent the West who has a binding arbitration result that ain't going away) with the interest of all members in mind"(gotta appease the east as well in order to reach an agreeable contract), under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR, once a contract is ratified"(statute of limitations clock starts upon contract ratification, and if the West does not buy off on usapa's seniority integration scheme, the DFR usapa will lose will be very painful, an obvious warning).

See, just as legitimate an interpretation as yours. Actually, my reading is much more likely because I read "bargain in good faith" as meaning "bargain in good faith", where you and the usapa supporters have no idea or intention of "bargaining in good faith", or what that actually means. Further, there is no one willing to bargain with a reneging group of malcontents, so it is a pointless exercise in futility.

Have I mentioned lately that the Nic is alive and well, sitting on Parker's desk, awaiting implementation in a Joint CBA?
 
At least they don't have to resort to stealing personal info to send a mailing! MM!

MM...it is well known that usapa stole the West pilots info from ALPA, prior to their election.

Just part of the illegal dual unionism practices the scumbags who founded usapa engaged in.

BTW...why was PHL put into trusteeship?????
 
My obligation to my union is intact! Speaking of fair representation where is your DFR for Parker not giving the WEST pilots LIFELOCK,? MM! Man up junior demand your lifelock!

Why would anybody want lifelock?

But if usapa is willing to file the grievence, and spend the money on the West to get lifelock, how about we spend usapa's money on a DFR lawsuit for failing to let MIGs attend an open meeting, publically accusing MIGs of illegal activity, intentionally creating a hostile working enviroment for West MIGs, etc. etc. etc.

That way usapa can pay both sides upfront, instead of owing it to the West for forcing us to sue them.
 
My obligation to my union is intact! Speaking of fair representation where is your DFR for Parker not giving the WEST pilots LIFELOCK,? MM! Man up junior demand your lifelock!
How about you call the president of this union an east pilot and demand action. It is usapa that is not representing the west not the company.

How about you learn what a DFR is.

Isn't about time you retire? You are older than all of the west pilots right.
 
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