US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

We have learned to live with our contract. How about you? Tell me, what big improvement was usapa going to get for the west pilots? Couple bucks an hour. But offset that with less benefits and higher insurance costs? Remember Lee Seham saying for labor peace usapa would accept a cost neutral contract and DOH?

LOA 93 is all you are ever going to get until you guys give up on DOH or have it imposed on you. usapa is incapable of delivering a contract.

This may or may not be the high water mark of my career. I still have time to make up for you east pilots mistake. How about you?

But this marks your low water mark of your career. And here is where you are going to stay. So far 8 years on a BK contract bottom of the industry. Soon that memory of being the top will fade and it will be nothing more than a story like high school football, remember when? Very soon you will live longer at the bottom then you lived at the top. The sad thing is that you all have elected to do it to yourselves.

I guess it's true you can't fix stupid.

In 2 days it will be the 3rd year anniversary of usapa. What have they accomplished so far? It is going to be another 3-4-5 years before we see a contract here. I am good with that. Are you?

Then stay where we are. You admit you will get nothing of a raise anyway. There will be a large number of east upgrades, and moves to larger equipment-resulting in large raises. That is unstoppable due to the retirements. So be it. My bet is this company will not exist in its' present form outside of 2 yrs. So you are most likely never going to see a contract with Parker. Divided and conquered. Have a good weekend.

 

[Black Swan]

What kind of alpa shill gives usapa it's first grand? That's what the web site author did, according to his letter. The way I read it, Captain C basically stays with all your high points, but departs in that he doesn't feel it's right to just treat the west like Cleary does. How horrible, I know. As a west pilot I can respect what Captain C says. I think Cleary is in no danger personally, he's got a spell on you all. No one has stood up to him with any real results yet, I don't expect any different, at least for the time being.

Just an observation. The west pilots underestimated the east resolve and frustration with ALPA and Nic. The underestimation resulted in ALPA being removed. You continue to underestimate and not understand east stance with Nic. I am sure you are just as dug in with your stance. I am telling you there is very little anger at Cleary. Think what you want, but there is more anger at the company than Cleary. There is more anger with Leonidas and Ferguson now than anything with Cleary. The information theft was a real eye opener for any east pilot on the fence. They were made abundantly aware of the lengths Ferguson and Leonidas will go to. That move was a huge mistake for Leonidas. The east pilots are watching closely how Parker handles this. If he does not take appropriate action, Cleary will come out and unify the east pilots even more and make them more aware than they already are of the fact they are fighting a two front war. The company and Leonidas. Cleary will easily retain his position. He could easily be re elected if he chooses. He will not run again.

 

[767jetz]

The recall is still an open issue, those are the votes thus far.

Wrong again, oh ignorant one. You are really striking out these days. No surprise that you can't admit your error though. That's par for the course for a liar who spouts off with no proof and no understanding of the facts. Which is exactly why your words are irrelevant and no one listens to you.

Here it is again, for everyone to see how wrong you are:


"those on the MEC who favored recall did not have the votes to recall..."

"Deferring the Agenda Item for the recall of the Master Chairman in essence gives the MEC the same ability that it always has, as a motion to recall an MEC Officer can be placed on the agenda of a special MEC meeting and is in order at any regular MEC meeting at any time."

Deferring it means they lost the vote. A motion to recall is ALWAYS an open issue since it can ALWAYS be an agenda item. The votes are not there and there's nothing you can do or say that changes that. Sorry, you lose.

As for scabs, your post does nothing but redirect attention from your desire to scab at UA if we strike by December. Your lack of a denial is proof. Anything to fly a UA widebody. We know the truth now. Thanks for confirming it. Looks like there will be at least one more name on that list, liar-scab-anonymous user-sumadarson.

 

[sumadarson]

Wrong again, oh ignorant one. You are really striking out these days. No surprise that you can't admit your error though. That's par for the course for a liar who spouts off with no proof and no understanding of the facts. Which is exactly why your words are irrelevant and no one listens to you.


As for scabs, your post does nothing but redirect attention from your desire to scab at UA if we strike by December. Your lack of a denial is proof. Anything to fly a UA widebody. We know the truth now. Thanks for confirming it. Looks like there will be at least one more name on that list, liar-scab-anonymous user-sumadarson.

The recall vote was deferred, it was not voted out.

You brought the issue of scabbing up remember. I did not.

There are no East pilots on the scab list and there never will be. I only see united airlines, continental and america west pilots.

ual pilots rationalize anything that is good for them.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Wrong again, oh ignorant one. You are really striking out these days. No surprise that you can't admit your error though. That's par for the course for a liar who spouts off with no proof and no understanding of the facts. Which is exactly why your words are irrelevant and no one listens to you.

Here it is again, for everyone to see how wrong you are:


"those on the MEC who favored recall did not have the votes to recall..."

"Deferring the Agenda Item for the recall of the Master Chairman in essence gives the MEC the same ability that it always has, as a motion to recall an MEC Officer can be placed on the agenda of a special MEC meeting and is in order at any regular MEC meeting at any time."

Deferring it means they lost the vote. A motion to recall is ALWAYS an open issue since it can ALWAYS be an agenda item. The votes are not there and there's nothing you can do or say that changes that. Sorry, you lose.

As for scabs, your post does nothing but redirect attention from your desire to scab at UA if we strike by December. Your lack of a denial is proof. Anything to fly a UA widebody. We know the truth now. Thanks for confirming it. Looks like there will be at least one more name on that list, liar-scab-anonymous user-sumadarson.

Your real concern ought to be the Ex-TWA pilots. Plenty of them riding the bottom of the AA list or furloughed with an ongoing suit against ALPA. If I am not mistaken discovery is over and the trial begins in June. I know more than a few and to a person they hate ALPA and have expressed no problem with crossing an ALPA picket line. A thousand or so are out of work and you really ought to be looking in that direction.

 

[cactusboy53]

Then stay where we are. You admit you will get nothing of a raise anyway. There will be a large number of east upgrades, and moves to larger equipment-resulting in large raises. That is unstoppable due to the retirements. So be it. My bet is this company will not exist in its' present form outside of 2 yrs. So you are most likely never going to see a contract with Parker. Divided and conquered. Have a good weekend.

You see...there's your problem. The upgrades that you refer to (while based in PHL, CLT, & DCA) do not belong to you exclusively. ALL of the upgrades belong to ALL of us. Arbitrator Nicolau used the upgrades at all bases as part of the combined seniority solution.

Delay as you might, the legal system will finish this (and not in the way that you might think). Have a great morning. CB

 

[PullUp]

You see...there's your problem. The upgrades that you refer to (while based in PHL, CLT, & DCA) do not belong to you exclusively. ALL of the upgrades belong to ALL of us. Arbitrator Nicolau used the upgrades at all bases as part of the combined seniority solution.

Delay as you might, the legal system will finish this (and not in the way that you might think). Have a great morning. CB

Agree that all the seats in the system should be allocated fairly to the combined pilot population. Where we disagree is the "fairness" of Nic's list and how it allocates senior seats to junior pilots, thus economically disadvantaging the east.

But, how long can this go on? Eventually the company will want to acquire airplanes not included in the current contracts...what resolution is there? Does USAPA sign more side letters? I hope not...the company's stance has been all along to tie any workrule changes to a combined contract. So be it.

Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

Then stay where we are. You admit you will get nothing of a raise anyway. There will be a large number of east upgrades, and moves to larger equipment-resulting in large raises. That is unstoppable due to the retirements. So be it. My bet is this company will not exist in its' present form outside of 2 yrs. So you are most likely never going to see a contract with Parker. Divided and conquered. Have a good weekend.

Finally you are admitting that what should be the primary job of a union to get an improved contract. usapa has failed miserably and will continue to fail. OK glad we got that straight.

We told you guys 3 years ago usapa was not going to get a contract. If you think that $125 an hour is a large raise good for you. Enjoy LOA 93. As I said the west can live with our contract. We were not going to get anything anyway. It is the east that is giving up the bulk of the benefit.

So the company will not be the same 2 years from now. Which means that usapa's little worthless C&R mean nothing. We end up with DOH and stapled to someone else's list and we get no money. No thanks.

Correction we will never see a contract with usapa. The next merger it will not be usapa at the table.

 

[crazystnic]

You see...there's your problem. The upgrades that you refer to (while based in PHL, CLT, & DCA) do not belong to you exclusively. ALL of the upgrades belong to ALL of us. Arbitrator Nicolau used the upgrades at all bases as part of the combined seniority solution.

Delay as you might, the legal system will finish this (and not in the way that you might think). Have a great morning. CB

********************************************

well they certainly don't belong to the west until this gets resolved.
so stop counting our seats..... you look more greedy than we already know.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Finally you are admitting that what should be the primary job of a union to get an improved contract. usapa has failed miserably and will continue to fail. OK glad we got that straight.

We told you guys 3 years ago usapa was not going to get a contract. If you think that $125 an hour is a large raise good for you. Enjoy LOA 93. As I said the west can live with our contract. We were not going to get anything anyway. It is the east that is giving up the bulk of the benefit.

So the company will not be the same 2 years from now. Which means that usapa's little worthless C&R mean nothing. We end up with DOH and stapled to someone else's list and we get no money. No thanks.

Correction we will never see a contract with usapa. The next merger it will not be usapa at the table.

You imply magically that if not for USAPA things would be different but truth be told things would be no different if you still had ALPA. USAPA has been engaged with US Airways with west pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways uses the disunity. Had ALPA survived, they would have been engaged with US Airways with at least a couple thousand East pilots fighting them every step of the way and US Airways would have used that disunity in exactly the same fashion. Just be clear that USAPA has done as well as ALPA would of and at least they don't have the history of rolling over at every turn.

Now if you want to blame this all on the Nicalou award or the lack of accepting it, or the lack of accepting the proposals your previous union came up with at Wye River, that is an entirely different argument. Simply stating that you are not unified would ring true under any union name you could attach to yourselves and the negotiating impediments that cause.

 

[Barrister]

Wrong again, oh ignorant one. You are really striking out these days. No surprise that you can't admit your error though. That's par for the course for a liar who spouts off with no proof and no understanding of the facts. Which is exactly why your words are irrelevant and no one listens to you.

Here it is again, for everyone to see how wrong you are:


"those on the MEC who favored recall did not have the votes to recall..."

"Deferring the Agenda Item for the recall of the Master Chairman in essence gives the MEC the same ability that it always has, as a motion to recall an MEC Officer can be placed on the agenda of a special MEC meeting and is in order at any regular MEC meeting at any time."

Deferring it means they lost the vote. A motion to recall is ALWAYS an open issue since it can ALWAYS be an agenda item. The votes are not there and there's nothing you can do or say that changes that. Sorry, you lose.

As for scabs, your post does nothing but redirect attention from your desire to scab at UA if we strike by December. Your lack of a denial is proof. Anything to fly a UA widebody. We know the truth now. Thanks for confirming it. Looks like there will be at least one more name on that list, liar-scab-anonymous user-sumadarson.

Just curious...why is a UAL/CO guy on our web board calling people a liar....not
that you can't post here .....just wondering WHY YOU ARE SO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED !!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[luvthe9]

Just curious...why is a UAL/CO guy on our web board calling people a liar....not
that you can't post here .....just wondering WHY YOU ARE SO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED !!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Do you really think he works for United? even the UAL guys don't go on their own board that much.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just curious...why is a UAL/CO guy on our web board calling people a liar....not
that you can't post here .....just wondering WHY YOU ARE SO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED !!!!!

Do you really think he works for United? even the UAL guys don't go on their own board that much.

Just wondering why you question Jetz so much when you didn't question the "New Zealand" pilot or the "works for another airline and is based in SFO" pilot? A double standard?

luv, you've been here long enough to know why Jetz comes around these parts. Barrister can be somewhat forgiven as he's a newbie.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Seem that anonymous user Nosum stuck his head out early today. Must have wet his Depends and needed changing...

Where's that proof anonymous user?

Jim

 

[N924PS]

He will not run again.

Well at least there's one thing to look forward to.