US Pilots Labor Discussion

[trevrep]

US Airways Steve Crimi Freedom SCAB (in some peoples minds).

You are naive.

Your brought this issue of a scab up, I will respond, thank you.

Birds of a feather..........

Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs Listed
Australian Summary AFAP 89, 85 America West & Braniff Scabs
Century Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus Far
Continental Summary CAL 83 1,996 Scabs listed
Eastern Summary EAL 89 2,253 Scabs Listed
National Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 total
Northwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listed
Pan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listed
Prinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listed
Rio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listed
Southern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listed
TWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listed
United Summary UAL 85 837 Scabs listed

ual and cal have the most former scabs than any other airline, on their list.

The recall is still an open issue, those are the votes thus far.

ual pilots are impotent to do anything in the future.

 

[cleardirect]

You imply magically that if not for USAPA things would be different but truth be told things would be no different if you still had ALPA. USAPA has been engaged with US Airways with west pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways uses the disunity. Had ALPA survived, they would have been engaged with US Airways with at least a couple thousand East pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways would have used that disunity in exactly the same fashion. Just be clear that USAPA has done as well as ALPA would of and at least they don't have the history of rolling over at every turn.

Now if you want to blame this all on the Nicalou award or the lack of accepting it, or the lack of accepting the proposals your previous union came up with at Wye River, that is an entirely different argument. Simply stating that you are not unified would ring true under any union name you could attach to yourselves and the negotiating impediments that cause.

What exactly is it that the west are are doing to fight usapa at every turn? Other than not showing up to walk in circle in PHL or CLT. BTW about 3000 east pilots did not show up either. What is the west doing to stop the contract?

ALPA had 26-27 section T/A'ed before you guys voted them off. We were closer before usapa than we are today.

 

[luvthe9]

Just wondering why you question Jetz so much when you didn't question the "New Zealand" pilot or the "works for another airline and is based in SFO" pilot? A double standard?

luv, you've been here long enough to know why Jetz comes around these parts. Barrister can be somewhat forgiven as he's a newbie.

Jim

There was no question to Jetz, I was reponding to someone else, you have been around here long enough to know the difference, don't you think?

 

[BoeingBoy]

There was no question to Jetz, I was reponding to someone else, you have been around here long enough to know the difference, don't you think?

I was mainly replying to Barrister, but also to your post following his - "Do you really think he works for United? even the UAL guys don't go on their own board that much" - which sounded like you also don't think Jetz is a UA pilot. You've been around here long enough to know that Jetz works for UA and what circumstances lead him to visit here.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What exactly is it that the west are are doing to fight usapa at every turn? Other than not showing up to walk in circle in PHL or CLT. BTW about 3000 east pilots did not show up either. What is the west doing to stop the contract?

ALPA had 26-27 section T/A'ed before you guys voted them off. We were closer before usapa than we are today.

Ye like your closeout session more BS! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Well at least there's one thing to look forward to.

Besides your retirement?

 

[N924PS]

Besides your retirement?

I was hoping you would fly my last trip with me.

The finish line is in sight, and it will be a pleasure to retire from this train wreck. If it only lasts just a few more years.

 

[Zone5]

You imply magically that if not for USAPA things would be different but truth be told things would be no different if you still had ALPA. USAPA has been engaged with US Airways with west pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways uses the disunity. Had ALPA survived, they would have been engaged with US Airways with at least a couple thousand East pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways would have used that disunity in exactly the same fashion. Just be clear that USAPA has done as well as ALPA would of and at least they don't have the history of rolling over at every turn.

Now if you want to blame this all on the Nicalou award or the lack of accepting it, or the lack of accepting the proposals your previous union came up with at Wye River, that is an entirely different argument. Simply stating that you are not unified would ring true under any union name you could attach to yourselves and the negotiating impediments that cause.

True enough! The NIC would never have been voted for by the East, had it been included in an ALPA generated contract. If USAPA had never materialized, we would still be at odds with each other over the NIC, the issue would still not be ripe, the company would not offer up the amount of money to get the East to go for the NIC and "Team Tempe" would still be reaping the benefits of a divided pilot force. Remember, both the West and the East would have had to separately ratify an ALPA contract, for it to have passed. There would NEVER have been enough East votes to ratify an ALPA contract with the NIC in it.

seajay

 

[nic4us]

True enough! The NIC would never have been voted for by the East, had it been included in an ALPA generated contract.........

.....There would NEVER have been enough East votes to ratify an ALPA contract with the NIC in it.

seajay

So ironic that voting in usapa, and trying to remove West influence, sealed the deal.

usapa=Nic or nothing.

 

[aquagreen73s]

So ironic that voting in usapa, and trying to remove West influence, sealed the deal.

usapa=Nic or nothing.

Even with a joint contract, we would have had paycuts back in '08 when oil was at $147. Now oil is headed back up again.

There's no way Doug is going to do anything that increases costs. Can't say that I blame him.

 

[Zone5]

So ironic that voting in usapa, and trying to remove West influence, sealed the deal.

usapa=Nic or nothing.

The West NEVER had enough "influence" (even under the terms of the then version of ALPA merger policy; separate ratification by each group) to get the East to support the NIC! It has nothing to do with USAPA, ALPA, SLAPA, RAPA or DAPA. It has everything (and still does) to do with the "perceived" unfairness of the NIC by a large majority of the East. We would still be where we are today, WW-I style trench warfare. The only "winners" being the munitions manufacturers, aka the lawyers.

seajay

 

[Phoenix]

Do you really think he works for United? even the UAL guys don't go on their own board that much.

Well darn... and I thought he was representative of all the pilots of all the other airlines in the industry that supposedly think East pilots are lower than whale dung. Now I have to search for a real pilot from another airline that hates us enough to come our board and show us they give a rats patooie about the victimhood of the West beloved pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've said it before so I'll say it again. Jetz is a UA pilot. While I don't know Jetz personally, we do have a common friend. Any of you that have been here long enough to remember CM's seemingly monthly "transaction with UA where US is the buyer" posts know that that is what initially brought Jetz here.

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

The West NEVER had enough "influence" (even under the terms of the then version of ALPA merger policy; separate ratification by each group) to get the East to support the NIC! It has nothing to do with USAPA, ALPA, SLAPA, RAPA or DAPA. It has everything (and still does) to do with the "perceived" unfairness of the NIC by a large majority of the East. We would still be where we are today, WW-I style trench warfare. The only "winners" being the munitions manufacturers, aka the lawyers.

seajay

You're half right. The winners will be those with the most amount of time to wait this out.

 

[Zone5]

You're half right. The winners will be those with the most amount of time to wait this out.

I guess that's better than being "half wrong". Enough attrition would eventually yield enough new hire and West votes to take control. The likelihood of US Airways remaining a "stand alone carrier" that long is remote. Time indeed will tell.

seajay